It will be garbage.
You guys didn't really fix the issues that Kayle has in this game. You simply made her look better. I mean, no one here likes a good rework, so I guess that's fine, but it's still a trash rework that won't alleviate any of her underlying issues as a champion in the long run.
Jamaree7 votesYorick and Nunu reworks were bad?
Abibyama II1 votesSo bad that they see play in high elo and gets picked occasionally in pro play
chipndip12 votesAs in you don't like them or they are bad?
I love Nunu's design. I was super excited for him. He's shit, and so is Yorick.
Jamaree6 votesI love Nunu's design. I was super excited for him. He's shit, and so is Yorick.
53% win rate globally with a 5% pick rate, and 53% win rate with an 8% pick rate on NA with Nunu
53% win rate globally with a 9% pick rate, and 52% win rate with a 9% pick rate on NA with Yorick.
Uhhhhhhhhh, in what world is this bad?
https://lolalytics.com/ranked/na/platinum/plus/champion/Yorick/
https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Yorick/
https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Nunu/
https://lolalytics.com/ranked/na/platinum/plus/champion/Nunu/
Saianna1 votesNunu is somewhat arguable whether he's good or bad rework. I'd say it's good, cause old nunu was braindead. Now he has more in his kit.
Yorick.. That shit definitely failed. And I don't even blame whoever reworked yorick, cause they hardly had any base material to work on. Theme-wise yeah, it's definitely a gravedigger. play-wise.. "the f is this".
I'd even dare say Sion and Poppy were also rework failures. As standalone champions they are awesome. But Riot just shouldn't have changed their class. Just imagine a day that Soraka will turn into an ADC, because rito decides that's the way they want to rework her. Even if she becomes beloved ADC champion... It'd still be weird and untrue to the original
About Kayle... Yeah.. It kinda looks worse. Fresh, but worse.
Jamaree2 votesYorick.. That shit definitely failed. And I don't even blame whoever reworked yorick, cause they hardly had any base material to work on. Theme-wise yeah, it's definitely a gravedigger. play-wise.. "the f is this".
Better then just spamming ghouls off CD brainlessly on your opponent, not really sure what they could have done there to make people happy and actually have any enjoyment playing against.
I'd even dare say Sion and Poppy were also rework failures. As standalone champions they are awesome. But Riot just shouldn't have changed their class. Just imagine a day that Soraka will turn into an ADC, because rito decides that's the way they want to rework her. Even if she becomes beloved ADC champion... It'd still be weird and untrue to the original
I mean, Sion as a champion before was a champion who didn't have two skills depending on if you went AD or AP, and the only thing that really made old Poppy unique was an ultimate that was broken to a non balancable point.
Saianna1 votes"better than" tell me, is turd sandwitch better than shit sandwitch? I mean.. Yeah old yorick was annoying to enemies, but this one is annoying to everyone lol. What an upgrade :P
Old sion. Yea, he was a mess with his skills. But he was undeniably either a fighter or a mage. Now he's a tank. Not even a bruiser and definitely NOT mage. Player requires so much skill to play him as AP, it sucks out all the fun.
And Poppy used to be a fighter/bruiser while now is a tank.
Those might be details for you, but for me they were deal breakers. There's a reason why we enjoy playing certain champions. I wasn't even good with them but I still enjoyed them. Now? I actually avoid them.
Jamaree2 votes"better than" tell me, is turd sandwitch better than shit sandwitch? I mean.. Yeah old yorick was annoying to enemies, but this one is annoying to everyone lol. What an upgrade :P
I don't see how this one is annoying to everyone, especially since this one has use past laning phase.
Old sion. Yea, he was a mess with his skills. But he was undeniably either a fighter or a mage. Now he's a tank. Not even a bruiser and definitely NOT mage. Player requires so much skill to play him as AP, it sucks out all the fun.
And Poppy used to be a fighter/bruiser while now is a tank.
Those might be details for you, but for me they were deal breakers. There's a reason why we enjoy playing certain champions. I wasn't even good with them but I still enjoyed them. Now? I actually avoid them.
Sorry man, their old mechanics legit just didn't work.
Saianna1 votesSorry man, their old mechanics legit just didn't work.
Yeah I know and I just hoped the reworks would fix that. They did fix it but... They didn't try to keep those champs in their old roles, so even though they are fine the way they are right now, they are just different champions that I dislike.
Something like Karma players and her rework I'd say.
chipndip11 votes53% win rate globally with a 5% pick rate, and 53% win rate with an 8% pick rate on NA with Nunu
53% win rate globally with a 9% pick rate, and 52% win rate with a 9% pick rate on NA with Yorick.
Uhhhhhhhhh, in what world is this bad?
https://lolalytics.com/ranked/na/platinum/plus/champion/Yorick/
https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Yorick/
https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Nunu/
https://lolalytics.com/ranked/na/platinum/plus/champion/Nunu/
That's bad in the same world where we realize that this is only possible because Riot's been steady nerfing literally everyone around them for months. JGs been nerfed for all ganking picks while we only have Sej for relevant jg tank picks, and top lane's fighter picks have all been receiving hits while the tank picks haven't been relevant for months, save Sion.
They're on top because almost all top candidates have been shoved to the side manually by Riot for an extensive amount of time. They're both still trash.
Jamaree1 votesThat's bad in the same world where we realize that this is only possible because Riot's been steady nerfing literally everyone around them for months. JGs been nerfed for all ganking picks while we only have Sej for relevant jg tank picks, and top lane's fighter picks have all been receiving hits while the tank picks haven't been relevant for months, save Sion.
They're on top because almost all top candidates have been shoved to the side manually by Riot for an extensive amount of time. They're both still trash.
So what, even though they see above average play and win rates, they need buffs is what you are saying?
chipndip11 votesSo what, even though they see above average play and win rates, they need buffs is what you are saying?
No. The minute real top/jg picks are buffed to a point of competency again, these guys will be straight out the door. You can't "buff" these kits into being good. There's nothing that they're good at that's worth picking them for to begin with. They're just here for a bit until Riot says "Aight, let's make top lane tanks champions again" or "Perhaps it's time to do something about how much we've done nothing but nerf junglers without buffing any of them at all to compensate".
Think of it like Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike's Ken. He was lousy in SFIII: 2nd Impact, but Capcom nerfed everyone else around him while simply not touching him at all, and he became one of that game's top tier. That's basically what they did here, except they ALSO had to repeatedly buff these guys while nerfing everyone around them. They still aren't good. Everyone else is just bad.
Jamaree1 votesNo. The minute real top/jg picks are buffed to a point of competency again, these guys will be straight out the door. You can't "buff" these kits into being good. There's nothing that they're good at that's worth picking them for to begin with. They're just here for a bit until Riot says "Aight, let's make top lane tanks champions again" or "Perhaps it's time to do something about how much we've done nothing but nerf junglers without buffing any of them at all to compensate".
Think of it like Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike's Ken. He was lousy in SFIII: 2nd Impact, but Capcom nerfed everyone else around him while simply not touching him at all, and he became one of that game's top tier. That's basically what they did here, except they ALSO had to repeatedly buff these guys while nerfing everyone around them. They still aren't good. Everyone else is just bad.
I'm confused, what exactly do you want here then?
chipndip12 votesI'm confused, what exactly do you want here then?
For Riot to stop doing bad reworks.
You can't make Yorick or Nunu ACTUALLY good characters at this point. Their kits don't have anything good in them. The only thing you can do is learn from this and make a better champion next time...and yet they keep making shit champions like Neeko and Sylas.
If Riot would stop focusing on gimmicks and focus on the reason why this champion should be desirable to begin with, I wouldn't have to make a thread like this.
Jamaree1 votesFor Riot to stop doing bad reworks.
You can't make Yorick or Nunu ACTUALLY good characters at this point. Their kits don't have anything good in them. The only thing you can do is learn from this and make a better champion next time...and yet they keep making shit champions like Neeko and Sylas.
If Riot would stop focusing on gimmicks and focus on the reason why this champion should be desirable to begin with, I wouldn't have to make a thread like this.
And how exactly as these bad reworks and what is a good rework?
chipndip11 votesAnd how exactly as these bad reworks and what is a good rework?
Simple.
The rework needs to address the problems of the original kit, and the new kit needs a gimmick and a niche of value.
Yorick looks great. Fine. What does Yorick do? His "big thing" is "I can send my ult to split push bot lane while I split push top lane". At the same time, he needs his ult to defend himself if he gets engaged on during his split push, so if he can't send his ult somewhere else, Yorick's reduced to "Undead Nasus". Nasus already needs some sort of touch-up to get with the times, and Riot makes another Nasus. What does it accomplish that we don't have in this game at this point? Plenty of champs can split push with ease. Way more efficiently than Yorick can, anyway.
And Nunu's case is only slightly better. To the VERY least, he power farms the jg. Still doesn't address the fact that his engage with snowball is bad, his DISENGAGE with the thing and his E is also bad in comparison to other wardens, and the most he's good for (aoe damage from his ult) is easily interrupted by cc. What good is a tank that doesn't peel well or engage fights well? Simply not good.
But Kayle's issue is the other way around. The point of the kit is clearly there (late game hyper scaling). The problem this time around is that they don't actually address why people don't like playing her to begin with, outside of looking outdated and weak. She's still going to get her shit rocked by people that play aggressively into her. She's still going to lose lane hard. She's still basically a liability and non-champion for the first 20 minutes of the game. The .5% of the population that fight through it will still be insanely broken when she comes online. She still has virtually 0 counter-play outside of "make her not play the game". They basically could have forgone doing anything to the kit and just updated the visuals and called it a day. Why did they bother with this dual rework when all they did was update visuals and hardly do anything about the pain points of either champion? Morgana's W is still as uninspired as it's been. Her passive is still as lack luster. Kayle's still got the same issues that drove people away the last time. This time could have been spent on 2 other champions if this is all they could come up with.
This rework will be worse than Warwick's.
Abibyama II1 votes2019 is gonna a bad year because there's gonna be less Zoes and Irelias and more Sylases and Neekos
Nicolasbo1433 votesNunu is in a good spot, he is seeing pro play and is viable in solo q
JarodDempsey3 votesHmm I've mained all three over the years and while I can say yoricks rework was disappointing and nunus rework was reprehensible, I don't really see how Kayles rework won't make her dps role better. Like yeah sure the early game is weaker and the ult is a flat nerf and they're needlessly ruining her support potential but her status as a hypercarry will go unmatched at level 16 and at level 11 only people like vayne and kog could compete with her.
I do mostly agree with you but please explain the underlying issues you referred to.
chipndip11 votesHmm I've mained all three over the years and while I can say yoricks rework was disappointing and nunus rework was reprehensible, I don't really see how Kayles rework won't make her dps role better. Like yeah sure the early game is weaker and the ult is a flat nerf and they're needlessly ruining her support potential but her status as a hypercarry will go unmatched at level 16 and at level 11 only people like vayne and kog could compete with her.
I do mostly agree with you but please explain the underlying issues you referred to.
The reason why her game play is so polarizing to begin with is because you can't contest her game play. It's all just AAs, and the intensity of this AA spam increases over time, complete with a guaranteed time frame to do so without dying. So, in this rework, Riot decided to make her even worse pre-11, then make her even more broken post-11. Thus, we've effectively created a champion that has to be absolutely exploitable until she's absolutely stupid to deal with. Basically, we made a marksman.
Problem with point 1? We already have marksmen in every game. We don't necessarily need a Kayle to hyper-carry with to begin with, and outside of that, she offers her ult, but her ult isn't a front line, nor is it engage. She's also liable to being eaten alive by poke and confirms in the mid lane. I guess she could try to farm from the jg, but then she's exp deprived.
Overall, we have a 1-dimensional ap hyper-carry that lanes top reworked into...a 1-dimensional ap hyper-carry that lanes top that's even more ridiculously powerful or ridiculously useless at certain time stamps. Idk who was smoking what when this champ was made but if all we're allowed is shitty reworks, lest the masses cry the rework into the tier list grave, can we just never rework a champion again?
Abibyama II3 votesCool.
Why not wait till live? People said the same about Aatrox
lil koda1 voteswasnt aatrox pure shit until they overbuffed the living fuck out of him then butchred him again
Abibyama II1 votesHe was actually broken in high elo before the hotfix buffs.
SuperTopLFBottom1 votes?
Aatrox got completely deleted.
Surprisingly he was as far as perfomance goes good and now he got trashed.
great rework. Best ever.
Gimme back my old aatrox, ty.
Abibyama II1 votesIdc if he got deleted or not, it's not my point.
Wind Whistler3 votesPlease don't compare Nunu's rework to Yorick's. Yorick lost everything that day. He's not even Yorick anymore, and that means I have one less champion to play nowadays, and, combined with Galio's 'rework', and the gutting of Urgot this patch, I only have one champion to play now.
It hurts.
Ralanr2 votesI mean, all they really did was make her late game stronger, her early weaker, and have her more reliant on levels than items.
As much as I support a rework to try a character again, I didn’t understand Kayle’s underlying problems that weren’t made that way to balance her. Course, I also utterly despise auto attack heavy champions so...
Critmaster Garen1 votesI mean, all they really did was make her late game stronger, her early weaker, and have her more reliant on levels than items.
yup, thats exactly the problem.
current kayle isnt viable for the same reason. all they did was basically crank up her broken power curve to be even weaker early and even stronger late.
i honestly dont see the point of that.
Abibyama II1 votesShe has more utility and better teamfighting on top of that
Ralanr1 votesWell she’s more gated by levels than items now.
Critmaster Garen1 votesWell she’s more gated by levels than items now.
kayle gets destroyed in lane because she doesnt have items yet vs. kayle gets destroyed in lane because she doesnt have levels yet.
i guess?
i mean, it might be easier to come back from a level disadvantage, than an item disadvantage. that doesnt really change that her power curve is so messed up that she probably never sees her op lategame.
like how is she ever going to survive top lane against champions like renekton? how is she going to survive mid lane against any mage who outranges her?
does she have the clear to jungle? doesnt really look like it from the footage ive seen. where do you take her to be able to scale?
should she even be able to scale even just semi reliably with how broken she is lvl 16? that seems unfair aswell.
Titanium702 votesWell, I think it did fix a few issues. Most importantly you're alot more free in your builds.
Before you needed 
100% you and didn't really participate in the game before you got them.
While those still synergize with her Kit some parts don't. CDR is no longer mandatory. Ragebalde does not buff the Waves, and AoE is already given.
I guess we'll see alot of build having success without those items in it.
Cheap ones that allow you to survive the lane.
even 
come to my mind.
Thinking about the new Heal Censor could be a REALLY amazing Item on her.
Additionally she's alot less reliant on her Ult. Or better: Can no longer build with the sole focus of killing everyone while invulnerable.
ChargeItDownMid1 votesWhat is wrong with nunu’s rework? Of all of the recent reworks, he has been one of the better ones. I’m sure some people may miss the old kit but they are far and few between. Also, now seems like a bad time to trash on the Yorick rework, it felt pretty bad for a long time but 9.2 fixes was the first time he actually feels good to play.
I don’t have much skin in the game either way but as long as the rework doesn’t end up being a disaster like akali is turning out to be, I don’t think too many people will be unhappy. At least there isn’t some rank 3 one trick with the name dontreworkkayle (yet).
Sukishoo1 votesWat? Both of them have had their ups and downs of being powerful and really bad. You can't compare any rework to on another.
Linna Excel1 votesFor those of us who haven't played her on the PBE, please explain how she is still garbage.
Also, I thought Yorick turned out pretty well. He's got a decent win rate and he's being played more now than ever before. If anything, that was a very successful rework that brought a champ 99% of the player base forgot existed back into the game. Nunu probably needs a nerf though.