@Meddler, with the Assassin rework possibly this year, I have a proposition for Zed

Desiderium··4 votes·2,617 views

With a possible Assassin rework this year (2016) I feel it is a great time to talk early about a character that is dear to me.

On release, Zed was a fairly weak champion, yet at the same time far more enjoyable to play as (and play AGAINST) than Zed's current state.

To the point where you had to put a delay on r-back, which (as expected of any artificial handicap) heavily weakened Zed against CC-mages with low ping.

That was done because he has too much safety when he ults in his current state. But on release, Zed's shadow was behind his enemy. His ult didn't have a delay on the teleport because it's so close to him that he can only viably use it to dodge a single skillshot. Same story with his W - it was nearly instant which allowed crafty, skillful Zeds to find a way out of an ult engage. Rather than just simply pressing R again - it takes no skill. And is too safe, which is why the gameplay-breaking delay was added.

Release Zed also had a tether range on his R shadow. If he got too far away from it, he can't jump to it, unlike its current state (unlimited range.) And you wonder why he is so safe? And you wonder why the delay was added? In my opinion, the best course of action would be to revert Zed to his release state.

Yes, he was weaker. But he was more fun to play, with a faster W, and R with no delay, and signified full dedication to your target.

And more fun to play against, because if he botches his engage, he has no way to get away from you. Even if his W was at its release state (600 range, almost instant dash) he still won't be as far away from you as his current ult's shadow.

As for the attack speed nerf done a few months ago; I'm not sure if this should reset as well. On one hand, it sucks having to build a dagger early in the game to build into Bork much later, just because his base attack speed is too low to function as an AD champion...but on the other hand, it makes it harder for him to stand his ground against fighters and tanks, which are meant to be his weaknesses. It can stay, or it can be reverted with the rest of his kit. I'm leaning on keeping that particular nerf.

I would like your thoughts @Meddler @RiotRepertoir. Do you think it would be a good idea to bring Zed back to his release state for the Assassin Rework? Or a bad idea? In either case, why? On what points do you agree with me on? Disagree?

@Non-Riot readers of my thread: The vast majority of non-red posters in Gameplay & Balance forum, have absolutely no idea about either of those subjects (Gameplay and balance) so I would prefer it if you would allow the informed to discuss this topic. If not, well, thanks for the bump, but keep in mind that I will not reply to you. Have a nice day.

9 Comments

disregardable5 votes

Rest assured, if they thought that his release state was balanced, they wouldn't have changed it.

Desiderium3 votes

At a glance, your logic is sound. However, once you dig deeper into this situation, it will become clear to you that it's not so black and white. As you would have realized if you read my thread.

In good faith, I will assume you did. But I will repeat myself regardless. Riot had to add a delay to Zed's R-back, because his ult has too much safety in the engage. This is because they gave it all that safety in the mini-rework they did to him a couple years back, where the shadow spawns at the cast location rather than behind the target. They had to do something, about something they had done. Does that make sense?

Let me put it another way for you to see: Why make his ult super safe, then remove some of that safety, when its release state had barely any safety at all? Would it not make MORE sense to revert it to remove that over abundance of safety, then revert W's missile speed back to release state, so that he can still have a CHANCE (not a 100% guarantee, but a chance) of getting out alive if he plays correctly? Like the way it used to be.

disregardable3 votes

Your original post wasn't very well written. You wrote a lot of text, but it's very hard to understand what you're talking about without the context of having played with release Zed.

I will say that release Zed was not balanced. I took a look through the old patch notes. He had 3 nerfs before patch 3.13, the one where they changed where his shadow spawns.

To quote the context of that patch:

**Zed’s been a balance pain point for a while, especially at the competitive level. **

And it continues,

In particular, Zed’s current play patterns – while satisfying for the player – can be executed so quickly that they offer little to no reaction time for his opponents.

In its current iteration, Death Mark sets up Zed’s gameplay for free with little execution needed beforehand. Because Zed’s intended gameplay focuses so heavily on manipulating his shadows, we want to force him to actively think about how he’ll use his tools to assassinate his targets.

By the looks of it, they upped the safety of the ultimate because they decreased its reliability. Three years later after literally everything else has gotten nerfed, it's comparatively good to the current meta, so it needs nerfed again.

Not a Zed player, but that's my guess.

Desiderium1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Very Toxic Jinx,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TT0ar0Pb,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2015-12-28T15:17:08.784+0000)

it's very hard to understand what you're talking about without the context of having played with release Zed.

This is why you can't understand my argument. If you haven't played release Zed, and know the ins and outs of why he was a better state than his current in terms of balance and fun to play, then you shouldn't have posted in my thread, if you read my closing note about wanting to only discuss this with informed people.

Got New Glasses1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Very Toxic Jinx,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TT0ar0Pb,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-12-28T14:15:06.428+0000)

Rest assured, if they thought that his release state was balanced, they wouldn't have changed it.

how many time did they need to consider that release nocturne ulti cd/range was balanced? 3 years how many time did they need to consider that Fiddlesticks needed his old E mana cost? almost 1 year and a half,

i remember that zed got broken in season 3 with the armor pene changes+BRK rework active, he went into an assassin that could deal 2k damage with his ulti.

Indominus Blade1 votes

Stop lying toxic liar. I played Zed since his release and he wasn't weaker, his ult was instant, his W was 2 times faster, you couldn't dodge his combo. His ult did more damage because it practically almost ensured 2x E for increased slow and 2x point blank shuriken. His E had 3 sec CD and more damage, he could jungle etc.

Sure Zed was more "fun to play" but he wasn't weaker at all. His playstyle changed, he gained power, he lost power. Riot will never bring back release Zed. Us lucky Day 1 Zed mains experieced that, that memory and experience is for us alone to cherish and remember, not noobs who started playing recently.

SouL1ess1 votes

TBH Riot took away the ult shadow because Shadowslash slowing for 80% is as much of a death sentence as Talon's Cutthroat Silencing his target.

Akali is SO HOT1 votes

The problem with that iteration of his ult and why they changed it was because he could 100-0 you so quickly with his easy to land triple shuriken that you could do almost nothing to stop him and he could even easily finish you off without having to relay on his ult damage as much as he does now. They changed it so he couldn't instantly kill you when he went in for a kill. Sure it made him less safe but it also made him very oppressive when he went for all ins. That's just my 2 cents tho.

Desiderium1 votes

With Meddler around at the moment, I thought it's a good time for a bump!

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