The balance team has honestly reached levels of WTF I did not know exists this year for worlds.

Irelia Bot·Sep 28, 2018·125 votes·21,567 views

People said it would be better once ghostcrawler was gone but if anything it has only gotten worse.

91 Comments

SalronSep 28, 201847 votes

Wow it's almost like Ghostcrawler wasn't in charge of 100% of balance changes and isn't the evil mastermind the boards made him out to be. So whos going to be the next scapegoat?

Meddler?

ShadWoooSep 28, 201824 votes

It is actually the balance team itself what is that evil. This institution corrupts minds of the workers, threathens their families and force them to apply terrible ideas and changed upon us.

The actual peoples are innocent!

GayFluffyUnicornSep 28, 20187 votes

Look at what he did t blizzard and compare it to league maybe you notice something.

ZaFishboneSep 28, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Wow it's almost like Ghostcrawler wasn't in charge of 100% of balance changes and isn't the evil mastermind the boards made him out to be. So whos going to be the next scapegoat?

Meddler?

And people wonder why the balance team barely listens to boards anymore.

lolipopevelynnSep 28, 20184 votes

{quoted}

Wow it's almost like Ghostcrawler wasn't in charge of 100% of balance changes and isn't the evil mastermind the boards made him out to be. So whos going to be the next scapegoat?

Meddler?

Yes. Meddler is the next logical step.

Lil Homie bustaSep 28, 20182 votes

I can see through the lies of the jedi.

Don't you turn the table against me!

JohnnyNeverSinsSep 28, 201835 votes

We need a Morello. Nerf everything.

Lil Homie bustaSep 28, 20186 votes

item 3165

Here

Unstoppable MonkSep 28, 20186 votes

item 3165 Take two, just to be sure.

Tahminatrix Sep 28, 201826 votes

I recall ghostcrawler being one of the lesser evils and was actually keeping a lot in check.

I could be wrong tho.

Irelia BotSep 28, 201825 votes

[{quoted}](name=Super Cow Swag,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TvNwXy0w,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-09-28T05:00:42.817+0000)

I recall ghostcrawler being one of the lesser evils and was actually keeping a lot in check.

Meddler you have some explaining to do.

Dope SoloSep 28, 20182 votes

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100711135419/muppet/images/9/9c/Swedish_poser.jpg

Bork bork bork!

DrCyanideSep 28, 20185 votes

item 3153 !

haaaaaaalpSep 28, 201830 votes

Morello did a better job overall of keeping unhealthy stuff out of the game.

He was the one who sidelined poppy until her rework. The current team is taking a bit too long to do the same for akali who faces a lot of the same problems.

JanakinSep 28, 201821 votes

Yesterday, kha'zix dealing 1600 damage to our non-isolated adc... Rito, thank you so much for buffing him.

CµpcakkeSep 28, 201820 votes

Its like what tyler1 said, the content creator team of riot are amazing they really know what they're doing. But the balance team really need to get their shit together. [zombie-brand-clap]

Arthem69Sep 28, 201816 votes

Hey remember the juggernauts? Yeah that was the worst time in my opinion.

Irelia BotSep 28, 201881 votes

{quoted}

Hey remember the juggernauts? Yeah that was the worst time in my opinion.

The juggernaut patch was the patch that started the decline of the game.

ZeromatsuSep 28, 201820 votes

This whole concept of "let's rework whole classes just because why not" was doomed from the beginning.

A lot of champions that were playable atleast got ruined completely or are weaker than before. But what annoys me most about dividing champions into classes is the itemization. Why the hell do you need to make items for whole classes, instead of champion strengths/roles like before.

Before we had "supporter" which was everything... Tanks, Enchanter and even some damage dealer. They had few items that fit the role. Now we divide the items into subclasses (ardent censer/redemption for enchanter, solari/knight vow for tanks) because it is "better". All it did was create more imbalance.

Same goes for every class. Why do ad assasins need lethality to function?

Auz the RipperSep 28, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Same goes for every class. Why do ad assasins need lethality to function?

I've never gotten for hate for lethality, the change was a straight up nerf to assassins. Lethality is way weaker than armor penetration ever was.

ZeromatsuSep 28, 20188 votes

First: This is not about what's better (lethality vs armor pen). But: even if armor pen is better, there is a lot more lethality than there was armor pen back then. So even if it might be weaker early game (late game it has same value) you get more of it, so it balances out. AND the items not only have lethality but also provide everything assassins need like extra dmg or vision control. Armor pen was a generalist stat back then that almost every (melee) ad champ could use.

Second: I just said ad assassins need lethality to function, that means they HAVE to build it no matter what. And that's the problem. It is a stat designed for assassins, not for everyone. If you dare to skip the lethality items you troll. Back then you could vary your build. Hell Zed used to rush botrk. Now it feels like this: Get long swords, build serrated dirk, finish item... repeat till you have all lethality items you need and have fun one shotting everyone.

The old armor pen (especially with black cleaver) was built by many champions mostly top laners. So yeah, I hate lethality, because I don't play one of these assassins or some of the few champions that can abuse it like miss fortune.

Critmaster GarenSep 28, 20188 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TvNwXy0w,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-09-28T05:38:40.448+0000)

The juggernaut patch was the patch that started the decline of the game.

the juggernaut patch affected and buffed 4 champions who were garbage tier, and the game was chaotic for 3 weeks. by the end of season 5 after they had been balanced out, the game was in the best state it had ever seen, with every single class being viable and relatively balanced towards each other. only mages were a bit lacking at the time and needed some work on their items.

darius was a contested pick at worlds in season 7, but the patches that worlds are played on are usually already month old at that time, like how the worlds patch this year is going to be 8.19, and the game will have moved on by 4 or 5 patches when worlds are coming up. when darius was strong at worlds, he was already fine in solo que for a long time.

the marksman patch was the first one that overdid it, and buffed an entire class of already strong champions. followed by multiple class updates in too rapid succession, before they dealt with the balance issues of the previous updates.

like juggers were just brough up to par with the rest of the game, but the marksman update was where the real damage creep in this game began.

marksmen were still broken when they shipped the mage update, and mages and marksmen were still in a chaotic state when they followed with the tank and assassin updates.

3TWarriorSep 29, 20181 votes

nasus was garbage tier in the 40+ minute meta?

mordekaiser's 58% average winrate by those who learned how to play him... the only healthy thing that came about from mordekaiser's change is that they made it where he's no longer a "I beat all but these champs and those are skill matchups" champion but I was overall fair despite how I crushed top lane

Sion turned out well but I think he happened before it

and I don't remember who else were changed

Critmaster GarenSep 29, 20182 votes

{quoted}

nasus was garbage tier in the 40+ minute meta?

mordekaiser's 58% average winrate by those who learned how to play him... the only healthy thing that came about from mordekaiser's change is that they made it where he's no longer a "I beat all but these champs and those are skill matchups" champion but I was overall fair despite how I crushed top lane

Sion turned out well but I think he happened before it

and I don't remember who else were changed

sion wasnt even part of the juggernaut update, hes classified as a tank. neither was nasus, lol.

it was darius, garen, skarner and morde. 4 champions who got reworked.

and all of those were garbage tier before the juggernaut update. even IF morde had 58% winrate at the time, it was only because like 2 or 3 people played him that day and happened to win about 2 out of 3 games. the champion was utter trash.

the juggernaut update didnt have a large impact on the game in the long run. skarner was ridiculously overtuned for 2 days before they hotfixed him, and they spent like 3 weeks to balance these champions out, before the game was back to normal.

i remember some marksmen like kog were still buffed and nerfed back and forth 3 month after the marksmen update. they massively buffed the entire class for no reason, when they were already mandatory and carrying games before.

i understand what they tried to do with them. the kit reworks in themselves were fine, to make them more distinct from each other, and not all of them just minor variations of right click damage (which they still kindof are). but those kit reworks came with straight up buffs that were completely unjustified.

the marksman update was what started the decline of the game.

WyrmbladeSep 28, 20183 votes

I remember right before that patch the game was so good I actually gave money to Riot. At no point since that patch have I felt an even remotely similar feeling.

SwiftKitten88Sep 28, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TvNwXy0w,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-09-28T05:38:40.448+0000)

The juggernaut patch was the patch that started the decline of the game.

are u trying to imply that 8.16 was a bad patch?

as that was the best patch riot has ever done WELL over a year

MrGerundSep 28, 201811 votes

welcome to worlds! where riot wont care about you and me and our elo!

someone should keep track of riots mistakes, have we reached 1000 yet? that'll the big one i'm sure, to celebrate!

Destello AzulSep 28, 20189 votes

Meddler has the same mentality as Ghostshitter. It was obviously nothing would gonna change.

JoeAnarchySep 28, 20185 votes

ghostcrawler only recently left. it's gonna take some time before the balance team works out the issues he left behind

Irelia BotSep 28, 20187 votes

{quoted}

ghostcrawler only recently left. it's gonna take some time before the balance team works out the issues he left behind

A lot of changes are highly reactionary within the past couple patches. And there is no reason to be buffing champs like Kass who would have likely shown up at worlds already.

JoeAnarchySep 28, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TvNwXy0w,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-09-28T05:50:19.031+0000)

A lot of changes are highly reactionary within the past couple patches. And there is no reason to be buffing champs like Kass who would have likely shown up at worlds already.

well to be fair this patch is specifically balanced around worlds, and the following patches will be geared more toward casual play again.

we just have to accept that once a year there will be a patch that only cares about worlds and not casual players

Minimac2000Sep 28, 20189 votes

{quoted}

well to be fair this patch is specifically balanced around worlds, and the following patches will be geared more toward casual play again.

we just have to accept that once a year there will be a patch that only cares about worlds and not casual players

Yeah, but tahm and sejuani are gonna be left in the dumpster after worlds anyway because the balance team hates them, yay There was a verb for that I think.... Oh yeah... sejuani'd

CeazaruSep 28, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, but tahm and sejuani are gonna be left in the dumpster after worlds anyway because the balance team hates them, yay There was a verb for that I think.... Oh yeah... sejuani'd

Maybe you should ask LCS players to stop being so effective with Tahm and Sej then because the only reason they got nerfed was pro play

Minimac2000Sep 28, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Maybe you should ask LCS players to stop being so effective with Tahm and Sej then because the only reason they got nerfed was pro play

Yeah, I hate it when LCS players play tahm and sejuani so effectively that they hover at almost exactly 50% winrate in pro where they are supposedly "broken" so dang unbalanced. Definitely understand nerfs now. But hey they need nerfs and not the kai'sa, varus, irelia, kindred, graves, thresh we are about to see 10 times in a row /major sarcasm

CeazaruSep 28, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, I hate it when LCS players play tahm and sejuani so effectively that they hover at almost exactly 50% winrate in pro where they are supposedly "broken" so dang unbalanced. Definitely understand nerfs now. But hey they need nerfs and not the kai'sa, varus, irelia, kindred, graves, thresh we are about to see 10 times in a row /major sarcasm

I know it sucks man. My main Yorick was nerfed after being played two times in pro play and won both games. Can’t let pro players learn how to play against a champ who is finally viable since his rework came out but let kai’sa be a dominant adc for months along side Lucian and Jihn. Graves has been good for a while now.

Minimac2000Sep 28, 20183 votes

{quoted}

I know it sucks man. My main was nerfed after being played two times in pro play and won both games. Can’t let pro players learn how to play against a champ who is finally viable since his rework came out but let kai’sa be a dominant adc for months along side Lucian and Jihn. Graves has been good for a while now.

Riperino yorick yeah, that truly sucks I feel your pain dood. Most likely riperino urgot immediately after worlds when he's not even strong lol

KazekibaSep 28, 20181 votes

MonkeyKing

Unstoppable MonkSep 29, 20182 votes

Any reason why you're posting an NA pro team?

KazekibaOct 1, 20182 votes

You deserve way more credit for that post, good work.

Moons of JupiterSep 28, 20182 votes

{quoted}

well to be fair this patch is specifically balanced around worlds, and the following patches will be geared more toward casual play again.

we just have to accept that once a year there will be a patch that only cares about worlds and not casual players But it has felt like patches have been geared to pros all year long. Already a lot of people aren't playing anymore because of how awful it feels. why would we even watch worlds if Riot has been fostering a disinterest in the game in general with their balance practices ?

I've been waiting for Rift to feel playable again for this whole season.

RagnarsRockSep 28, 20185 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TvNwXy0w,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-09-28T04:30:09.940+0000)

People said it would be better once ghostcrawler was gone but if anything it has only gotten worse.

This game is no longer about fun. It's about how OP we can get so the games go quicker.

Pika FoxSep 28, 20182 votes

Its because none of you could balance a scale, let a lone a game.

Unstoppable MonkSep 28, 20189 votes

I'm pretty sure there's a few people that could do better than HURR DERP BUFF Khazix , AHRI IS FINE 54% WR HURR DERP DERP BUFF DARIUS

Pika FoxSep 28, 20181 votes

Sounds to me like you dont know balance.

Unstoppable MonkSep 28, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TvNwXy0w,comment-id=000f00000000,timestamp=2018-09-28T19:28:46.689+0000)

Sounds to me like you dont know balance.

I've been right before in speculations in video games, but not quite yet to the professional level. The plebeian response to what is essentially something they are incapable of perceiving themselves while believing they are above average is mostly the same and sounds exactly like you right now.

As far as my viewpoints go, a lot of the time they're closer to master+ tier players and developed independently. So maybe do something intelligible instead of measuring your e-penis while posting on the league boards about your little peanuts of wisdom that only sound good in your head.

Pika FoxSep 29, 20181 votes

Let me know when master tier players are leaders in the field of game balance and have gone to school specifically for game design, have all of riots internal metrics and have been in the room with rioters discussing balance and balance strategies.

Sorry, but if you think anyone is better suited to balance the game than the league balance team, youre delusional at best.

Unstoppable MonkSep 29, 20185 votes

Considering that league isn't the only video game team in the world that has industry professionals with consideration of game theory in mind, I'd say that the delusional one is yourself.

There's already groundwork for studio visits, although it's view-based for streamers naturally it will have master players. So you're already proven wrong by the very fallacy you try to stand on, not that you being wrong can convince you otherwise.

Pika FoxSep 29, 20181 votes

Lol, you failed the argument. None of them have access to riots internal data nor balance philosophy or the exact reasonings behind the changes. Whenever one of the boards balance elite silver 5 players complain and riot does decide to respond, they get shut down hard.

Unstoppable MonkSep 29, 20182 votes

So basically every professional, artist, gamemaker, etc. in existence is completely invalid except for rito according to you. This is despite literally the game existing in observance for years.

Seriously, no one sane would fucking believe the shit you are saying. It is completely fundamentally flawed, you might as well argue "because my dad said so" because you're just replacing dad with riot games.

Pika FoxSep 29, 20181 votes

Given they dont have riots internal metrics, correct, their opinions are worthless as they cannot construct any of real value.

Not to mention theres maybe like 5 globally in masters+ that dont already work for riot.