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I feel like the width of Shyvana's ult should be larger

MarhsallLee67··61 votes·2,257 views

It gets pretty ridiculous when I'm playing Shyvana and I ult over the entire enemy team, but I only hit one person because everybody else moved an inch to the left or to the right, despite the fact that the actual animation shows me flying over pretty much everyone. Considering the fact that the range isn't that long either, I don't think that increasing the width of the skillshot a bit would hurt that much.

EDIT: Another problem I've noticed is that, unless I'm just seeing things or I suck at Shyvana, Shyvana does not drag enemies the full distance of her ultimate, so if you (Shyvana) ult the full distance, you could potentially end up farther away from your opponent than you originally were. I've had games where I landed my ultimate, but they were only knocked back a fraction of the distance before they could move again, and so I would end up having to struggle to get back to them.

28 Comments

Sire Hippington4 votes

if feel like the width off the ult is her least problem^^ i'd like to see her all targets getting draged the full distance and most of all her becomeing cc imune duering the flight(like malph ult) befor the hit box gets increased.

Reazale2 votes

My friend made a point about this once so i think i will point it out even tho i like Shyvana. He said something like "The leap of her ult is kind of secondary , just a part , the most important part is the change to her normal skills" so even if they stopped ur dash , u still have the improved skills, but if malph/vi (dont think im defending her) , this is just an example/hec/etc ults could be stopped , what would they have left after it? just normal skills and no ult.

Sire Hippington1 votes

the problem is that shys dragonform boni look nice on paper, but are of little use in pratice. all she gains is aditional aoe for her skills, nothing more, but that doesn't help if you would need to be close to multiple enemys to use it but your prettymuch only tool to get there can easily be stoped and is on a massive cd afterwards.

Her ult is the only reliable way to get anywhere, if it fails shy is far more useless than a vi or malph will ever be. It's also pretty sad to see a mighty dragon dash towards a draven and stopping mid air because of his E, or getting stoped by a Heca E. Those things totally destroy the mighty Dragon fantasy shy and her ult should offer.

Celeste Benal3 votes

Shyv needs a semi-rework. Not total. Just some changes to make her kit more interesting and viable compared to other jungle champs. Her dragon form is very underwhelming, and as you say, actually using it gives you very little other than a sudden scare when she jumps a wall to drop-in on the other team's back-line carries.

Shyvana's Q and W both scale off of AD. W does magic damage while Q does physical damage. But her E and R scale off of AP. Her E, when it hits (skillshot), gives 2% bonus magic damage to her AAs based on the hit champs's max hp. Essentially, no form of itemization is efficient on Shyvana except tank because her scaling is all over the place and she has a passive armor/MR buff that is doubled while in dragon form. Split scaling is bad, m'kay?

In short, Shyvana lacks focus and a clearly defined identity.

The other consideration is to make her dragon form more distinguished from her human form. Currently, her dragon abilities are very underwhelming and do nothing different other than a semi-AoE. The Flame Breath isn't even a true cone! It's 5 projectiles fired at angles in front of her. Her Q has no visible effect at all! They need to be more identifiable with being a dragon, rather than just slightly different from human form. This does not necessarily mean more powerful.

First I would change Dragon's Decent damage scaling to do physical damage based on her hp. She's a dragon jumping on top of someone. Why does it do AP scaling damage? Makes no sense. %HP would synergize much better when she builds tanky.

Next, give her Q a passive that stacks hp based on monster and champ kills. If she last hits with it, she gets a stack. Give some HP for each stack.

Second, she needs something to distinguish her while she is in dragon form. She is a dragon! Why she no fly? Make her dragon-form W a gap-closer/escape such that she leaps and glides a distance similar to Corki's Valkyrie. Leave the AoE flames and speed boost as they are. If the speed boost got removed I wouldn't cry. The leap would be compensation enough I think. But honestly, DRAGON! She should be bigger and faster than those puny humans puttering around under her feet.

These changes would reward Shyvana players for building along her best stats, as well as allow meaningful and focused itemization, rather than having some of this and some of that. It would also distinguish her dragon form from her human form in meaningful and clearly appropriate ways without being OP. The gap closer in dragon form would make her very sticky in ganks, something she currently lacks.

It would not allow her to gank any easier pre-6. But that is not necessarily a bad thing. It simply means that that part of her identity stays the same. She will continue to be a tanky farming jungler that leaps in and disrupts the enemy team with subpar AoE melee dps. But her ganks will have some teeth (pun intended), her dragon abilities will actually have value, and she will have an escape/gap-closer.

Power-wise, I think this would put her just below Jax, but focused more on AoE than on soloing.

MarhsallLee671 votes

This is something that has always bothered me about Shyvana. Although the mixed damage on abilities is good in top lane since it makes it hard for your opponent to completely negate your damage via itemization, you can never fully utilize her kit and, like you said, Shyvanas usually end up having to build tank for the most part.

Danica17081 votes

[{quoted}](name=Celeste Benal,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T9EgKPFG,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2015-02-17T18:13:54.505+0000)

Shyv needs a semi-rework. Not total. Just some changes to make her kit more interesting and viable compared to other jungle champs. Her dragon form is very underwhelming, and as you say, actually using it gives you very little other than a sudden scare when she jumps a wall to drop-in on the other team's back-line carries.

Shyvana's Q and W both scale off of AD. W does magic damage while Q does physical damage. But her E and R scale off of AP. Her E, when it hits (skillshot), gives 2% bonus magic damage to her AAs based on the hit champs's max hp. Essentially, no form of itemization is efficient on Shyvana except tank because her scaling is all over the place and she has a passive armor/MR buff that is doubled while in dragon form. Split scaling is bad, m'kay?

In short, Shyvana lacks focus and a clearly defined identity.

The other consideration is to make her dragon form more distinguished from her human form. Currently, her dragon abilities are very underwhelming and do nothing different other than a semi-AoE. The Flame Breath isn't even a true cone! It's 5 projectiles fired at angles in front of her. Her Q has no visible effect at all! They need to be more identifiable with being a dragon, rather than just slightly different from human form. This does not necessarily mean more powerful.

First I would change Dragon's Decent damage scaling to do physical damage based on her hp. She's a dragon jumping on top of someone. Why does it do AP scaling damage? Makes no sense. %HP would synergize much better when she builds tanky.

Next, give her Q a passive that stacks hp based on monster and champ kills. If she last hits with it, she gets a stack. Give some HP for each stack.

Second, she needs something to distinguish her while she is in dragon form. She is a dragon! Why she no fly? Make her dragon-form W a gap-closer/escape such that she leaps and glides a distance similar to Corki's Valkyrie. Leave the AoE flames and speed boost as they are. If the speed boost got removed I wouldn't cry. The leap would be compensation enough I think. But honestly, DRAGON! She should be bigger and faster than those puny humans puttering around under her feet.

These changes would reward Shyvana players for building along her best stats, as well as allow meaningful and focused itemization, rather than having some of this and some of that. It would also distinguish her dragon form from her human form in meaningful and clearly appropriate ways without being OP. The gap closer in dragon form would make her very sticky in ganks, something she currently lacks.

It would not allow her to gank any easier pre-6. But that is not necessarily a bad thing. It simply means that that part of her identity stays the same. She will continue to be a tanky farming jungler that leaps in and disrupts the enemy team with subpar AoE melee dps. But her ganks will have some teeth (pun intended), her dragon abilities will actually have value, and she will have an escape/gap-closer.

Power-wise, I think this would put her just below Jax, but focused more on AoE than on soloing.

Actually, Shyvana's mixed damage makes her hard to protect against. Pick up a item 3153 and build tanky and you're golden. Attack speed synergyzes well with her kit because her Q's cooldown is lowered whenever she hits something, her W's duration is extended, and she gets E procs more often, plus, with item 3153 you deal more damage because of the % health shred in addition to that already in your kit. Her W especially is really good actually because it scales with her AD but deals magic damage, so she can build bruiser if she's ahead enough and do damage that you can't easily protect against because of her AA's and her W combination.

She may not have the best gap closer, but she still does have one (W) and I've never really had much problems with damage output if I use that to catch up to people personally. The reason her E and R scale with AP and not AD or her health is because they're not meant to be used for their up front damage. They're meant to be used for their secondary effects. She doesn't need an addition to her kit, it's fine the way it is. She's meant to be a fighter not a tank anyway (according to her labels anyway) so there's that. Her kit is really strong. Her ult just needs to be uninterruptible. She'll be in an amazing position then.

Basically, her mixed damage is one of her strengths, and if her ult was uninterruptible, she would probably be a meta pick.

Borbland2 votes

What shyvana needs imo is being unable to be interrupted when she ults.

I mean, she's a frickin dragon, that got stopped in it's advance by a frickin little ball light what is Taric's E.

Should be like Vi: Completly unstoppable (Except with death ofc)

Else, the width is fine for me, but hey, a little buff on it wouldn't hurt.

ThePlasticSpork1 votes

You honestly might be hitting the other people too, but they just don't get carried because her ult is really wonky and doesn't work properly most of the time.

The5lacker1 votes

Shyv's dash is loads of weirdness, and I think raising the width to beyond just the width of her hips (as nice a booty as she's got) would, though helpful, not be the first thing I'd fix.

BallisticMouse1 votes

It would be nice if it was as wide as Gnar's ult.

MarhsallLee671 votes

Gnar's ult is actually one of the ults that I was thinking of when I made this post- he can knock back (and stun, if used properly) an entire enemy team, meanwhile Shyvana can barely hit one or two people.

Profirix1 votes

Shyv could definitely use something to make her a better pick. Riot seems to want her to be a jungler but I feel like her sustain is crap until you guy a life steal item. I do believe that her damage is in a decent place right now but her ult just seems lackluster and is not that effective in team fights. Ok, it makes her a little bit tankier, but how does it actually aid a team fight? She ends up having to chase down the enemy to do her sustained damage anyway and her ult is a one and done if you intend to use it for peel. I just don't see what she brings to the table.

She has all these extra effects when in dragon form but they dont seem to offer much of anything.

Q - turned into a cleave cone effect. But the range is absolutely horrible. When will this ever be useful unless the enemy team is sitting on top of one another. W - adds burning damage to the ground. Good in theory but it does not do any noticable damage. I couldn't tell you the last time someone was chasing me and suffered a decent amount of damage from it. E - turns into a frontal cone. wonderful in theory. Does ok damage and adds the % magic damage debuff to all enemies hit. BUT, when are you going to auto attack more than ONE person? Supposedly you could combo it with Q, but the circumstances are so rare. R - doubles armor and MR from passive. Ok, this is nice and arguably the only useful addition.

She needs to be given some unique combo options in dragon form, otherwise other champions will always be more useful.

lDontLiftIcarry1 votes

it needs to scale off ad but still be a magic spell. basically like katarina ult. espically considering her scaling on other spells isn't that great and her ult damage is piss poor anyway. having like 40~ extra damage by level 16 because it scakles with ad isn't going to break a champion that uses ult to engage/run anyway lmao.

Tilted Top Laner1 votes

Just add a slowing mechanic to her E, and I'm pretty sure she'd become somewhat viable.

kunkudunk5 votes

That would make no sense tough. It is literally just her breathing fire.

tofutime4 votes

And annie and brand stunning with fire does make sense? Nothing in league makes sense anyways. This is a non argument.

kunkudunk2 votes

the stunning with fire kinda makes sense (at least for brand) if you think of it like an explosion. granted knockbacks make more sense with explosions but we don't need more of those.

tofutime1 votes

If tryndamere can make fun of a guy running away and that slows them down then I'm pretty sure Shyvanna's E can slow if you put your imagination to it.

Tentacle Love2 votes

{quoted}

That would make no sense tough. It is literally just her breathing fire.

Have you ever set someone on fire before? Did it not slow them down?

hashinshin4 votes

no it just made them run around fast.

Ice Weasel X1 votes

It makes it so ninjas can't catch them.

kunkudunk1 votes

I tend to avoid igniting people in my life. But from a gaming standpoint, cold stuff usually slows, not fire, and half the time fire removes said cold based slows (thawing in pokemon). fire sometimes does dots or panics things but it slowing is rather uncommon in games. And by that logic, when you shot someone with a shotgun (a la graves) did it not slow them down?

Tentacle Love1 votes

{quoted}

...And by that logic, when you shot someone with a shotgun (a la graves) did it not slow them down?

Well yeah, they were dead.

kunkudunk1 votes

Well yes, but when they tried to walk were they slower? Cause if so I want graves to slow on autos just like ashe. It would only make sense.

Tentacle Love1 votes

{quoted}

Well yes, but when they tried to walk were they slower? Cause if so I want graves to slow on autos just like ashe. It would only make sense.

Contrary to what you may have expected from so many zombie movies and tv shows and video games, dead people do indeed move slower than living people.

kunkudunk1 votes

So it's official. Slow on graves's autos needs to happen now. Glad we can reach this conclusion :D

Robby Dawg1 votes

I feel Rito just took Shyvana and said, hmm, minor changes, GNAR! And gnar is broken strong compared to shyvana.

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