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Buff assassins / Nerf ADCs

LechintanTudor··2 votes·691 views

I played a lot of games with Zed recently and he feels very weak. Even tough I win lane and roam and help other lanes in the end it doesn't matter. Assassins are supposed to kill high priority targets by bursting them. The usual targets are ADCs. To burst an ADC Zed has to be in range to use his ultimate, set up his w shadow, and hit his SKILLSHOT Q and the death mark will execute his target. However almost all ADCs can easily escape Zed.

Almost all ADCs have some way to escape assassins:

  • Miss Fortune can use her E to slow and W to get movement speed
  • Twitch can go invisible and slow with his W
  • Draven has his E to slow and W to escape
  • Tristana has a HUGE dash on her E
  • Caitlyn, Jinx, Varus can root you
  • Sivir has a spell shield and her R to escape
  • Ezreal has a flash on his E and a slow on his Q if he builds iceborn
  • Xayah can become untargetable and insta root you
  • Vayne can knock you back and become invisible
  • Ashe can slow you and stun you with her R And on top of that you have items like guardian angel, stop watch, locket, redemption, knight's vow, ninja tabi.

What bothers me about ADCs is that they burst just as hard, if not harder than assassins, they have way higher DPS, don't have to risk as much as assassins to kill someone and their damage is point and click:

  • Miss fortune can one shot you with her point and click Q
  • Twitch can one shot your entire team with his point and click autos from very far away
  • Draven can one shot you with a spinning axe
  • Tristana can one shot you with an E and some autos
  • Vayne can one shot you with three autos

I wish ADCs would have more counterplay like Ezreal. He has to hit his skillshots to do damage and his R animation gives you enough time to jump on him. What's the point of picking assassins if they can't even do their job properly?

9 Comments

sadaiblast2 votes

Alright, so lets see how someone who actually plays all of these champions explain to you the problems with all your examples or show you your valid points

  • Miss fortunes W speed is instantly lost upon taking damage from an enemy and its not much movement speed until she has a few points into the ability (okay this is debatable) but yeah i agree with the E slow being a bit strong, still shouldn't be an issue at all for gap closer champs

  • twitch can go invisible and escape but staying close to him should be able to reveal him, and even then if twitch goes invisible you can just focus down his support to either force him to come back and fight or exposed to a 1v3, W slow isn't an issue again for gap closers

  • Draven's E has a big hitbox but can generally be easily dodged if you dont stand too close to a wall while running at him, Draven's W gives movement speed for like a split second and has a large cooldown unless he is kiting you like a god (in that case you probably deserve to be outplayed by him)

  • tristana does have a long range escape on her W but its very telegraphed and shes kinda slow moving in the air even for an escape ability, she can easily be locked down during her W animation, most good tristana's use her W to get into fights rather than to get out, anyways having 100k points on tristana over 2 different accounts i feel like im gonna go on a rant with her so ill just say this, if youre gonna complain about trist as a zed player, whine about her R because you would at least have a point there

  • Caitlyn's traps are super telegraphed and easily avoidable, despite what most people believe she cant insta-root you with her W, if youre gonna complain about her, discuss her E and then refer back to the tristana argument again because i dont wanna repeat my self

  • Jinx's E is her one and only defensive tool as an adc, it is very easy to avoid with a blink but really it does give some peel to an otherwise litteral sitting duck (thankfully they made it so that it does stop dashes now but zed doesn't have any dashes, they're blinks)

  • Varus isnt gonna blow his ult on ya if he has peel, but if he doesnt have peel then obviously he is gonna try to peel himself with what otherwise would be used as a ENGAGING tool, remember this thing has a very long cooldown while still being dodgable by a good handful of assassins

  • sivir can only block one of your 4 spells with her spell shield but aside from that you have to remember that this champion was designed SPECIFICALLY for kiting and peeling away champions (i would say her ult is more of an engage than an escape but lets keep things simple here) anyways im supprised you didnt bring up her passive here too cuz thats another big thing you can talk about on sivir

  • refer to sivir's spell shield argument above for ezreal's E, just a little bit more powerful (but its the only thing he has in this case unlike sivir) also nobody really does hardcore blue ez build anymore and even for those who do, he wouldn't get gauntlet until way later into the game

  • for xayah's R+E combo, its just gonna be a combination of the arguement of what i said about varus' R and sivir's E, again i feel like i would be going on a rant fully explaining the stuff behind xayah but for the sake of this point i wont unless you ask. anyways im surprised that xayah's W wasnt an issue for you here

  • im not even gonna talk about vayne here... i feel like id be wasting time with you on this one because its like you didnt think about what this champ is good and bad at

  • ashe is terrible at kiting and her R only last's 1 second at close range, after that she has 0 safety, i dont even know why she is on this list aside from "PERMA SLOW TOO OP" when in reality you've probably never played ashe as a proper adc to really see how true this actually is when it comes to running and kiting any assassin

anyways for the items you listed:

  • nobody in their right mind rushes a GA, at best maybe 4th item if they really need it. plus assassin's can capitalize on this too, i see more zeds getting GA eariler than most ADC's

  • anybody can take stop watch to counter assassins, not just adc's, plus adc's are giving up alot more stuff just to spefically counter you by either taking the rune or buying a stopwatch early. thats not an issue, thats just being a smart player

  • while i do agree with locket, redemption, and vow being a little overbearing and all, i think thats an issue very separate from your issue here.

  • for ninja tabis just refer to my arguement from the stopwatch except times 3 (whatever that means to ya :P)

while i really do agree that at the current moment, adc's as a whole have too much dps. but for the examples you cherry picked about them having too much burst... i dont feel like i can show you that you really dont know what youre talking about here but i feel like that would be a whole discussion on its own (which we could gladly discuss)

TL;DR while assassins are quite weak right now and adc's are kinda too strong at the moment, the points made in the post dont adress any of these real issues at all and are more just points of whining about stuff that OP doesnt fully understand. OP i recomend reading the whole post and not just the tldr if you want to argue any of my points. i will gladly discuss any counter arguement or questions you have about anything i said :)

Sona Ping5 votes

Ow... Dude, I'm sorry you typed all that in response to a troll thread.

sadaiblast2 votes

No I knew it was a troll thread, but there are alot of people who really still think this stuff, plus I was bored and it was fun for to write out all that anyways. So I guess I don't really lose much :p

Sona Ping2 votes

Oh phew. Alright then, good to hear.

LechintanTudor1 votes

{quoted}

Alright, so lets see how someone who actually plays all of these champions explain to you the problems with all your examples or show you your valid points

  • Miss fortunes W speed is instantly lost upon taking damage from an enemy and its not much movement speed until she has a few points into the ability (okay this is debatable) but yeah i agree with the E slow being a bit strong, still shouldn't be an issue at all for gap closer champs

  • twitch can go invisible and escape but staying close to him should be able to reveal him, and even then if twitch goes invisible you can just focus down his support to either force him to come back and fight or exposed to a 1v3, W slow isn't an issue again for gap closers

  • Draven's E has a big hitbox but can generally be easily dodged if you dont stand too close to a wall while running at him, Draven's W gives movement speed for like a split second and has a large cooldown unless he is kiting you like a god (in that case you probably deserve to be outplayed by him)

  • tristana does have a long range escape on her W but its very telegraphed and shes kinda slow moving in the air even for an escape ability, she can easily be locked down during her W animation, most good tristana's use her W to get into fights rather than to get out, anyways having 100k points on tristana over 2 different accounts i feel like im gonna go on a rant with her so ill just say this, if youre gonna complain about trist as a zed player, whine about her R because you would at least have a point there

  • Caitlyn's traps are super telegraphed and easily avoidable, despite what most people believe she cant insta-root you with her W, if youre gonna complain about her, discuss her E and then refer back to the tristana argument again because i dont wanna repeat my self

  • Jinx's E is her one and only defensive tool as an adc, it is very easy to avoid with a blink but really it does give some peel to an otherwise litteral sitting duck (thankfully they made it so that it does stop dashes now but zed doesn't have any dashes, they're blinks)

  • Varus isnt gonna blow his ult on ya if he has peel, but if he doesnt have peel then obviously he is gonna try to peel himself with what otherwise would be used as a ENGAGING tool, remember this thing has a very long cooldown while still being dodgable by a good handful of assassins

  • sivir can only block one of your 4 spells with her spell shield but aside from that you have to remember that this champion was designed SPECIFICALLY for kiting and peeling away champions (i would say her ult is more of an engage than an escape but lets keep things simple here) anyways im supprised you didnt bring up her passive here too cuz thats another big thing you can talk about on sivir

  • refer to sivir's spell shield argument above for ezreal's E, just a little bit more powerful (but its the only thing he has in this case unlike sivir) also nobody really does hardcore blue ez build anymore and even for those who do, he wouldn't get gauntlet until way later into the game

  • for xayah's R+E combo, its just gonna be a combination of the arguement of what i said about varus' R and sivir's E, again i feel like i would be going on a rant fully explaining the stuff behind xayah but for the sake of this point i wont unless you ask. anyways im surprised that xayah's W wasnt an issue for you here

  • im not even gonna talk about vayne here... i feel like id be wasting time with you on this one because its like you didnt think about what this champ is good and bad at

  • ashe is terrible at kiting and her R only last's 1 second at close range, after that she has 0 safety, i dont even know why she is on this list aside from "PERMA SLOW TOO OP" when in reality you've probably never played ashe as a proper adc to really see how true this actually is when it comes to running and kiting any assassin

anyways for the items you listed:

  • nobody in their right mind rushes a GA, at best maybe 4th item if they really need it. plus assassin's can capitalize on this too, i see more zeds getting GA eariler than most ADC's

  • anybody can take stop watch to counter assassins, not just adc's, plus adc's are giving up alot more stuff just to spefically counter you by either taking the rune or buying a stopwatch early. thats not an issue, thats just being a smart player

  • while i do agree with locket, redemption, and vow being a little overbearing and all, i think thats an issue very separate from your issue here.

  • for ninja tabis just refer to my arguement from the stopwatch except times 3 (whatever that means to ya :P)

while i really do agree that at the current moment, adc's as a whole have too much dps. but for the examples you cherry picked about them having too much burst... i dont feel like i can show you that you really dont know what youre talking about here but i feel like that would be a whole discussion on its own (which we could gladly discuss)

TL;DR while assassins are quite weak right now and adc's are kinda too strong at the moment, the points made in the post dont adress any of these real issues at all and are more just points of whining about stuff that OP doesnt fully understand. OP i recomend reading the whole post and not just the tldr if you want to argue any of my points. i will gladly discuss any counter arguement or questions you have about anything i said :)

This isn't a troll thread. I just wanted to express my frustration about ADCs being too strong. When I ult an ADCs as Zed most of them can sit still and lifesteal a lot of damage away while at the same time dealing a lot of damage to me. At most I can get a 1 for 1 trade. I feel like they deal too match damage for how safe they are. And their kits have very little counter play since they are not skillshot reliant(except Ezreal). I can't even get close to Draven, Twitch, MF without being chunked for half of my health with a point and click Auto or ability. And if I use my W as a gap closer My E, auto, Q will deal less damage than they lifesteal.

Penns1 votes

Buff assassins but revert Fizz first tbh imo

Wînter Fox1 votes

Nerf ADCs, Supports, and Assassins - buff Skirmishers and Fighters (not Urgot, Yorick, Sion, Nasus, etc)

RuFiot1 votes

Assassins really shine mid game (the moment they reach lvl 6), then they can one shot adcs or guaranteed a kill for the team without dying.

However almost all ADCs can easily escape Zed.

He have 2 gap closers, his shadow and his ult, and builds item 3142 and have slow in his kit.

if we not in a teamfight scenario -

Miss Fortune can use her E to slow and W to get movement speed

W - only when she not getting hit buy you E - you have your shadow to dodge it, youmuu's

Twitch can go invisible and slow with his W

you can shadow to him ult and stick on him with your youmuu's

Draven has his E to slow and W to escape

same as twitch

Tristana has a HUGE dash on her E

a dash with a BUFFER TIME on it, if you ult while its baffering you will go with her.

Caitlyn, Jinx, Varus can root you

its the ult of Varus it's a huge tool for him on cd just shadow on traps or go around them item 3142

Sivir has a spell shield and her R to escape

i don't know i don't play her or againts her like ever, maybe you right

Ezreal has a flash on his E and a slow on his Q if he builds iceborn

Yeah I agree, ez considered the safest "adc" in the game, and he meta right now.. he was dog sht last season

Xayah can become untargetable and insta root you

she don't insta root you, you can see it coming and avoid it, but her ult is a strong tool

Vayne can knock you back and become invisible

Invis only for 1 sec, just wait it out and cont' to kill her

Ashe can slow you and stun you with her R

same as sivir

What bothers me about ADCs is that they burst just as hard, if ...

Only in late game, they can't gank can't roam, and they are so weak they need a support beside them

Hópe1 votes

{quoted}

I played a lot of games with Zed recently and he feels very weak. Almost all ADCs have some way to escape assassins:

..?

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