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My Dynamic Queue Theory

hypnoso··23 votes·1,906 views

I could be wrong, but here is how I think that Dynamic Queue is going to affect the game later on:

When you climb in solo queue, it was because your individual skill as a player was moving. However, in dynamic queue, it is no longer about your individual skill, but rather your premade. For example, in solo que if you moved from Gold 5 to Gold 1, it was because your skill has improved and you're now playing at a Gold 1 level. Rather in Dynamic Queue, you may have climbed from Gold 5 to Gold 1, but that does not mean your individual skill as a player has improved, as your premade would have assisted you in your climb.

Therefore, there would be players in Gold 1 (for example), not playing at a Gold 1 level, maybe 2, 3 or even 5, but have only climbed because of the skill of their team. So when these people finally queue by themselves, it will negatively affect the team that they are on, as they can not match the skill of those they are playing with.

Could be 100% wrong, but that's just my theory.

43 Comments

DrCabes15 votes

It's not just a theory

Lazypeon1009 votes

It's a GAME THEORY!

... I'll see myself out.

Spicy Rice2 votes

Mat Pat, is that you?

franticFurball9 votes

Therefore, there would be players in Gold 1 (for example), not playing at a Gold 1 level

Congratulations, someone call Benedict and Robert, we got a Sherlock here :D

The system gives ranks to individual players, but is largely influenced by teams. Of course the players ranks no longer reflect their individual skill.

In fact its even worse...because the system forces soloQ players to play with premades, (by putting them in teams containing premades) even if they don't want that, even ranks of people who never play in a premade are affected by that...because, when I'm in a group with a 4man pre, then the skill of the premade is the deciding factor in that game, not my personal contribution.

The Last Ballad7 votes

Where is the theory? You just listed facts at us...

eastcoastblaze4 votes

Its a 100% correct. And the reason we need a solo and group mmr.

I lost game 3 of my gold 3 promos because i had a bronze player the past 2 seasons who was gold 4 now because of playing exlcusively in a 5 man party, expect they decided they wanted to play solo this time. They went 0/8 before 8 minutes and the enemy gold 3 twitch was 15/0 by the 13 minute mark. I lost my desire to play ranked for a month after that.

rescued2 votes

That just sounds like a nightmare :(

eastcoastblaze2 votes

Yeah its leaves a veey sour taste in your mouth and lills your desire to play ranked

B00B003 votes

I climbed from s5 to G4 soloq.....

I don't see anything wrong with the que however I would like to see a full solo only que as let's be honest it's nice to play solo too and you same as me don't want to be matched with a premade.

However league is a team orientated game/esport and they are pushing it forward by highlighting this.

DrCabes13 votes

Team play is still important in solo Q. Dynamic Q just allows more cheese that needs to be pre-planned and catches solos off guard because Riot doest even tell us who is premade

Nimble Manta3 votes

It's your fault for being caught off gaurd. You should always have good map awareness and see what you're opponents are doing. If they 5 man tower dive you it's you're fault for not warding or backing off when their entire team went missing.

Lirik1 votes

when someone tell me something like that in the ingame chat i go afk this way i won't get caught and i will tell them its theirs fault everytime they get dove.

Nimble Manta2 votes

So you afk whenever you get punished for bad map awareness? Cool, have fun climbing.

Lirik1 votes

i get punished only once for getting abused by a premade then i go afk and my teamates get abused turn by turn so i guess they all have bad map awareness eh.

open your eyes, map awareness give you nothing vs 4 peoples diving you under your turret.

Nimble Manta1 votes

Well first off, solo players are able to 4 man dive too. I've seen it and done it, this isn't a sympotom of DQ. Anyways...

Mid pings mia, I back off to my turret and make sure I have wards in the jungle next to/behind my turret. Oh look, there's 2-4 walking up to my turret, time to (gasp) back off to the tier 2 turret.

Say you're in a lane with the tribush behind the turret. If you put a pink there and have a ward in the river, you will have enough warning to back off your turret before 5 people can collapse on you. If your bot lane and your support has sightstone, you have absolutely no excuse. The only lane that can't independently cover themselves with wards is mid, so if you're not mobile enough to escape and the enemy team has multiple people that can wall hop you're gonna have to rely on teammates to help you with vision.

Bottom line is these things can happen in solo que too, so you're fucked if you don't know how to deal with them or worse yet afk instead of figuring something out.

Lirik1 votes

the desilusion is strong in this one

Nimble Manta1 votes

"Having better map awareness protects you from ganks." "That's delusional so imma downvote you."

Can't tell if trolling, but either way have a good day.

BluePolarizer3 votes

Check my last Fizz jungle game.

I get camped in my own jungle at level 2. By a stroke of luck I walk away with FB. Afterwards all lanes get destroyed.

I check to see their records. Jungle, top and support all play together.

What a joke.

Nimble Manta4 votes

So if solo players camp you're jungle it's because they were good at the game and deserve the win? If a premade does it it's because dynamic que sucks and they're just boosted scrubs?

BluePolarizer2 votes

actually that's exactly it. before, if I got camped in my own jungle in solo queue - which did happen multiple times - I'd just say "damn that was frustrating. How did all those guys keep track of me?" and say meh, they just outskilled me.

now, I don't know if I get outskilled, or because they were coordinated through voice chat and thus share in real time every detail of when my lanes go MIA, when my lanes aren't, which lanes are low, which lanes are not, who is back, who isn't, etc. and have the timing and synergy to stun a Fizz multiple times in succession.

Nimble Manta3 votes

So... if a bunch of randoms in solo que organize a discord or skype call in champion select are they cheating? Is a premade of people not using voice chat considered ok?

It sounds like your issue is with voice chat, not dynamic que. Considering randoms will always be able to use voice chat to get an advantage over randoms who don't than the solution to your problem wouldn't be the implementation of solo que, but rather the implementation of an in client voice chat no?

Anags2 votes

And that's the dumbest argument I've ever heard.

Baek Ma Ri3 votes

quick op.gg search shows that you played last 5 of your 6 games was premade. I don't trust you.

B00B001 votes

so look further back? my friend who is plat 4 wishes to duo with me atm (Ettel) think he's platV now actually.

also mos to those last 5 if you checked 11hours ago per your post where normals not ranked.

Anags1 votes

He's right....and you can check mine. I haven't played a single ranked game with more that one other partner this year which is the same as last season. And I am climbing this year more than last.

Mojihito6662 votes

Its called lying

Nimble Manta3 votes

That's not true. Say you have someone who's gold V playing with two people who are plat I. The skill level of the team will average out to plat IV, given that premades are weighted they'll be expected to play at about a plat III level. If said team maintains a positive win rate at plat III it means that someone on the team is playing above the skill level of their current rank. Whether it be that the Gold V player plays at a Gold III level or one of the Plats belongs in Diamond doesn't matter, as the entire team will benifit. However, becuase only one person is playing above their rank, he'll rank up less than he would of if he were solo - so instead of one of them climbing three divisions all three of them will climb one division.

tl;dr Yes dynamic que can distort peoples solo rank but not to the point where you carry someone from gold V to gold I. The only potential issue is you can carry someone from a division 1 to the next tier (Gold I -> Plat V) which some people might have "honor" issues with. The solution would be you have to play 5 game promos solo (no one in their right mind cares about someone belonging in Gold III being Gold II so 3 game promos are whatever.)

The Deckowner1 votes

even if there is no boosting, 3 goldV climb together to goldI, together they might perform gold I level teamplay, but solo they are still gold V level.

Nimble Manta1 votes

So when they're not in a premade do they magically lose their mechanics and decisions making? "They work really well as a team" isn't a valid excuse because matchmaking weights premade mmrs for that exact reason.

The Deckowner1 votes

No when they aren't in a premade they lost their buddies who have great synergy and voice communication with them.

Nimble Manta1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nimble Manta,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TQ0ZoOjp,comment-id=000900000000,timestamp=2016-06-07T02:59:17.641+0000)

"They work really well as a team" isn't a valid excuse because matchmaking weights premade mmrs for that exact reason.

VvVVvV2 votes

You say this as if people were not duoing before? Not every game is a 5 man pre made. Hell most the time i play im still queing solo.

I dont like Dynamic for other reasons. Like the chance that you can get reported and possible banned because 1 person on a 4 man premade has a problem with you and their whole 4 man premade will report you. Now thats 4 reports...plus any that come from the other team just because one of them all chatted pls report so and so.

But as far as people saying that climbing in dynamic doesnt show improvement of skill i dont agree with that because its not like people were not alrady queing up with a duo that they played good with.

But also i see a good side to dynamic. Lets be clear...not all in Bronze belong in Bronze...........I was once in Silver. I would think i currently play on a S4 or 5 level.........but i can remember many games were series was lost due to trolls or people who just up and get mad and decide to intent feed. Queing in a premade reduces chance of dealing with those people.

DrDiaga2 votes

Considering its a team game I don't see the issue with people climbing as a team.

They learn to counteract each others weaknesses and function effectively as, you know, a team.

Its not like everyone else doesn't have the same opportunity. Talk to so.e people and find some friends.

69982196_DEL4 votes

Read this post, has some insights realated to your comment.

{quoted}

Players formerly in bronze reached Gold thanks to DQ. These players do have an MMR that allow them to be matched in gold games because they didn't cheat their way up, they abused the system which is different and in Riot's eyes is ok. This has 3 problems:

1- A solo player has partial access or not not acces at all to the set of skills this players "develop" to climb so they must compensate with game knowledge and individual skill that lack that is arguably most impactful to the game. Getting 4 friends in a call is not hard at all and do wonders for the game. Comunicate with your jungler via pings and positioning is way harder, let alone the rest of the team.

2- These former bronze player not always play in premades. This is the major issue. When alone they are heavily outskilled. Is not uncommon at all, yesterday had one, thursday had three in different games, all four in my team. People that can't hit 50 CS by 20 mins and insist on playing carrys are extremely harmful to the experience no matter if they can talk really nice on skype. This kind of player is also frequently see it in the enemy team and if you have one single competitive bone in your body you can tell why it bothers me aswell.

3- The system is perfectly comfortable matching 5vs4+1. Filling that spot is absolute hell. Teams are vicious, they check match history for each player and finding the solo player don't take them more than a couple of minutes. Now I always ask and check if my team is a 4 men premade, if so I dodge. The few times I was naive enough to take the risk I got camped to oblivion, abused by my team and of course reported for neglecting comunication.

There are players that argue that this is a team play and I should find a party and enjoy it. They are right but it is a shame that there is no more Team Ranked. I have a nice ward skin that proves that I enjoyed the hell out of Team play past season. 5v5 is fair, healthy and extremly satisfactory. DQ can not fill TR shoes, It wasn't desingned to measure teams. Due to its innate tendency to increase variability in team compositions (mixing players of different skill levels) and the fact that players are ranked individually (premades can switch memebers at will and one plyer can have different levels of synergy in different partys), makes DQ unable to guarantee proper matching for teams. What I'm saying is that ranks cannot be trusted right now and is meaningless to thrive for a goal. I was going to reach Plat this season but there is no point at the moment.

I do belive that at this moment Platinum is starting to experience what I have undergoing for a couple of months and the problem will keep going upwards till it colides with the high ELO quality matchmaking problem.

BluePolarizer3 votes

It doesn't measure teamwork at all since you can switch people in and out of the premade at will.

Measuring teamwork and synergy was 5v5 ranked teams.

The Deckowner1 votes

teamwork as a skill should be measured by how well a player work with strangers, not best buddy irl. teamwork as a property doesn't exist ina team if it's not 5 man squad.

Remlap12232 votes

Interesting, considering I've gotten higher in ranked ladder this year than my past two seasons, and I have been playing by myself. Season 4 and 5, I couldn't get past Bronze 1, and now, I feel like I'm leagues ahead of Silver.

So despite Dynamic Queue being a "booster's heaven", I've gotten further as a solo player then ever before. Hmmm... it's almost like this whole thing is blown out of proportion.

Spicy Rice2 votes

Inb4 you get downvoted to oblivion for having a semi positive comment about d-q

Tazimuss2 votes

I play DQ solo and love it and have a 54% overall win rate and a 63% win rate with Tristana. Absolutely nothing is holding anyone back from solo carrying like they did in the past, they just want an excuse as to why they suck.

ThePartyLeader1 votes

People are going to complain... It's the internet. Either they complain there team sucks and lost them the game. Or the other team was a premade and lost them the game. Lose lose.

shalexade1 votes

I think we need to form a support group for all the plat level players, held back in gold cause their silver level scrub premades won't get better.

Mirkhail1 votes

Solo q didn't show your individual skill very well, lol is a team game and your team was a deciding factor. The problem with dq is not that you can show your skill as a team player because premade=/win, the problem is that playing solo requires different skills than playing as a premade, both require teamplay but playing as a team and with a team are two diffetennt things. A solution could be to change the way someone can climb with a system that took in account premade and a player influence in a game

Lirik1 votes

one very important thing that you don't talk about, you assume that One get a high rank by playing with a premade but you never assume that One is getting a higher rank playing solo but getting carried by a premade he don't know of.

so Yeah, players like Gunsiinger (also commenting in this post) state that they climbed solo .. yeah sure they queued solo, but nothing says if they really climbed solo they couldve have been matched with a premade of 3 or 4 alot of times during their climb.

so Yeah alot of so proud solo queuer actualy getting carried by premades and they will face the demotion if a real soloQ eventualy make a comeback even if riot said it won't happen we never know the future.

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