Can You Actually Nerf Lee Sin?

commit an hero·Dec 28, 2014·40 votes·3,347 views

I mean if you gave Lee Sin the same treatment you gave every other champion in this game he wouldn't be dominant in literally every season.

For one, let's talk about his base movement speed. It's 350, that's right boys 350 units. You nerfed Yasuo because he had too much mobility. Why can't we tone it down to like 340 or 345? It seems stupid he gets the second highest base MS with two gap closers.

Also what is with his ulti? It has stupid base damages and considering it has insane amount of utility why does it do stupid damage?

How about his sustain in the jungle? What is the real reason he has lifesteal/spellvamp? Especially spellvamp he's a monk not a freaking magician.

Anything else I'm missing out on?

46 Comments

Chief RollieDec 28, 201414 votes

Lee Sin is powerful and has magical abilities because he is a summ... DAMNIT

SecretAgentHulkDec 28, 20149 votes

Especially spellvamp he's a monk not a freaking magician.

I feel the need to point out that he is a magician, and a freaking powerful one at that. Read his lore.

That said, I have no opinion either way. Lee Sin is not played so much in Bronze, so he is not a pain in my ass.

theragingnerdDec 28, 20142 votes

{quoted}

I feel the need to point out that he is a magician, and a freaking powerful one at that. Read his lore.

That said, I have no opinion either way. Lee Sin is not played so much in Bronze, so he is not a pain in my ass. too bad i have my hands on him :3

Auz the RipperDec 28, 20144 votes

I might remind you that Summoners don't exist any more so Lee sin has no long ever been a freaking magician

NarasimhaDec 28, 20142 votes

I might remind you that** Summoners** don't exist any more

so Lee sin has no long ever been a freaking magician

Because Summoners were the only people who could use magic.

Auz the RipperDec 28, 20142 votes

The current "outdated" lore says he was training to become a summoner

Which no longer exist

NarasimhaDec 28, 20142 votes

And somehow, you still missed the point.

Ok, so he's no longer a summoner. That just means you have to replace the word 'Summoner' with 'Magician'. and NOTHING changes.

GunpointDec 29, 20141 votes

{quoted}

Because Summoners were the only people who could use magic.

So then his lore is changed to "Lee Sin went to Hogwarts but did some bad shit so now he's a monk"

NinjaToad99Dec 29, 20141 votes

He got Leviosa wrong and was so ashamed he burned his eyes out. True story.

SecretAgentHulkDec 28, 20142 votes

Well if he was never a magician, then I guess he never became a monk to atone for his big-ass magical mistake, so I guess he's not a monk either. It's arguable that he never became blind either, since the only logical reason to protest Noxus' invasion of Ionia was because there was a way to settle conflicts sans invasion. Why would he set himself on fire to protest simple military invasion/occupation?

So I guess Lee Sin is just a guy who lives in a village somewhere. GG Rito.

Or... most of the same things happened to him, but outside the context of the IoW. He's still a magician, and probably still a summoning one. Just not one that wants to summon in the IoW.

acutebunnysDec 28, 20141 votes

I wonder who would set themselves on fire to protest military invasion.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Th%C3%ADch_Qu%E1%BA%A3ng_%C4%90%E1%BB%A9c

ImHerVoiceDec 28, 20141 votes

this statement hurt my braincells.

don't post on the forums, you're hurting me.

Auz the RipperDec 28, 20142 votes

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/1/18154/902308-50.png

BudupopsDec 28, 20149 votes

#lcsbigplays

PrinceOfStormsDec 28, 201418 votes

{quoted}

#lcsbigplays

I see your #lcspigplays and raise you one

LLL-----CCCCC------SSSS---------------BBBBB----IIIIIIIII----GGGG----PPPPPP--LLL-----AAAAA--YY------YY---SSSS LLL-----CC--------------SS--------------------BB----BB------III------GG-----------PP---PPP-LLL-----AA---AA---YY---YY-----SS LLL-----CC----------------SS------------------BBBBB-------III------GG--GGG-PPPPP----LLL-----AAAAA-----YYYY--------SS LLL-----CC------------------SS----------------BB----BB-----III-------GG---GG--PP-----------LLL-----AA---AA-------YY-------------SS LLLLL-CCCCC-----SSSS---------------BBBBB----IIIIIIII-----GGGGG--PP-----------LLLLL-AA---AA-------YY---------SSSS

Rustling BushDec 28, 20147 votes

i havent seen a lee sin circle jerk in awhile... it was good while it lasted

SecretAgentHulkDec 28, 20144 votes

Yeah, it was nice to see people complain about Fizz and Zed for a couple days instead. Although if one more person says LC$BIGPLAYS I may punch a kitten.

DO YOU HEAR THAT SUMMONERS?! EVERY TIME YOU BLAME LEE SIN ON LCSBIGPLAYS A KITTEN DIES!

DiostukosDec 28, 20144 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, it was nice to see people complain about Fizz and Zed for a couple days instead. Although if one more person says LC$BIGPLAYS I may punch a kitten.

DO YOU HEAR THAT SUMMONERS?! EVERY TIME YOU BLAME LEE SIN ON LCSBIGPLAYS A KITTEN DIES!

I like dogs, so.

SecretAgentHulkDec 28, 20141 votes

I WILL GLARE AT A PUPPY JUST FOR YOU

themachamp2Dec 28, 20143 votes

lee sin is one of the most entertaining champions to watch on the lcs. hence...#lcsbigplays. Can you imagine how bored the crowd/viewers will be if they have to see something non flashy? WW vs nunu jungle = crowd falls asleep = #nopayday for riot/e-sports = better buff( or at least not meaningfully nerf) the high mobility flashy champs = #keepleesinastheposterboy for this genre

themachamp2Dec 28, 20141 votes

in a way, riot has to think like tv producers, so they will help whatever brings in the money to help out the e-sports. Imo.

AbyssphereDec 28, 20142 votes

{quoted}

lee sin is one of the most entertaining champions to watch on the lcs. hence...#lcsbigplays. Can you imagine how bored the crowd/viewers will be if they have to see something non flashy? WW vs nunu jungle = crowd falls asleep = #nopayday for riot/e-sports = better buff( or at least not meaningfully nerf) the high mobility flashy champs = #keepleesinastheposterboy for this genre

I don't really understand comments like this. There aren't any champions who don't do anything flashy. Would you really find an amazing Nunu ult boring to watch? I wouldn't. And you fail to realise people also get bored of seeing the same things repeatedly: there has to come a time when "people like to see Lee Sin" becomes a poor excuse - am I really the only one bored of seeing his "amazing" plays? It's the same crap every time.

themachamp2Dec 29, 20141 votes

an amazing nunu ult(if there is such a thing) is no where near as flashy as a....flash,..w...kick...q+q on the enemy adc from a lee sin. You know the crowd goes crazy for the flashy plays as opposed to a nunu walking up and snowballing someone.

Like it or not they need viewers to get increase ratings, which in turn, increases revenue. If the matches are boring to watch then people wont watch it(aside from the die hard fans).

Guy Fox TeemoDec 28, 20141 votes

{quoted}

lee sin is one of the most entertaining champions to watch on the lcs. hence...#lcsbigplays. Can you imagine how bored the crowd/viewers will be if they have to see something non flashy? WW vs nunu jungle = crowd falls asleep = #nopayday for riot/e-sports = better buff( or at least not meaningfully nerf) the high mobility flashy champs = #keepleesinastheposterboy for this genre

Did you know Riot Loses money doing the Lcs :D?

themachamp2Dec 29, 20141 votes

Then thats more of a reason for them to try to turn a profit XD

MetalGearTeemuDec 28, 20142 votes

Lee Sin and Orianna have both enjoyed fairly nerf free lives. Lee sin fits the LCSBIGPLAYSLULULU~ nonsense, but Ori's ability to shuck the nerf bat has always been odd in my opinion.

commit an heroDec 28, 20142 votes

I just like to point out no one has really made any actually good discussion behind why he is allowed to stay in this state. Except for all the #LCSBIGPLAYS.

Okay, even if he is a magician why does he need more sustain? I remember a comment a while back and I can't find it. But it basically said that when he had armor it was reactive but now that it's just shield and life/sustain it's literally there to just keep him healthier than you.

I do think his kit is extremely cohesive, we can't deny that. But he isn't paying for all this mobility he has. I wouldn't care if A) he had his mobility nerfed or B) his damaged nerfed.

OrdersDec 28, 20142 votes

Since they removed Kha'Zix's % missing health from his evolved Q I think they should do the same with Lee Sin. Removing that % health would mean he needs to build more damage to compensate.

Also, yes, lower his base movement speed for the same reason why they nerfed Yasuo's MS.

His scaling on multiple abilities are also relatively high so I'd lower the scaling of them.

BigMac69Dec 28, 20141 votes

[{quoted}](name=Prime Tempest,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TIItl6Aj,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2014-12-28T20:43:39.238+0000)

Since they removed Kha'Zix's % missing health from his evolved Q I think they should do the same with Lee Sin. Removing that % health would mean he needs to build more damage to compensate.

Also, yes, lower his base movement speed for the same reason why they nerfed Yasuo's MS.

His scaling on multiple abilities are also relatively high so I'd lower the scaling of them.

This would literally nerf LeeSin into oblivion

Enraged PigletDec 28, 20142 votes

hahaha, You cant nerf Xaer- I mean Lee sin, after being undefeated in Quake 3 he has come to plague summoners rift with his op map hacks and mobility.

-on a side note I think Riot needs to make a skin for lee sin based of that and when he dies or kills someone I think there corpse should explode.

BeatzBoyFTWDec 28, 20141 votes

It is called spell vamp, not magic vamp, meaning it isn't necessary needs to be an AP move to proc spell vamps, therefore, pretty much all of his moves, or spells, procs the spell vamps.

And second, what I do like to nerf is his Q. Change the % missing health damage to flat damage, like, lower flat damage. The way it uses as an assassinating move after hitting the first wave is just stupid. It should be widely known to be use as just a mobility skill, that's it.

SkorzenDec 28, 20141 votes

I think this comment will immediately be down voted but in my opinion Lee Sin is pretty week right now. He literally just doesn't have enough sustain in the jungle to keep up anymore. His damage scaling could possible be nerfed. In terms of his mobility you really cant do anything about it without completely breaking him. The best way to nerf his mobility would be to reduce his movement speed but other than that his q range is strong but not game breaking. An extension on its cd would probably be the best nerf for it. The w literally can not be nerfed right now. As I said his sustain is pretty weak right now and extending w cool down would worsen it and on top of that the range isnt abnormally large on it. Idk Lee sin just feels obsolete now with the new jungle and doesn't do as well as other junglers could.

MrSexyHoboDec 28, 20141 votes

try using wukong or eve then say lee is hurting in the jungle. one of his most viable damage items has lifesteal in it meaning you can build a vamp septer early giving lee infinite sustain with w and by the time you build a hydra it will already have payed for itself. that however is assuming you dont just put 2 points in your w early on and have great sustain anyway. all junglers got indirect nerfs to sustain and i would say that lee is doing better than 80% of the other junglers in this new jungle as far as clearing goes

NielarkenDec 28, 20141 votes

Dont worry guys riot has a plan you know all these new champs ( Kalista Azir Gnar Yasuo ) they all have something that lee can already do, riot is warming up to make a champ so broken that lee wont be the most broken champ in the game anymore therefor he will get a nerf without getting a nerf!

XenohazDec 28, 20141 votes

That's a bit like removing a wart with a shotgun, don't you think?

NielarkenDec 28, 20144 votes

no no see you add more warts so that people forget about the old wart so that you dont have to remove any warts

Lt CuddlesDec 28, 20141 votes

He should have his ranges shortened abit, they should tweak it back, and see how he plays, also remove the spellvamp.

Mr Wright IIDec 28, 20141 votes

Welcome to rito my friend

SeargentAnusDec 28, 20141 votes

I'm actually happy where Lee Sin is at the moment. They took away a ton of his late game power with his last nerfs. He's actually quite difficult to close out games with now.

GunpointDec 29, 20141 votes

How about we deal with this first... Zed

commit an heroDec 29, 20141 votes

{quoted}

How about we deal with this first...

Honestly they just need to revert the nerf with his shadows. I'd rather get tripled shurikened then have him teleport 3 screens away after killing me.