@Riot: Co-Op Champion?

SSmotzer·Nov 30, 2018·1 votes·1,636 views

https://media.giphy.com/media/JiPjfLI5usqA/source.gif

How would Riot go about tackling a co-op champion? Would it be like Cho'Gall and be a duo champ from the start? Would it be an end game event, like both players need to agree kinda deal at like level 10? Would it be temporary, or last until they die, or what? Would it be between a marksmen and support? How would skins work? How would gold between them work? Would they reward 2000 gold for being killed once they get a max bounty? Who is in control? Would they be ranged? Would they both have an attack or would one player be essentially disarmed? So many questions.

18 Comments

Elf0491Nov 30, 20184 votes

Simple answer: they wouldn't. It would break the game in so many ways, would guarantee massive headaches for years to come solely from that champion, and would probably be completely nonviable in an actual game.

SSmotzerNov 30, 20182 votes

Hasn't stopped Riot before.

Warlord RhinarkNov 30, 20182 votes

Broken as a champion and impossible to balance.

That's what it would be.

SSmotzerNov 30, 20181 votes

Hasn't stopped Riot before.

Warlord RhinarkNov 30, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Hasn't stopped Riot before.

This idea of "two champions in one" isn't exactly revolutionary.

The game has been out for over 9 years now. I'm sure Riot has thought of it at some point, but decided against it.

Probably for the better if you ask me.

SSmotzerNov 30, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Tph3Nocb,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2018-11-30T11:28:04.590+0000)

This idea of "two champions in one" isn't exactly revolutionary.

The game has been out for over 9 years now. I'm sure Riot has thought of it at some point, but decided against it.

Probably for the better if you ask me.

In the 9 years since LoL came out they haven't gotten controlled minions and pets to work how they want them to. Riot has a lot of technical things to work out before a co-op champion would even be viable, so yeah, they decided against it when it was a technical nightmare, but now maybe not so much.

Warlord RhinarkNov 30, 20182 votes

{quoted}

In the 9 years since LoL came out they haven't gotten controlled minions and pets to work how they want them to.

Controlled minions and pets worked perfectly all the way back in the original DOTA during the early 2000s.

It's probably a limitation of the engine they've decided to use.

Riot has a lot of technical things to work out before a co-op champion would even be viable, so yeah, they decided against it when it was a technical nightmare, but now maybe not so much.

Considering there has been absolutely no talk about such a thing nor indication that their technological advancements have skyrocketed whatsoever, they probably haven't worked out the technical issues.

And even if they do have the technology to do it, that doesn't mean it's a good idea.

Referring to the aforementioned "being impossible to balance".

SSmotzerNov 30, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Tph3Nocb,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2018-11-30T11:40:14.249+0000)

Considering there has been absolutely no talk about such a thing nor indication that their technological advancements have skyrocketed whatsoever, they probably haven't worked out the technical issues.

Well there was that huge technical overhaul they did to LoL 3 years ago.

When they went from code like this https://engineering.riotgames.com/sites/default/files/missile_flow_before.png

To code like this https://engineering.riotgames.com/sites/default/files/missile_flow_after.png

And champions do typically spend a few years in development... So.

And even if they do have the technology to do it, that doesn't mean it's a good idea.

Referring to the aforementioned "being impossible to balance".

Nothing is impossible and for the past few years Riot has been releasing champions who are "impossible to balance."

Warlord RhinarkNov 30, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Well there was that huge technical overhaul they did to LoL 3 years ago.

When they went from code like this https://engineering.riotgames.com/sites/default/files/missile_flow_before.png

To code like this https://engineering.riotgames.com/sites/default/files/missile_flow_after.png

And champions do typically spend a few years in development... So.

Usually not more than 3 years.

And I'm not going to pride myself as someone who knows a lot of code, but I do not think that the leap in technology you presented above translates into = "Co-op champions are now technically possible".

Nothing is impossible

False.

and for the past few years Riot has been releasing champions who are "impossible to balance."

And that sure has gotten a lot of positive reception hasn't it?

SSmotzerNov 30, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Tph3Nocb,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-11-30T14:30:12.704+0000)

Usually not more than 3 years.

Eh. It could be for a rework. I could think of a few champions who would narratively perfectly fit in a champion who can fuse together.

And I'm not going to pride myself as someone who knows a lot of code, but I do not think that the leap in technology you presented above translates into = "Co-op champions are now technically possible".

I mean, it was always technically possible, even from day one, it was just a nightmare to code properly. Now that the code is nice and neat, it would be far less of a nightmare to code.

False.

Debatable.

And that sure has gotten a lot of positive reception hasn't it?

On the boards?... No. Everywhere else? Yes. Neeko is shaping up to be a big crowd pleaser... even if the boards think she is the most op and just a sjw diversity quota.

I for one will happily get Neeko and her skin and play her substantially in the near future.

xDogMeatxNov 30, 20181 votes

I for one will happily get Neeko and her skin and play her substantially in the near future.

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

SSmotzerDec 1, 20181 votes

{quoted}

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

I Neeko. You Neeko. He- she- me... Neeko. Neeko; Neekoing; We'll have thee Neeko, Neekorama; Neekology; the study of Neeko.

Warlord RhinarkNov 30, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Eh. It could be for a rework.

A rework that's been in development for over 3 years?

Don't be silly.

I could think of a few champions who would narratively perfectly fit in a champion who can fuse together.

Don't.

Just don't.

I mean, it was always technically possible, even from day one, it was just a nightmare to code properly. Now that the code is nice and neat, it would be far less of a nightmare to code.

Not necessarily.

And even if not a nightmare to code, then a nightmare to balance.

Debatable.

There are always limits somewhere. Perhaps we haven't reached them yet, but they are there.

On the boards?... No. Everywhere else? Yes. Neeko is shaping up to be a big crowd pleaser... even if the boards think she is the most op and just a sjw diversity quota.

Based on what?

Redmercy reaction videos?

Popular League icons playing her on the PBE?

I for one will happily get Neeko and her skin and play her substantially in the near future.

This doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

SSmotzerDec 1, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Tph3Nocb,comment-id=000100000000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2018-11-30T16:54:57.385+0000)

A rework that's been in development for over 3 years?

Don't be silly.

Some champions were intended to get reworked coming out of beta but never did. Mundo even got reworked in the beta.

Not necessarily.

And even if not a nightmare to code, then a nightmare to balance.

Again, hasn't stopped Riot from releasing champions who are a nightmare to balance in the past.

There are always limits somewhere. Perhaps we haven't reached them yet, but they are there.

Based on what?

Redmercy reaction videos?

Popular League icons playing her on the PBE?

I was more thinking about the amount of Neeko related threads on the boards.

Warlord RhinarkDec 1, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Some champions were intended to get reworked coming out of beta but never did. Mundo even got reworked in the beta.

There's only 9 of the original 40 champions that haven't had a major update to their original conception coming out of beta.

Morgana Teemo Amumu Chogath Anivia Veigar Malphite Blitzcrank Corki

Morgana 's is coming up and it's been mentioned that they will only make very minor changes to the kit since it has held up so well over the years, so it will mostly be a visual update. Giving her the ability to merge with another champion is very much a major change, so we can rule her out.

So unless you can come with explanations as to how the other 8 champions could possibly fuse with someone else, you can't use the "reworks left over from beta" excuse.

Again, hasn't stopped Riot from releasing champions who are a nightmare to balance in the past.

40 wrongs don't make a right.

Eh

You're allowed to be optimistic, but you have to be realistic.

I was more thinking about the amount of Neeko related threads on the boards.

I was talking about the positivity regarding Neeko's release, not the negativity.

SSmotzerDec 1, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Tph3Nocb,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2018-12-01T10:05:14.263+0000)

's is coming up and it's been mentioned that they will only make very minor changes to the kit since it has held up so well over the years, so it will mostly be a visual update. Giving her the ability to merge with another champion is very much a major change, so we can rule her out.

Well, if Kayle wouldn't be in the game her rework would just be visual. Even Riot hinted that the interaction between Kayle and Morgana in their rework will be much more significant than Xayah and Rakan's. I mean, her fusing would not be a core component of her gameplay.

You're allowed to be optimistic, but you have to be realistic.

And this is realistic. HotS has a co-op champ, why can't League? It wouldn't be the first time Riot screwed themselves on balance to do something new. A Darkin fusing characters is realistic, we've seen Varus do it. Kayle and Morgana could have some weird variation of a Darkin going on. You gotta admit, it's possible.

Warlord RhinarkDec 1, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Well, if Kayle wouldn't be in the game her rework would just be visual.

Why does the fact that her sister is getting reworked alongside her mean that the two must fuse into one?

Even Riot hinted that the interaction between Kayle and Morgana in their rework will be much more significant than Xayah and Rakan's.

I never saw any "hints" towards the champions literally fusing together into one.

I mean, her fusing would not be a core component of her gameplay.

Of course it would be.

If Riot announces that Kayle and Morgana can somehow fuse into a single ultra powerful champion, you can bet no one will play Morgana without a Kayle on the team as well.

And this is realistic. HotS has a co-op champ, why can't League?

HotS and League are two vastly different games.
It's not because League can't have a co-op champion, it's because a co-op champion would be a really bad decision.