Wish a rioter would comment on how twitch compares to evelynn right now

Hexs Fortune·Oct 19, 2017·29 votes·1,078 views

It's pretty easy to see him as being a superior ambusher who also gets to be a late game ranged hyper carry

31 Comments

RalanrOct 19, 20175 votes

On note of their camouflage: Twitch’s is on a longer cooldown, costs mana (last I checked) and doesn’t last as long as Eve’s.

Eve’s could probably be a little smaller but I don’t think it should be twitch’s size.

RebonackOct 19, 20176 votes

{quoted}

On note of their camouflage: Twitch’s is on a longer cooldown, costs mana (last I checked) and doesn’t last as long as Eve’s.

Eve’s could probably be a little smaller but I don’t think it should be twitch’s size.

I would take active stealth over what Eve has right now in a heartbeat if it meant she got an actual gap-closer.

RalanrOct 19, 20174 votes

So...homogenize her kit with other assassins?

Edit: she’d be a worst female Kha’zix.

RebonackOct 19, 20178 votes

{quoted}

So...homogenize her kit with other assassins?

She was the original 'active long duration stealth' champion.

Assassins don't work without a gap closer just as they don't work without a focus-break.

If Riot wants to spread her damage out over several seconds and deny her strong target access, they should have just made her a Skirmisher. That's their whole MO.

RalanrOct 19, 20172 votes

So tell me how giving her a gap closer doesn’t just make her a worse but AP version of Kha’zix?

RebonackOct 19, 20175 votes

{quoted}

So tell me how giving her a gap closer doesn’t just make her a worse but AP version of Kha’zix?

New passive.

True invisibility on W cast.

Velzard of KozOct 19, 20171 votes

There's no True invisiblity. There's just Invibility and Camouflage. True Invisibility sounds as If you wanted it to be unrevealed by True Vision as it sounds as better version of Invis like True Vision is better vision.

RebonackOct 19, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Velzard of Koz,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TO8WoJNp,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-10-19T20:53:01.245+0000)

There's no True invisiblity. There's just Invibility and Camouflage. True Invisibility sounds as If you wanted it to be unrevealed by True Vision as it sounds as better version of Invis like True Vision is better vision.

Just resolving from stealth. Same tool she had back in Season 1 with the added shimmer effect all invisibility has now when someone takes damage. Tying it to W would mean someone would know as soon as she goes invisible.

The perma-stealth thing has been a nightmare to balance. Active invisibility would be far easier to account for.

Spank the FoxOct 19, 20171 votes

Really?

Twitch and Evelynn were released on the same date and both had the same stealth, same CD, same scaling, on differences were effects from coming out of stealth.

So, Twitch is just as entitled as Evelynn if we're talking about legacy.

RebonackOct 19, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Spank the Fox,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TO8WoJNp,comment-id=00000000000000000001,timestamp=2017-10-19T22:58:55.623+0000)

Really?

Twitch and Evelynn were released on the same date and both had the same stealth, same CD, same scaling, on differences were effects from coming out of stealth.

So, Twitch is just as entitled as Evelynn if we're talking about legacy.

Well, yeah. But the post was a reply to 'how do you make her not like Kha?'

Unreformed ShacoOct 19, 201710 votes

{quoted}

On note of their camouflage: Twitch’s is on a longer cooldown, costs mana (last I checked) and doesn’t last as long as Eve’s.

Eve’s could probably be a little smaller but I don’t think it should be twitch’s size.

LOL don't even try to justify it.

Your entire company refuses to acknowledge that ADCs are just better versions of Assassins.

Twitch camo gets reset on takedown and gives him MS/AS

RalanrOct 19, 201712 votes

Ok, first of all I do not work for Riot. If anything, I’m a volunteer.

Second, I’m trying to advocate that it’s not Eve needing buffs, it’s bullshit like Twitch needing nerfs.

WinterwingsOct 19, 20171 votes

it’s bullshit like Twitch needing nerfs.

^ Pretty much this Sadly, we're not getting a lot of talk on Twitch even in Dev Corner...

Unreformed ShacoOct 19, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Ok, first of all I do not work for Riot. If anything, I’m a volunteer.

Second, I’m trying to advocate that it’s not Eve needing buffs, it’s bullshit like Twitch needing nerfs.

But its not just Twitch.. Pretty much everyone who isn't a flat tank is capable of 100-0 most targets, so whats the point of squishy assassins like Eve?

RalanrOct 19, 20173 votes

See, there’s a reason I think damage is too high right now.

IcyPepperOct 20, 20171 votes

>bullshit like Twitch

Not just Twitch, is what I think he meant.

PoskeOct 20, 20171 votes

Twitch getting nerf wont suddendly make even see any play

She is still massivley outclassed by kha zix and to a lesser extenc shaco/rengar

Infact her whole ganking power even with stealth... Idk I would rather have an actual jungler like J4 ELISE any time

PaffWasTakenOct 19, 20171 votes

For a champ that relies on being fully cloaked 60% of the time, she is ironically really easy to detect compared to an ADC who's invisibility is built for being an ambush option... Even if she indeed has more tools tied to this invisibility, its supposed to be her main attribute, the same attribute that appears on a rat while being 10x better

RalanrOct 19, 20171 votes

Remember that a passive like that has to take away from power elsewhere. If it was as good as Twitch, her damage would suffer.

MyozthirirnOct 20, 20177 votes

Twitch damage doesnt seems to suffer neither his range.

RalanrOct 20, 20171 votes

And Twitch and Eve are different champions.

DexamoruOct 20, 20175 votes

And champions are supposed to be balanced around each other.

Yet twitch has better stealth, better cc (ranged slow better than melee 2.5 send delay charm), better range, better damage.

Eve only has a better disengage because of her ulti.

MyozthirirnOct 20, 20171 votes

You are the one that implied that eve damage should suffer for her cammo to be "as good as Twitch". But Twitch cammo is "as good as Twitch" cammo yet his damage is god tier. they are diferent champions but they clearly fill very similar design space Twitch being Cammo-Assassin-Adc (in that order) and Evelynn Cammo-Assassin-Wannabe

RalanrOct 20, 20171 votes

That’s cause personally I think Twitch needs nerfs. Not that people should be as strong as him.

Anu3isIIOct 20, 20171 votes

It already does...

EvewynnOct 19, 20172 votes

Yeah he's a way better assassin than eve lol.

The Yetii RiderOct 19, 20171 votes

It's pretty dumb to try and compare melee champions with ranged in this game. Ranged champions are very powerful.

DexamoruOct 20, 20172 votes

You mean being ranged AD is obscenely powerful.

DengedenOct 20, 20171 votes

Only against bad people.

Azazel AerternumOct 20, 20171 votes

Both are extremely potent targets, with vastly different playstyles and roles. Twitch is meant to be the ADC, he pops out of stealth for a massive barrage into your team, though he still has to be relatively exposed while doing so, it's well within expectation that he will be intently focused, and that it would be difficult for him to survive the coming attacks.

Evelynn requires you to use proper positioning, along with catching your opponent out of position, in order to exploit her playstyle to the fullest. You can force enemies to always be on the defensive, playing not only safer, but far more conservatively in general, even for picks, as they know that the risk is Evelynn is lurking about waiting to strike.

Both are similar in this form, that is they are properly utilized by using safe but unpredictable positioning, intentionally exploiting enemy cooldowns and lack of information to force them into unsavory situations. Evelynn can use her charm in such a manner as to lure targets into her, especially if they are not sure of which direction she may be coming from. If the enemy tower is down, you can fully flank targets if they do not have properly positioned red wards in place to detect her, and when utilizing her charm onto the target, the most logical, and without proper information, only realistic choice is to head to the closest allies or turret, in a situation like this, they will inevitably head right into the Evelynn player, and will do so unwittingly until it is far too late to change course. She has exceptionally high burst, can shred tanks, and builds in a manner as to compliment both of these.

More often than not the issue lies not in the champion, rather the player. Someone who attempts to play Evleynn in a manner that she is not designed for, or that does not ally with her strengths, will more often than not be severely inefficient, and that player will become a liability to their team rather than an asset. The same is true for any champion, one who does not truly comprehend the limits and power of a champion will never be able to reach it's full potential.

It would be like saying that Riven is a bad champion, coming from someone who could not perform even the most simple of animation cancels or combos, who then declares that she needs severe buffs in order to be viable. Of course, Evelynn is a far simpler champion, at least on the surface, than Riven, but I digress, Evelynn is an assassin, you must properly await the point in which to strike, while likewise preparing your target in such a manner as to not be instantly protected. If you initiate a fight, you will most certainly be met with failure, as they will close ranks, and you will be slaughtered. However, if you were to strike in the middle of a fight, from behind, without warning, you could most certainly inflict massive damage if not lethal to an exposed carry, for their defenders would likely not be expecting an unseen and unknown attack from a flank. Utilizing your charm is important in particular circumstances, in others it merely reveals your intent and location. It is sometimes far better to mark a target you have no intent to open up on, to force them to retreat and protect themselves, meanwhile you strike at an entirely different opponent. The 35% MR shred is important, that can definitely enhance your burst quite significantly, however in actuality it is not needed if you are capable of playing the champion correctly, relying on it will of course severely reduce any potential efficiency or synergy you may have otherwise had on the champion.

Likewise her ultimate is not solely a damage tool, it comes in a two part effect, in one that it makes her extremely difficult to defeat in a 1v1, allowing her to escape with miniscule health, or to claim victory in an otherwise unwinnable circumstance. Utilizing it properly you do not always have to kill an enemy to get it's full effectiveness out, this is true for assassins in general. Their usually decried focus is to kill the enemy carries, in actuality however there purpose is merely to eliminate them. Forcing the enemy ADC out of a fight by nearly killing them, and then escaping alive yourself without expending any more resources than necessary, can quite easily turn a fight or a game into your favor. You do not always have to kill a target in order to remove them from the equation, sometimes you merely need to zone them. If you think her sole job is to zone the enemy target, then again, you most surely are not playing her correctly. Her upfront strength is lesser than most other champions, this is due in great part to her massive potential for flanking opponents and moving unhindered. Though, she has more than enough damage to quite easily wipe out her preferred targets.

AllThoseInFavorOct 20, 20171 votes

the problem is that yes, eve has to prep targets, wait for 2.5 seconds, make sure they're completely alone without support then go in and burst, twitch doesn't. He just pops out of stealth (one with a tiny detect range btw) and nukes you from a mile and a half off with three auto's, then restealths and walks away. One is strictly better than the other at literally every stage and for some reason people think that's ok because one is listed as an assassin so that means their damage has to be hard to use and can only blow up one person, but when ad carries nuke people faster and from range it's ok because they're ad carries and that's their job.