The Real Problem With Assassin's Dagger

Vekkna··1 votes·384 views

Everybody's focusing on the perfect storm that allows the proc to get a killing blow in a 1v1. That's an extremely myopic point of view. This is the real issue:

It effectively amplifies the damage from everyone attacking the target. So on ganks, roams, and picks, it will be far more difficult to survive. For example, let's say Talon roams bot. He blows up the enemy ADC without an AA while Talon's ADC (let's say MF) and support are attacking the enemy support (let's say Leona). Talon has no more CDs to blow on Leona, so he starts AAing her for minimal damage. Meanwhile, MF channels her ulti for 2 seconds and the support Sona uses her Q power chord.

For the sake of simplicity, we'll use even hypothetical numbers to get to the point. Leona has 2000 hp. Talon only did 300 damage to her. MF did 900. Sona did 400. The total is 1600 damage but Leona takes 2000 damage. Talon's item effectively increased his own damage by 75, but it increased MF's damage by 225 and Sona's damage by 100.

Herein lies the problem. This item single-handedly gives AD champs support utility throughout the entire game regardless of scaling/falling off or whether they are fed or behind. Assassins are designed with an element of feast or famine - feed or get fed. ADCs are designed to farm and outscale. By design, mages and supports trade mobility for utility. And by design, most fighters can fall back on building tanky.

Assassins are designed to be mobile, have jukes, and get kills. You counter this by coordinating with your team to shut them down and prevent the snowball. The same applies in bot lane; shut down the enemy ADC so your team is the one to outscale. Building Assassin's Dagger skirts around this design philosophy by allowing AD champs to simply support any fed player on the team by effectively increasing their allies' burst by 25%.

Having played assassins, I know how frustrating it can be to play from behind, and every game I play as an ADC is playing from behind. Maybe this is a good design addition that just looks super unhealthy from the outside? If that's the case, why are we giving AD champs tools to play from behind while AP assassins are stuck being nearly useless if they can't snowball? Discuss.

TL;DR: Item gives AD champs utility to play from behind, which is bad on classes designed/balanced around snowball and scaling.

4 Comments

Paletongue1 votes

For reference:

New Assassin Dagger Recipe: Serrated Dirk + B.F. Sword + ??? gold (over 3000 gold total, still fine tuning) +75 Attack Damage +5% Movement Speed UNIQUE Passive: +10 Armor Penetration UNIQUE Passive: Basic attacks on an enemy champion apply Nightfall (60 second cooldown). Nightfall: After 2 seconds, deal 25% of the target’s missing health as physical damage. If the target dies before Nightfall ends, the cooldown is refunded.

I'm not seeing the real issue with that.

The Nightfall proc lets assassins assassinate by giving them the killing blow. It isn't increasing MF and Sona's damage, just like Garen ult/Elise spider Q, Jinx ult, and Riven ult don't increase their allies damage. It simply does more damage if they are lower health, allowing an ASSASSIN to do their job.

Vekkna1 votes

I think you make a valid point, but I would argue that those champs are power budgeted for the utility in their kits. And 3/4 of your examples are champ ultimates. The last example is a champ without no ulti.

Your other point I'm not that sure about. If the AD mid is feeding and doing almost no damage, their Dagger isn't boosting their own damage by much. Rather, they follow their fed ally around and tagging their targets to effectively give their ally a 25% damage boost.

The question still remains as to whether assassins should be able to assassinate if they're shut down. If the answer is yes, why only AD assassins (and every other AD class)?

Paletongue1 votes

I listed those abilities specifically because they are easier to recall. If you really feel it necessary:

  • Ekko's W's passive deals % missing health damage to low health targets
  • Fizz's W deals % missing health to next three autoattacks
  • Morgana's W does increased damage based on enemies' missing health
  • Volibear's W does % missing health damage
  • Nidalee's cougar Q does % missing health damage on her next basic attack

Here's a pattern: they're (almost) all assassins. % missing health is used to execute, to finish the target off once they're already low.

These examples tend to be AP based champions, so in contrast, AD champions will be gaining their % based missing health from this new assassin item, made specifically for assassins to assassinate. Assassin.

If an assassin gets shut down, I don't think they should be 100-0ing by any means. But I also don't think that by losing lane, the assassin suddenly can't contribute to the team whatsoever. Besides, if they were shut down, would they have any aditional AD to back up their damage? Wouldn't the enemy team have enough gold to buy armor (which is calculated into the moonfall passive TWICE)?

Don't you think that a team coordinated enough to get an enemy's health low with the fed adc, then send an assassin in to finish the job deserve that kill? I'm not sure what else you would expect from a coordinated 2v1...

Meep Man1 votes

TL;DR Assassins are becoming more reliable with their burst.

I don't see a problem with this.

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