CT doesn't make the worst champs. CT doesn't make the biggest balancing nightmares.

chipndip1·Feb 1, 2018·6 votes·537 views

The guy that made Teemo made Ezreal, Malzahar, Kog'Maw, and Tristana.

You guys pick on CT because he's known. Whoever this Colt Hallam guy is has made multiple meta warping champions, with one in particular being so ridiculous that the game's overall itemization has to be special cased and rearranged just for him...and that champion is freaking named after this guy's tag.

Just trying to offer a different pov on the whole CT circle jerk.

25 Comments

KVbqbFsC8eFeb 1, 20183 votes

Not really a valid comparison if you're going to bring up champions made in 2009 when the game was new, back when new champs would be released every month. And even if you want to use those champions as an argument, it has virtually nothing to do with the fact that CertainlyT does indeed make balancing nightmares.

Kai GuyFeb 1, 20181 votes

Its entirely vailid. Ez made more issue champs then CT has made champs. They where balance issues at the time, several have been balance issues even in recent memory. Dude made champs from 2009 till 2014.

Are Thresh Zyra Warwick rework and Darius currently causing issues? Yasuo apart from being frustrating as hell for some folks really causing a Balance problem? (fair to say he makes a low fun problem )

KVbqbFsC8eFeb 1, 20182 votes

I don't think its a very good example to use CertainlyT champions after years of nerfs as examples of him not creating problematic champions. Thresh was an issue for about a year after constant nerfs. Why not mention Kalista, who has been virtually impossible to balance since release due to her kit?

SEKAIFeb 1, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TB3EjyET,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-02-01T08:47:37.502+0000)

Its entirely vailid. Ez made more issue champs then CT has made champs. They where balance issues at the time, several have been balance issues even in recent memory. Dude made champs from 2009 till 2014.

Are rework and currently causing issues? apart from being frustrating as hell for some folks really causing a Balance problem? (fair to say he makes a low fun problem )

Zyra received one of the biggest nerf the game has ever seen right after the release, and was reworked later. It was a joint project of 3 people but still.
Darius was reworked after release, for being too hard to balance as well as having literally 0 identity because he was way too similar to Garen. The rework added an identity of his own, ie the passive stat mechanics.
Zed which while wasn't devised by CT but was completed by him, was also reworked not long after release.
Morde rework was also sent through another mini rework and a billion balance changes and he still has another major rework coming up because the rework addressed none of the problem and has only made more problems for him.
Kalista was immediately gutted and reworked after release because of how broken she was, and still viewed as a champ who is literally impossible to balance.
Thresh was nerfed like a billion times, in order to prevent him being 100% pick ban every single match and he's still strong. And he has a shit ton of design issues in his kit because his kit is a complete rip off of Blitzcrank.
Yasuo has an annoucned mini rework coming up. And his kit was clearly a rip off of Riven.
And Zoe... you know how fucked up her kit is. Her entire design is made up by components that each got other champs completely reworked for, all packed into 1 single champion.
Cait rework was also a ton of bulls, which got her gutted into a state worse than where she was pre-rework.

The only things that's actually good is WW rework, the rework that was merely a kit update rather than a rework, and the ammo system, which is needed to balance some marksmen champs.

And that's pretty much it, that's their entire library to date; almost all of which completely broken shit that require immediate and sometimes multiple premature reworks, and/or being gutted because of how unbalanceable almost all of his stuff have always been.

Ezreal had it worse? I don't think so. Also, it's very unfair to put his designs that way because many of which have been broken because of items and runes/masteries balancing scene of a given season in League's history, but not necessarily because of them being innately broken; this is however not the case with CT's design, who have an extreme tendency to violate game balance at the fundamental and core design level.

Not to mention, even if we were to lynch Ezreal, at least Ezreal is not some cannibalistic guy who only ever creates champs based on other existing champ on the roster already; the same can't be said about CT where almost everything they've pitched so far is clearly half to full rip-off of something else that's in the game already.

ZedUsanGovosFeb 1, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Zed which while wasn't devised by CT but was completed by him, was also reworked not long after release.

CT only put the third shadow idea on Zed. He didn't do jackshit for Zed. Samizul did the majority of the work, and during his honeymoon, the rest of the team picked up here and there, but Zed was more or less finished without CT.

"CertainlyT helped out with some bugfixing and a design pitch here and there toward the end (I think the third shadow from the ult was his idea? I wasn't in design yet, just visiting the office for my interviews)." - DanielZKlein in a Reddit post.

The majority of the work was from Samizul. That's that. A few bugfixes and the third shadow isn't enough to credit CT for Zed. Secondly, there was no rework after he was released. Not even a small Azir-level change. The only major changes were to his ult making him ghosted and having him emerge out of untargetability behind his target. That was in 4.14. Zed released in 1.0.0.151. And later, the Death Mark Shadow Swap was delayed to 1 second in 5.9. After that, the only other major addition that could be somewhat considered a "rework", was the removal of the bonus damage from W which was added onto his Ultimate as the "Reaper Of Shadows" passive in 6.22.

chipndip1Feb 1, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Big Piece,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TB3EjyET,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-02-01T08:22:08.653+0000)

Not really a valid comparison if you're going to bring up champions made in 2009 when the game was new, back when new champs would be released every month. And even if you want to use those champions as an argument, it has virtually nothing to do with the fact that CertainlyT does indeed make balancing nightmares.

Difference: This guy's champs are some of the worst in the game, balance wise, to this day. Even after reworks and balancing changes, they're still obnoxious to the entire community. Meanwhile, lets call for CT to get fired for developing a champ with a 47% low elo win rate.

chipndip1Feb 2, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Big Piece,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TB3EjyET,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-02-01T08:22:08.653+0000)

And even if you want to use those champions as an argument, it has virtually nothing to do with the fact that CertainlyT does indeed make balancing nightmares.

No more than any other designer's made. This Ezreal guy's way worse. No one's ever been on record from Riot saying a CT champ was a mistake. Meanwhile, Vlad...who this Ezreal guy made...

OxyrottenFeb 1, 20183 votes

Teemo has historically been underpowered, he has only been decent other than a counterpick this last season or two. Ezreal is just strong due to mastery abuse. There's nothing wrong with malzahar. Kog'maw is just the new fotm to bitch about. Trist, there's nothing to say about trist.

Jinx HunterFeb 1, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Teemo has historically been underpowered, he has only been decent other than a counterpick this last season or two. Ezreal is just strong due to mastery abuse. There's nothing wrong with malzahar. Kog'maw is just the new fotm to bitch about. Trist, there's nothing to say about trist.

You just lost all credibility with all of those statements.

OxyrottenFeb 1, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jinx Hunter,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TB3EjyET,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-02-01T08:42:18.316+0000)

You just lost all credibility with all of those statements.

Prove me wrong.

Kai GuyFeb 1, 20181 votes

Burden of proof is on you.

Edit. I will take the bait. Teemo is a hated champion, Global taunt. Ez lizard elder + blue where not mastery abuse. Malz is unfun for a lot of people, something that's frequently bought up in conversations about Yas as a problem. Kog has been FOTM several times, protect the kog comps been viable strat to win in a few seasons now. Trist caused issues last season, has caused some issues this season.

OxyrottenFeb 1, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TB3EjyET,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-01T17:38:54.636+0000)

Burden of proof is on you.

Not really, I presented my speculation and she rebutted it by failing to refute anything?

Besides this isn't court or a collegic setting.

chipndip1Feb 1, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Teemo has historically been underpowered, he has only been decent other than a counterpick this last season or two. Ezreal is just strong due to mastery abuse. There's nothing wrong with malzahar. Kog'maw is just the new fotm to bitch about. Trist, there's nothing to say about trist.

You're VERY short-sighted with a response like this.

OxyrottenFeb 1, 20183 votes

{quoted}

You're VERY short-sighted with a response like this.

Oh ok lol.

And just fyi I am near-sighted, not short-sighted.

chipndip1Feb 1, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Oh ok lol.

And just fyi I am near-sighted, not short-sighted.

No, short-sighted. As in you can't see the big picture and you don't have much foresight.

OxyrottenFeb 1, 20183 votes

{quoted}

No, short-sighted. As in you can't see the big picture and you don't have much foresight.

But that doesn't make sense. I'm not complaining about Teemos or Tristana.

chipndip1Feb 1, 20181 votes

{quoted}

But that doesn't make sense. I'm not complaining about Teemos or Tristana.

I'll explain in full in a few hours. In class atm.

chipndip1Feb 2, 20181 votes

{quoted}

But that doesn't make sense. I'm not complaining about Teemos or Tristana.

Now that I'm back: The issue with this guy's champs is that

Ezreal : Is the biggest problem champ when it comes to this game's itemization. He finds his way into abusing nearly anything with an on-hit.

Tristana : A hyper-carry with a huge, resetting gap closer that can be timed to bs her way out of hard lock down situations.

Teemo : Bloody obnoxious top laner that has virtually 0 counter-play outside of disabling his ult, and he doesn't even use that actively in most engagements. If he was ever viable beyond cheesing solo queue, solo queue itself would be caught up in a swamp of salt and tears...if not at least the top lane.

KogMaw : Has been and still is fucking ridiculous with a Lulu on him. He doesn't even have a niche. He just "is a hyper carry". He's bland as hell, and his kit doesn't lend itself to being workable into something that isn't just a shit ton of AAs from a mile away.

: Also had his hand in release Kassadin, apparently. That just speaks for itself.

Vladimir : The only champion Riot's ever come out and said was a fucking mistake. Vlad's the primary reason Riot had to do away with spell vamp as a stat.

Many of this guy's champs are relatively generic and still manage to be major balancing concerns even from way back when to now. Yeah, different champs become and cease being op or problematic, but this guy's champs have a knack of continually driving everyone insane to this day, and yet people give CT a hard time because "muh sleepy bubble trouble", while disregarding the fact that a ton of people actually jive with his designs.

Beacon AcademyFeb 1, 20183 votes

I would like to point out that old Malzahar got one nerf (2% off W/Null Zone due to Deathfire Touch) in 5-6 years.

He wasn't complained about constantly despite his 52-54% winrate because he had a low playrate (3-4%)

Even with his stronger flat damage Ult Even with his stronger Q/E Even with his Tanky AD Voidlings

Just like how Anivia is not complained about right now. despite the 53-54% winrate. She has a low 3ish% playrate

It wasn't till David Capurro (Riot Repertoir) reworked Malzahar for the MYMU in patch 6.9 that Malzahar broke for a year before the pseudo-revert. To this day he is still hated across the rift.

oOBestEveNAOoFeb 1, 20183 votes

Thresh, Yas, Kalista, and Zoe are 4 of the most overloaded champions ever designed and some really really poor design philosophy.

Malz wasn't ever an issue until the rework gave him a free spellshield.

Kog is only an issue because scripts exist. If forced to play honest there are a number of ways to defeat him tactically and strategically and only one real way to win with him (protect the kog).

Trist is actually a prime example of a balanced champion in terms of design philosophy. Minus the resets. Resetting abilities are never fair. Never will be. They bypass the prime gating mechanism of cool downs. If her rocket jump required 2 kills or assists to reset she'd be perfectly balanced. Essentially she's why all "reset" champs should instead have "cd reduction for x% on kill or assist" rather than a complete reset.

The freelo explorer is just busted. Being able to outrange the poke of essentially every other ADC while also being safer than every other ADC is going to make for a busted design concept no matter what. If his Q had 200 less unit range or so he'd be almost garbage tier however, and he's easy enough to deal with at a strategic level because he's forced to team fight and essentially loses duels to anything and everything that can jump him.

Kali has to have all her numbers tuned super low because she breaks the mobility game.

Yas is the same.

Zoe has all her damage frontloaded onto a spell, which was a problem for nid except nid didn't ever have any CC, let alone one of the hands down best CC spells in the game.

Thresh can just do everything. That much utility packed into one package was always going to be a problem, but he's super fun to play with and against, so I'll cut some slack here.

There's a lot to complain about from both designers tbh.

FCJAAAAGOOOOFeb 1, 20182 votes

List a S1 champion that wasn't ever meta-warping in some aspect.

chipndip1Feb 1, 20181 votes

{quoted}

List a S1 champion that wasn't ever meta-warping in some aspect.

The issue is that this guy's champs still are.

Tristana Ezreal KogMaw

AFilthyCaitMainFeb 1, 20181 votes

He also helped design Vlad, Singed, Nasus, Yi, etc.

Although I dont dare hate on him since he designed cait.

Kai GuyFeb 1, 20181 votes

To be fair Colt has worked on like 20+ champs. Far as the CT tilt personlay its hard to not view it as BS Cjerk when most folks cant even tell you the Dev behind their most hated champs. How many years has Lee sin been bitched about? Vayne? Always just the champs lol.

On the topic of Colt you also might want to list the following as also being balance issues. Nasus Kassadin Jax Blitzcrank I think his most recent work was Ahri in 2014? I don't hate colt, some of his champs yes but plenty of them have gotten to a good spot in the game.

Far as CT as a Dev, cant say I hate his approach even when I freaking hate the champ.

"Well, I think the issue is that many designers, myself included, come up with a core set of abilities and then use the remaining holes to give the champion something they need to correct a weakness of limitation in their kit. This gets the job done, but the abilities we create to fill that role end up being more effective than they are satisfying.

I prefer for abilities to generate choice within a gamer's play pattern. A great example of a champion that succeeds on this front is Brand. All of this Blaze abilities generate new options for how he can order his spells to optimize his performance.

As to our process of selecting abilities for a kit, it is mostly brainstorm, code, have other designers play it, collect feedback, blow the ability up and repeat. Our champions generally go through 25-30 iterations before we are happy with them." -CT