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Jhin is healthy? Lol

Lunar Lunacy··3 votes·1,036 views

So about this Jinx buff... I used to be a Jinx main with above a 60% win rate on Jinx. Then Jhin and lethality came along, people started to play mostly Jhin, Varus, Ashe, and Miss Fortune, and in my opinion it greatly hurt champion diversity in the bottom lane by leaving champions that didn't use lethality or took longer to scale in the dust.

So they nerfed Lethality a bit and buffed Last whisper not long ago, that was a step in the right direction to me. I'm no longer complaining about lethality, and varus has, regrettably, pretty much dropped off the map again.

But to say Jhin's kit brings "healthy teamfight utility?" I'm not so sure. He can apply a snare+slow+potentially lethal damage to you from off the screen. Why make backline champions so far backline that no one will ever even get close enough to them to kill them if they position themselves right? That kind of range just seems too safe to me. Honestly I once played against a Jhin who never even left the fog of war except to farm minions, and he was legendary again and again. He got tons of kills and by far dealt most damage in the game but never left the fog of war. Does anybody else see a problem with that?

I'm not sure why riot considers that "healthy teamfight utililty".

29 Comments

Ralanr3 votes

Is dodging not counterplay to you?

Lunar Lunacy1 votes

In this case I'd actually say it's not, because dodging Jhin's ult is usually more a matter of luck than skill, unless you waste flash. Don't believe me go watch professional games, they land Jhin's ult quite often on other pro players. If it was a simple matter of sidestepping it you'd think pros wouldn't have any problem.

Ralanr1 votes

Are you factoring in vision and heavy communication in those environments?

YokoNomi2 votes

{quoted}

In this case I'd actually say it's not, because dodging Jhin's ult is usually more a matter of luck than skill, unless you waste flash. Don't believe me go watch professional games, they land Jhin's ult quite often on other pro players. If it was a simple matter of sidestepping it you'd think pros wouldn't have any problem.

If luck is required against Jhin's ult, then I'm to assume luck is required for every skill shot out there, that happen to generally be faster than his ult. If luck were to honestly play in any part of it, it'd be on his side, considering the speed of his shots. Also, what do pro plays have to do with literally any other tier in the game? I hate it when people think that's how we all need to be judged, as both players, and in terms of the champions themselves. Stop it.

Lunar Lunacy1 votes

I used the example of pro players because Ralanr implied we should simply dodge Jhin's W+Ult. I can recall many times when pro players, who are far better than you or I, have failed to do exactly that. A slight reduction of missile speed would satisfy me, because it would make dodging a more realistic option.

YokoNomi2 votes

{quoted}

I used the example of pro players because Ralanr implied we should simply dodge Jhin's W+Ult. I can recall many times when pro players, who are far better than you or I, have failed to do exactly that. A slight reduction of missile speed would satisfy me, because it would make dodging a more realistic option.

You're missing my point. I've dodged Jhin ults in the past. I'm Bronze 2. What do pro games have to do with this? A small group of people should not in any way shape or form define the whole community. They do enough of that already, I don't need to see more of it.

Lunar Lunacy1 votes

It is fine to balance the game based on the abilities of professional players in my opinion. If something becomes a problem for them, then it will likely also become a problem for the rest of the community.

YokoNomi2 votes

{quoted}

It is fine to balance the game based on the abilities of professional players in my opinion. You know why? Because if something becomes a problem for THEM, then it will likely also become a problem for the rest of the community.

I feel like if I were to continue this discussion with you, I'm going to derive into coming up with forum board safe insults until I get talked down, or until the thread catches the eye of a mod. I'll just leave mention that I have more than just one or two problems with this post, and leave it at that. Take that as you will.

Lunar Lunacy1 votes

You can't have a civil conversation without using insults? If I'm wrong, I'd love to hear why I am. My opinions are flexible and open to change through healthy debate.

YokoNomi2 votes

{quoted}

You can't have a civil conversation without using insults? If I'm wrong, by all means I'd love to hear why I am. My opinions are flexible and open to change through healthy debate.

Why should I bother? What I'm seeing is a conversation that has been pitted into the corner of "This is how it is, so this is what must happen". What would I ever say that'd change what you think or believe or bother to consider, if this is how you truly feel how the game should be balanced? I'm wasting my time with the wall you've deliberately built with those posts.

Lunar Lunacy1 votes

I didn't realize I'd built any such wall, but I'll gladly go back and edit my posts so that they seem less adversarial. My writing tone doesn't reflect my actual temperament. I have no intention to devalue anyone else's opinions, I was just stating my own.

YokoNomi2 votes

{quoted}

I didn't realize I'd built any such wall, but I'll gladly go back and edit my posts so that they seem less adversarial. My writing tone doesn't reflect my actual temperament.

Why bother? Opinions differ, it happens. Deliberately sweeping it under the rug defeats the point of posting it. You shouldn't bother catering to my disagreement or lack of willing to cooperate. There's no benefit in it.

Lunar Lunacy1 votes

The benefit is education. You say I am wrong, I would really like to know why so I can use the knowledge to improve my own gameplay or mindset regarding the game. I'm always seeking to improve and listening to the opinions of other players can be valuable.

YokoNomi2 votes

{quoted}

The benefit is education. You say I am wrong, I would really like to know why so I can use the knowledge to improve my own gameplay or mindset regarding the game. I'm always seeking to improve and listening to the opinions of other players can be valuable.

The biggest reason pro/LCS has such a grasp on how the game works is almost entirely based off of the strengths and weakness of the champions involved. The reason I had a problem with this however, is the strengths and weaknesses involved, primarily involve both of the players, and not the champion itself. It's why I did not want pro plays being a focal point of the conversation, because if a Bronze 2 can dodge a shot, what does it matter if a pro player can hit, and another pro player can't avoid it?

It's about the player, their planned shots, and the other player's plans to avoid it.

Lunar Lunacy1 votes

Okay, fair enough. That was part of the reason I said luck is a factor though. When a Jhin ults, you don't always know who they are going to target, when they are going to pull the trigger, how much time they are going to wait between shots, or if they are going to lead their shots to the left or right of you (you could try to dodge and accidentally step into it). I guess my point is that it's usually a lot easier to land it than it is to dodge it, but I feel like both have a certain degree of luck involved. And of course champion movespeed plays in here, and champion model size, so it varies from champion to champion. Maybe I'm used to playing slow champions.

Lunar Lunacy1 votes

Honestly the issue was never meant to be whether or not Jhin could land his skillshots, it's saying that other ADC champions don't have that same opportunity. I'm kind of looking at it from the perspective of comparing Jhin to champions that have to get a lot closer and take more risks to have the same or even less effectiveness. Of course, as you say, player skill plays the biggest factor. From my standpoint I'm assuming that out of two players of equal skill playing different ADCs, the Jhin would do likely do better because he has more safe tools available to him. Ashe ult would counter him though lol

Xavanic2 votes

Jhins ult is easy to land, and hard to dodge WHEN he has proper vision/teamwork, but alot of the time, jhin wont have those in solo que, plus you have to factor in the fact literally anything can cancel his ult, I'm surprised your not complaining about vel koz's 1.2k true damage ult instead

Lunar Lunacy1 votes

Maybe I'm not because I don't see Vel'Koz nearly every game lol. Jhin though...

Ralanr2 votes

Let's be real, state of ADCs in proplay still isn't great.

Xavanic2 votes

If jhin is such an issue for you ban him maybe? I rarely see a good jhin, but thats probably because I main divers, there is an occasion where I see a good one with proper peel and yeah, its scary, but if we're nerfing jhin, we better nerf vayne, ashe, lucian and ezreal as well, because their usually worse then jhin

Lunar Lunacy1 votes

My issue isn't how scary they are when they get fed, any champion can be terrifying if they have a good game or are played in the right hands. I think something that is far more telling is how well a champion can do when they are behind. Jhin has more tools at his disposal that he can use from a safe distance, well out of harm's way. None of the other ADCs you just mentioned have that aside from Ashe, or at least not to the same effect.

Xavanic2 votes

Ezreal, Lucian and vayne can generally get a 1v5 penta if you don't have enough hard CC just through their absurdly high damage and mobility, ashe is outright annoying due to her always being relevant, like seriously, jhin is an ok champ, but these ones are retarded

Xavanic2 votes

"That kind of range is just too safe." Warwick, camille and fizz disagree

MissingKayo1 votes

This thread is as much of a joke as your skill at League.

Lunar Lunacy1 votes

Useful contribution :)

YokoNomi1 votes

{quoted}

This thread is as much of a joke as your skill at League.

Had the urge to look you up after reading this.

I can't say I wasn't expecting to be disappointed, but... damn.

MissingKayo1 votes

And like sheep, another one comes to whine.

YokoNomi2 votes

{quoted}

And like sheep, another one comes to whine.

You're confusing a whine with an insult. If you're going to retort, make sense, please.

ºˉ GeMıNı1 votes

i love that everybody is saying you are just complaining. they probably main jhin because they are trash at true adc. :) i agree 100%. i havve also encoutnered a jhin that never had to leave fog of war. juast now. huehuehue. cmon rito.

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