[{quoted}](name=Sire Hippington,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TbeoHfFW,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2017-06-22T01:00:00.008+0000)
I for one don't think marksmen need to hit the numbers that thy currently do at 5+ items AT ALL. Marksmen overall are a busted class, now more than ever.
Their damage is just absurd at later stages of the game for how much safety they have if they and their team play it properly. And all that while their early in a 2v2 is nearly unmatched expt maby for absurd earlygame champos that therefor get massively outscaled by marksmen.
Also, ther natural scaleing of crit makes it so that marksmen have not than much diffences in their powercurve. They all hyperscale into late, some a bit more than others, but they all outscale mpst non marksmen, which makes it hard to really have an early/midgame adc without things getting out of controll.
You're right, but you're not right, imo.
I think the issue isn't that they have high damage. It's that it never ends. Once they get X strong, the only thing you CAN do is make them not play the game anymore by piling on tons of hard cc while you try to end them before they can move again. That's why I'm a fan of adding more reload mechanics to marksmen, so that there's windows to work with for when they're most definitely vulnerable (or at least more so), and that a champ's different skills are more important to the champ (since that's what they'll HAVE to use while they're out of ammo).
However, I'll say you're "more right than not right", because I think you bring up a valid point: You COULD justify putting a few mages in bot lane if marksman dps wasn't so absurdly high as the game went on. It makes it so you kinda require it in all scenarios, so thinking of a different way to play your game is just not optimal. Of course, tanks would probably have to be made relatively squishier to compensate or we'd need more pen options for AD (since marksmen wouldn't be effectively doubling their damage against non-turrets), but the thought does seem to open up possibilities.
To clarify: I think marksmen should have high damage come late game, but the spike-like nature of crits and the fact that you can't outplay a barrage of AAs sort of ruins it. Something like reloads or other types of special mechanics could be a way to handle the lack of counter-play in that regard...like we did for Jhin, which is probably part of why people love him so much.
Reloads are certainly a good mechinc for makeing them feel speciall and different while still relying on AAs.
Other options are dps skills like Ez Q or Urgot Q that are use nearly as often as AAs, or on-hit effects with speial consitions.
Vaynes W is a great example, it forces her to stick to one target but therefor allows her to kinda ignore tankiness. The current issue is that nobody really gives a damn about taniness while crit vayne Destroys squishy targets with 1-2 AAs, so she can prettymuch ignore her W and go for they usuall opportunistic target choice anyway.
Jinx Q would also have potential, we just need a bigger difference between two forms, and more max stacks for minigun so you have some window to burst her clsoe up, but if you let her stack up she starts shredding. right now, rockets have to much singletarget dps and minigun stacks up in no time, so you always use rockets for the range and only switch to minigun if someone jumps on you later in the game(Early on, the AS dps differnce is more noticeable.)
Not much to add. I like the analysis.
