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Lets Theorycraft The Singed Support Strategy [Not For Debating The Situation]

Elite4Runner··2 votes·820 views

To reiterate, this post is not intended as yet another thread about if Riot was justified for temporarily suspending the player who picked Singed Support.

This thread is intended as a discussion for theorycrafting this into an agreeable strategy.

So the premise for this discussion is first and foremost that the entire team is behind this strategy and is willing to pick and play their respective champions and roles in order to make the best of it.

The fundamental core for this strategy is that the player who will assume the role of support will select the Smite summoner spell. They will attempt an early invade and will roam for some early top and/or midlane ganks before returning to the bottom lane.

Notice that I did not specifically say that the champion selected will be Singed, because it does not necessarily NEED to be Singed in order for this to work.

In my mind, the basic problem with this strategy is that it will leave the bottom lane vulnerable since the ADC will most likely be soloing against the meta ADC and Support of the other team.

What we will need to do is to try and come up with the best strategy to compensate for this, being any and everything from what champions are best to pick as the ADC and/or other roles, or how best to rotate lanes.

I would also like to see ideas for what specific, if any, situations would open the opportunity to pull out this strategy.

What champions or team compositions does it counter best?

What champions or team compositions would it be the least effective against?

Also, after the support has returned to the botlane the first time, what do they do from there?

Do they re-assume the standard support playstyle, or do they occasionally roam/invade, and under what conditions?

Please stay on topic and be respectful of one another.

15 Comments

Oglaf2 votes

That's the point. I very much doubt the Jungler would get behind sharing the enemy jungle.

The whole situation is silly.

LeDjent1 votes

{quoted}

That's the point. I very much doubt the Jungler would get behind sharing the enemy jungle.

The whole situation is silly.

I would.

I would start in my jungle and let the Singed (or w/e Supp champ is selected for this strat) go straight into their jungle. I would love for the enemy jungler to be set back in the early game, plus I'm still farming my jungle and can try to gank all while the Supp is accomplishing the counter jungling. The whole team benefits, except maybe the solo ADC, who, since he is solo, should be out leveling the enemy lane (granted he can survive).

Elite4Runner1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mikey the Legend,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TpL47Oz4,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-11-17T16:52:14.719+0000)

I would.

I would start in my jungle and let the Singed (or w/e Supp champ is selected for this strat) go straight into their jungle. I would love for the enemy jungler to be set back in the early game, plus I'm still farming my jungle and can try to gank all while the Supp is accomplishing the counter jungling. The whole team benefits, except maybe the solo ADC, who, since he is solo, should be out leveling the enemy lane (granted he can survive).

Excellent point!

What ADC do you think would be best suited to hold their own 1v2 at this point in the game?

Hold their own, meaning being able to maximize farm without dying.

LeDjent1 votes

{quoted}

Excellent point!

What ADC do you think would be best suited to hold their own 1v2 at this point in the game?

Hold their own, meaning being able to maximize farm without dying.

Maybe Cait? I'm thinking someone with good range and escapability.

Need Gold 4 Tent2 votes

Does not have to be an ADC. Considering ADC can do any lane, why would you put a Kog to suffer 1v2 bot when you can put a Vayne top to make the enemy Darius's life a living hell? Cait is a good choice though, max Q makes for good wave clear. Or you could put a Morgana to 1v2, max W also clears waves safely and efficiently.

Not having ADC bot lane does put a slight damper on doing dragons though, but still not a problem if you consider the fact that you have 2 junglers, 2 smites and 2 jungle items.

LeDjent1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir HaxaIot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TpL47Oz4,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-17T19:40:12.618+0000)

Does not have to be an ADC. Considering ADC can do any lane, why would you put a Kog to suffer 1v2 bot when you can put a Vayne top to make the enemy Darius's life a living hell? Cait is a good choice though, max Q makes for good wave clear. Or you could put a Morgana to 1v2, max W also clears waves safely and efficiently.

Not having ADC bot lane does put a slight damper on doing dragons though, but still not a problem if you consider the fact that you have 2 junglers, 2 smites and 2 jungle items.

Good point.

That would be a fun thing to try out. Shatter the meta!

BLACK REALM GOD1 votes

put shyvanna bottom.

Elite4Runner1 votes

{quoted}

That's the point. I very much doubt the Jungler would get behind sharing the enemy jungle.

The whole situation is silly.

I honestly don't even know what you are talking about. Your jungler isn't "sharing the enemy jungle" because it isn't really his at this point.

And nothing says that your jungler couldn't be invading with you, or invading the other side of the enemy jungle at the same time.

Or they could simply be farming your own jungle.

Or .. if there is any reason for it, they could be temporarilly filling in as the support, .. or even just camping/setting up for a gank to relieve some of the early pressure that they will no doubt be experiencing.

Try thinking outside of the box

LeDjent2 votes

{quoted}

I honestly don't even know what you are talking about. Your jungler isn't "sharing the enemy jungle" because it isn't really his at this point.

And nothing says that your jungler couldn't be invading with you, or invading the other side of the enemy jungle at the same time.

Or they could simply be farming your own jungle.

Or .. if there is any reason for it, they could be temporarilly filling in as the support, .. or even just camping/setting up for a gank to relieve some of the early pressure that they will no doubt be experiencing.

Try thinking outside of the box

I really think this would be a cool strat to do. In a way I see it as being similar to the double jungle strat in the LCS (with some minor differences).

Like, maybe the jungler and the Singed can just two man invade the entire enemy jungle, or one quadrent and hope to get an early pick of the enemy jungler as he comes into the quad you just stole from him.

Oglaf1 votes

I'd imagine your Jungler would get quite pissed at you for doing it, because counter-jungling is his business, his gold and EXP.

Elite4Runner1 votes

{quoted}

I'd imagine your Jungler would get quite pissed at you for doing it, because counter-jungling is his business, his gold and EXP.

And I quote

So the premise for this discussion is first and foremost that the entire team is behind this strategy and is willing to pick and play their respective champions and roles in order to make the best of it.

Need Gold 4 Tent1 votes

As long as you are not taking his jungle, I can see no problem. You'd have to rotate between showing up bot lane every now and then because the respawn isn't quite great, and you need some exp as well while not farming jungle.

Back to OP, I do this quite frequently and mostly on cinderhulk users. If you're comfortable enough with your champ you can actually run summoner 11 summoner 3.

Shen is one of the candidates for this, I had their blue warded, and saw him smite gromp. Then I made use of his kind leash to smite blue for myself and went back to lane.

From there on, I'd go take scuttles every time it was up, which kind of saved me some trinket wards to use in lane instead, and when I saw the jungler gank/farm close to top lane, I'd go grab his wolves for the vision buff and come back to lane.

My first item was tracker's into cinderhulk, allowing me to skip sightstone. Because tracker's had less wards on it though, I kept yellow trinket for most of the game instead of turning it into oracle. Their jungler was behind and busy farming, so after we got a somewhat failed gank from our jungler (only sent them home), we took dragon with 2 jungle items and smites.

The idea of this though, is not so much to counterjungle rather than because Sightstone is a weak item statwise, while you can get a scaling tank item that serves the same purpose, and abuse the easier dragons. Counterjungling is just making use of the fact that you have smite. It means, your jungler can go gank top lane, while (after sending your own enemy laners back home), you sneak a dragon.

LeDjent1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir HaxaIot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TpL47Oz4,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2016-11-17T17:04:23.002+0000)

As long as you are not taking his jungle, I can see no problem. You'd have to rotate between showing up bot lane every now and then because the respawn isn't quite great, and you need some exp as well while not farming jungle.

Back to OP, I do this quite frequently and mostly on cinderhulk users. If you're comfortable enough with your champ you can actually run summoner 11 summoner 3.

Shen is one of the candidates for this, I had their blue warded, and saw him smite gromp. Then I made use of his kind leash to smite blue for myself and went back to lane.

From there on, I'd go take scuttles every time it was up, which kind of saved me some trinket wards to use in lane instead, and when I saw the jungler gank/farm close to top lane, I'd go grab his wolves for the vision buff and come back to lane.

My first item was tracker's into cinderhulk, allowing me to skip sightstone. Because tracker's had less wards on it though, I kept yellow trinket for most of the game instead of turning it into oracle. Their jungler was behind and busy farming, so after we got a somewhat failed gank from our jungler (only sent them home), we took dragon with 2 jungle items and smites.

The idea of this though, is not so much to counterjungle rather than because Sightstone is a weak item statwise, while you can get a scaling tank item that serves the same purpose, and abuse the easier dragons. Counterjungling is just making use of the fact that you have smite. It means, your jungler can go gank top lane, while (after sending your own enemy laners back home), you sneak a dragon.

This is a cool idea too!

Aptest1 votes

_Assumptions: _

  1. early advantages in mid, top and jungle are worth MORE than loss of stalemate scenario in bot lane.
  2. Chance of early level diving of solo laner in bot low.

_Past occurrences in competitive play, and solutions used: _ M5. Alistar / Lee sin double jungle. Use Urgot to ADC, give him early blue buff. Result: Several games resulting in completely one sided snowball, victory within 15 minutes.

_Possible Present day solutions to ADC issue: _ (a) Switch ADC toplane. Early pressure against enemy jungler helps against ganks ; Use wave clear champion botlane. Xerath, Ziggs, Victor, Zilean, any of the dumb "AFK farm with 1 skillshot and not interact at all" (b) Use Wavelcear ADC like Sivir. Prioritize handing them blue buffs. (c) Urgot. We all know he is a star guardian at heart.

Also Ivern

Elite4Runner1 votes

I find it amazing that there were so many people who were up in arms about this topic, trying to defend this guy's right to play the champion that he wants to play, in the role he wants to play it, saying things like "his team should just work with him" ... but this is the extent of the responses I get on how to make this work.

Thank you to those who have contributed so far.

I like that we have got a few unique ideas already.

Cait bot lane would work fairly well to hold her own.

And the idea of lane swapping top and bot early to work around this strategy is very good as well.

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