Can we please have more MR Items?

Starcall Casey·Apr 23, 2015·45 votes·2,316 views

It feels so bad that the highest MR Item in the game is only giving 55 magic resist. While the highest armour item gives 100 armour plus extremely good passives and stats.

What are your thoughts?

58 Comments

vIbvdOwbkoApr 23, 201519 votes

Autoattacks are a tool that every champion in the game has.

Armor stacking isn't really for the AD casters but more for the ADCs. They get attack speed, attack damage, critical chance, critical damge, and all kinds of on-hit effects in order to boost their autos.

Casters have AP and that's it. Want to counter an AP champion? Get MR and HP. That simple. They may get void staff but you should still be able to sufficiently negate their damage.

A fed AD will deal insane damage with their ranged autoattacks.

ValyrianBladeApr 23, 20152 votes

True as that is, there's no reason we can't have a third MR option with slightly more MR and less/no health and a different passive (or even an active).

Randuin's, Frozen Heart, Sunfire Cape, Thornmail, Ohmwrecker... we have so many armor items with unique passives and actives.

For MR we get 2 options: Spirit Visage or Banshee's Veil (ignoring 50 MR and Armor on GA, and 60 MR and Armor on Zz'rot portal). Against a huge AP comp it'd be nice to be able to build some other purely defensive item? (To be fair, we have Maw and Locket as good options as well but they're not quite the same as the big armor buys).

vIbvdOwbkoApr 23, 20153 votes

{quoted}

True as that is, there's no reason we can't have a third MR option with slightly more MR and less/no health and a different passive (or even an active).

Randuin's, Frozen Heart, Sunfire Cape, Thornmail, Ohmwrecker... we have so many armor items with unique passives and actives.

For MR we get 2 options: Spirit Visage or Banshee's Veil (ignoring 50 MR and Armor on GA, and 60 MR and Armor on Zz'rot portal). Against a huge AP comp it'd be nice to be able to build some other purely defensive item? (To be fair, we have Maw and Locket as good options as well but they're not quite the same as the big armor buys).

I just feel that there's a ton of armor options because there are autoattacks and abilities for AD damage. Some ADC spells are useless come late game simply because their autos are so powerful and quick. The only thing that can truly stop them is blind or dodge or parry, etc.

AP's have abilities and that means they're gated by cooldowns. Those abilities are meant to impact the game, that's why they're harder to negate through buying resistances.

Champion SkinApr 23, 20151 votes

The problem is if you are playing a tank and trying to avoid being burned down by the fed Cassiopeia on the enemy team....

And it would be fine giving people more MR options if you didn't make them stronger then the current ones After all in most games tanks would still just buy 1 mr item and stack armor/Hp to try and survive against the ADC

ApolloclipticApr 23, 20151 votes

I don't see why people are against more MR options, I agree that there should be more and stronger armour items, but a little more diversity with MR please. I find that in some games, an enemy AP heavy team will blow up one of my champs with just two spells (not ulti), or one spell and a spare adc shot. You want just a little something to stop you dying that fast, but non of the current options "synergise" with your champ or kit. Tanks typically have the same options over and over, but ultimate it works, but sometimes as a bruiser or mage (support especially) you want something other than Holy grail, it's about variety not power. Just some more MR items with different passives, (nothing above 50, but maybe a few 30'ish items?)

Aych PiiApr 23, 20151 votes

Well, I mean, there's always item 3112 . It's not available on the rift but it feasibly could be, I suppose. Not sure how popular a buy it'd even be seeing as it lacks the health/passives from Banshees and Spirit Visage.

GilleamApr 23, 20158 votes

highest MR item is 60 not 55 on rift item 3512

revliledpembrokeApr 23, 20155 votes

Galio approves.

RasCaelestisApr 23, 20154 votes

I just wish you could start the game with an MR item... Making item 1033 cost 500 was one of the strangest things Riot's done in a long time. You can start with an armor item, but not an MR one and I don't know why.

CZNOuI9LIwApr 23, 20151 votes

I heard that it was because it gave a bit too much MR early on making it hard for mages early on. Don't quote me on that though.

ZantumallApr 23, 20153 votes

I think the reasoning was essentially that, because AD champions do substantial and consistent damage with auto-attacks even in the early game regardless of their cooldowns or mana bars, it's important to be able to start with an armor item to reduce that. Mages at the very early levels (especially 1-3) often have long cooldowns, high mana costs, etc. that prevent them from dealing damage to their lane opponents as reliably and consistently as AD champions; being able to start with an MR item could in many cases completely negate the threat of their spells for the early levels. Against the few outliers who can reliably poke with spells early (Ryze or the like), we have Doran's Shield.

RasCaelestisApr 23, 20151 votes

Ah. That makes sense, but it's still annoying. I play a lot of tanks in top-lane and used to really like starting Null-Magic when I was against people like Rumble or Teemo. Now I usually go Flask and pots and try to sustain and stay safe until I can recall and get Spectre's Cowl.

I get that starting Null-Magic Mantle made things annoying for mid-lane mages fighting resource-less champions, but it also affected other lanes.

Very Hard EngageApr 23, 20153 votes

i believe the reasoning is because you only need to take an AP mid laners burst, at which point you just turn and go ham on them. and you dont need much mr to do that, only health. and they can miss entirely dealing 0 damage. whereas AD champions have high sustained damage potential with numerous auto attacks. id like another health/mr item tho.

razor345Apr 23, 20153 votes

i leave you with 3 words "force of nature".

ApolloclipticApr 23, 20152 votes

Just looked up FoN, that was a stupidly over powered item, we don't need FoN for variety, just something other than Spirit Visage and Banshee. maybe an item similar to Merc treads but not boots, giving certain jumps more versatility to the build paths

AelvrApr 23, 20152 votes

My thoughts are these:

(1) damage-dealers really only need bv and ga, more or less. (2) HP stacking beats most AP bursty champions anyway, so you don't need that much mr to beat them as a tank; but it is not as strong against attackers; you need to stack randuin's, fh, and thornmail to beat them. (3) I miss FoN too, but it was removed for a reason.

lB2kGRlc8yApr 23, 20153 votes

was that reason mundo?

YOU BEEN WARNEDApr 23, 20151 votes

Singed was pretty broken with it too. Just sayin', I don't understand why they decided to remove it instead of buffing magic dmg sustained dmg dealers instead of those brain dead right clickers called ADCs.

Champion SkinApr 23, 20151 votes

What about when you play against Cassiopeia who burn down all the tanks on the enemy team?

AelvrApr 24, 20151 votes

I think having a champion with as much sustained AP as Cassiopeia beat tanks is an ok thing, but that might be because what I'm imagining is Cass blowing up tanks once late game has been reached; if she's doing this in the midgame consistently, then you bring up a valid point.

Champion SkinApr 24, 20151 votes

Well it depends most tanks would likely get crushed mid game as they often prioritize armor against ADC's And if they don't well then the ADC will melt them....

AelvrApr 24, 20152 votes

Fair enough.

SquidblimpApr 23, 20152 votes

Magic damage is dealt in short bursts, generally. As such, you experience less magic damage in an extended teamfight. The MR helps you survive the burst. Armor, on the other hand, is important against ADCs that can attack you with an onslaught of resourceless, unlimited basic attacks. You will experiences this physical damage constantly, not in bursts, since it isn't limited by cooldowns or mana.

Tis a nice dayApr 23, 20152 votes

item 3512 60 Magic resist.

ChromeFluxxApr 23, 20152 votes

I Highly disagree with most of these comments, i think that there are way too many mages with sustained damage late game that is not resistable. This one game, i distinctly remember their whole team was ap. It was like, Swain Malzahar Nidalee Veigar and Zyra. I was renekton top against swain, so i rushed banshee's, Then i get spirit visage, I also got merc treads, Zz'rot portal, Guardian Angel and Maw of malmortius. This is just about the best build for full mr, and i still Couldn't tank much. Even though i had about 4k health and almost 400 mr, The fact is that not only Magic pen is too cost efficient, but in addition to that, There are too many magic pen or true damage ap scaling abilities that render mr very useless.

Tl;Dr - If you want to win. Take a full ap team. You'll dominate mid to late game. If not go 14 to 4 in the first 10 minutes.

DivewingApr 23, 20151 votes

Malzahar and Veigar. The reason you lost probably right there

hgjkdlsaf jeldvbApr 23, 20152 votes

MR doesn't passively stack like Armor does, and AP doesn't stack like AD does. Physical damage values are typically higher, so armor is as well. There's also more and better armor pen options than there are mpen options. Banshee veil does a ton to cut magic damage on its own. Health fucks over burst champs, who are predominantly ap, and who make up the majority of ap champs as well. Simply, being able to survive an AP's combo really fucks them over. Since most ap champs are burst, MR items need to have lower values to not invalidate the damage type.

You still have a lot of options though.

item 3102 item 3065 item 3111 item 3156 item 3001 item 3174 item 3060 item 3190 item 3222 item 3139 item 3091 item 3026 item 3512

Mind you, AP is still optional at high levels of play, so let that sink in.

YOU BEEN WARNEDApr 23, 20151 votes

frozen fist ? o.0

hgjkdlsaf jeldvbApr 23, 20151 votes

item 3026 whoops typo

Champion SkinApr 24, 20151 votes

Though if MR needs to be lower and such because AP are mostly burst champions... What does that mean for sustained damage AP champions like Kayle, Azir and Cassiopeia where you can't simply survive their burst and you will be fine

Jungle Lux GodApr 23, 20152 votes

I personally feel like the MR items we have are really weird. We have a lot of MR items geared towards offensive classes relative to the amount of items geared towards tanks, while armor items are almost never found on offensive items, with Zhonya's being the only exception, while tank-oriented armor items are in relative abundance.

This lack of MR items wouldn't be so bad if the MR items were more universally good, but the fact that Banshee's Veil is really the only MR item that anyone can afford getting due to Spirit Visage and Locket of the Iron Solari being so relatively situational based on champion choice, so a lot of tank builds are forced to buy Banshee's as their magic resistance option. Banshee's should never be the only option.

ReikkenApr 25, 20152 votes

There are enough MR items. The issue is that all MR items are small Meanwhile there are fewer armor items, but they're all huge

item 3001 item 3174 item 3060 item 3102 item 3190 item 3139 item 3156 item 3222 item 3065 item 3091 min: 25 max: 55 average: 42.25

item 3110 item 3025 item 3056 item 3143 item 3068 item 3075 item 3157 min: 45 max: 100 average: 67.86

Seems very much intentional to me. You need more armor to defend effectively against AD as it's sustained damage. But for AP most of the time, if you can survive the initial burst, you're good to go. If an AP does half as much damage to you, because of burst and cooldowns, they don't take twice as long to kill you. It's more like the difference between taking 2-5 seconds and taking 20 seconds. Wheras an AD that kills you in 4 seconds with no armor instead kills you in like 9 when you take half as much damage.

Starcall CaseyApr 25, 20151 votes

item 3157 item 3025 item 3143 item 3512 item 3026 item 3068 item 3056 item 3110 item 3075 item 3047 VS item 3139 item 3156 item 3060 item 3190 item 3102 item 3065 item 3174 item 3091 item 3222 item 3001 item 3111

Armor ranging from 25-100 with great passives and actives to counter AD comps. Magic resist ranging from 20-55 with mediocre actives and passives to counter AP comps.

That Isn't a good range of defense from AP damage sources, having only up to 55 magic resist per item really hurts a team trying to defend agaisnt the onslaught of rising AP, max HP, and current HP damage from the opponents.

The bigger issue is not necessarily how much MR item's we have. it's about how useful and effective those items are.

Every game we can use one of the armor items to help us counter AD teams while also making us stronger. But MR isn't as effective and because of that we only really use the most effective in it's class to try and counter Magic damage, Which would be item 3102 & item 3026

DalthineApr 23, 20151 votes

Have a random spit ball idea.

Veil of the Pathless 50 MR 30 AP 10% cooldown reduction Negatron Cloak + Fiendish Codex + 900 gold Unique passive: Chaos Shroud When dealt magic damage, reflects 30 + .05 AP magic damage at the attacker (halved against damage over time or area of effect abilities)

Helps combat sustained damage AP champs a la Thornmail without affecting burst ones too much. Damage is intentionally low because it's meant to be a tank item specifically for use against sustained damage casters.

More a random idea than anything, though; just something the discussion kicked off in my head.

alagoreApr 23, 20151 votes

Maybe magic damage from spells, if it was just magic damage, sunfire would do almost as much damage to the owner as the people around them.

DalthineApr 23, 20151 votes

I wouldn't be overly concerned with Sunfire myself. If it's counted as a Dot or AoE that's 16ish damage before MR application. If you're building a Sunfire or Cinderhulk you're probably tanky enough that it'd barely tickle. And people have been wanting a nerf to Cinderhulk anyway.

Liandry's might be more of a concern. I'm not so sure intended use would overlap with results in all cases, there. Especially considering Liandry's is meant to be anti tank.

YOU BEEN WARNEDApr 23, 20151 votes

Nonononono!

Sustained magic damage dealers should be given the right to replace ADCs, not given further punishment!

They are already usually immobile, skillshot reliant, cost mana and don't have that good of an early game as opposed to ( Graves Caitlyn )

Leave them alone, I pray they once overthrow the craptastic ADC meta.

Champion SkinApr 24, 20151 votes

The problem with sustained damage mages is that usually they aren't all that great at taking towers and taking dragon/baron might burn all of their mana leaving them very vulnerable should the enemy jump on them

aaronconlinApr 24, 20151 votes

Galio now God-tier

qetzelApr 23, 20151 votes

I say no. If you buy two MR items now you become really hard for a mage to kill, unless that mage is Cassiopeia. Adding a third MR item - even if it only had 55 MR - or increasing the MR of the other ones - could invalidate a team with more than one AP champion.

Champion SkinApr 24, 20151 votes

Well if you have that much MR... then the ADC would melt you really hard.... There is a reason most tanks builds lots of armor after all..

OrangesilkApr 23, 20151 votes

Unless you're facing Cassiopeia Kayle Vladimir Anivia Who actually ARE supposed to be unstoppable come late-game, a single banshees protects you from any and all AP burst mages, and if they DO try burst you, they are wasting their CD's.

YOU BEEN WARNEDApr 23, 20151 votes

cough Azir Karthus Orianna Ryze Katarina Malzahar Swain Heimerdinger Lissandra Singed cough

IMO the main argument is; most of these aren't that strong currently.

OrangesilkApr 24, 20151 votes

Azir, Karthus, Ryze and Heimer I comptely forgot about, sorry.

The other ones are either full-on burst mages (Orianna, Lissandra, Katarina, Malzahar) Or aren't really building full AP to begin with (Swain, Singed)

YOU BEEN WARNEDApr 24, 20151 votes

I'd argue otherwise, if left alone their damage output goes bonkers. Either because of low CD Lissandra Orianna or practically no CD Singed Heimerdinger

Ryuku CruxisApr 23, 20151 votes

I really think a MR/no health item is needed that is purely for tanks benefit.

You need to itemize against what you need to. If you don't need to build much MR you can pretty much shut down an adc with just your build, the passives on armor tank items are somewhat nuts. But that's needed, because unlike apc, adc scale multiply, but getting them before they scale shuts them down so hard. Early randiuns and thornmail against a 1 1/2 item adc (because your items are cheaper you completed 2 before he did), you will laugh at their attacks.

But if you don't need to build much armor (yeah right), why is it so taboo that an apc can get shut down with just a build? The APC isn't supposed to focus the tank, they focus other carries, which only further says tanks should be very resistant against magic damage in general.

Saying too much MR shuts down AP is a stupid arguement. Early armor/hp shuts down adcs just as much.

If a 55MR item with 500 hp, with freakin health regain added on top, (or less hp, and a bubble that blocks a whole freakin spell, physical or magical) can be balanced, surely a 70-75 mr item with no hp or any kind of sustain passive could be, it's just not been done.