ranked performance LP system idea

VICKLIUS·Jan 29, 2018·1 votes·504 views

support win=+#assists Lp, loss= - #deaths jng,mid,top,bot win= +kills+assists(- deaths) respectively, loss= enemy mid,top,jng,bot = - kills -assists + deaths (respectively) this should give a more impactful feel to how well someone plays a role in the game, u do better go up faster, do worse go down faster and could provide a more accurate placement chart. I came up w/ this as a response to a post about someone not liking sup role, and I agree support is unfairly punished for bad teammates an this should help w/ rank climb because of it.

16 Comments

kevin heals youJan 29, 20182 votes

people are complaining about climbing as support because they are bad with it that's all. you can easily climb to challenger playing nothing but support soloq its not reliant on team at all no position is

Fargo79Jan 29, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=kevin heals you,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T6kgAYU3,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-01-29T07:06:11.389+0000)

people are complaining about climbing as support because they are bad with it that's all. you can easily climb to challenger playing nothing but support soloq its not reliant on team at all no position is

R U kidding?? its simple to climb in a role where u play babysitter the entire time?? the reason they cant is cause they arent good at it?? show me the data pls on your statement.. no matter how good a support u r.. if the rest of your team isnt on the same page then its VERY hard to win a game.. low elos like bronze-lower end gold is entirely dependent on at least 2/3 lanes being ahead or even in the very least.. cause we all know there is no more late game to hold out for a nas to get his stacks up if he has a bad early to mid game..

i have had plenty of average to good games as support this season and still lost max LP.. so no it isnt EASY as u put it to climb to diamond as a support..

kevin heals youJan 29, 20181 votes

{quoted}

R U kidding?? its simple to climb in a role where u play babysitter the entire time?? the reason they cant is cause they arent good at it?? show me the data pls on your statement.. no matter how good a support u r.. if the rest of your team isnt on the same page then its VERY hard to win a game.. low elos like bronze-lower end gold is entirely dependent on at least 2/3 lanes being ahead or even in the very least.. cause we all know there is no more late game to hold out for a nas to get his stacks up if he has a bad early to mid game..

i have had plenty of average to good games as support this season and still lost max LP.. so no it isnt EASY as u put it to climb to diamond as a support..

i climbed to challenger as support very easily and many many people have. its not any harder then other roles if you can't do it you just simply aren't as good as you think you are that's all there is to it.

Fargo79Jan 29, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=kevin heals you,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T6kgAYU3,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-01-29T08:07:51.694+0000)

i climbed to challenger as support very easily and many many people have. its not any harder then other roles if you can't do it you just simply aren't as good as you think you are that's all there is to it.

so you climbed to Challenger.. congrats.. but that also means you are in the top what 5% of the gaming community?? so really you cant say its EASY when obviously you are way ahead of the rest of the community as far as skill goes.. U might have found it easy.. but for us down in elo hell, and yes it does exist.. it isnt as easy as u make it out to be.. specially during the 1st month of season when bad placements get higher Elo players placed lower then they really should be..

Dont get me wrong.. i know im not a diamond player.. im might be a gold player on a good day i guess.. but the loses in ranked when you score an S grade and still get dinged for -20LP but only gain 18-21 LP for wins.. i know it gets better the higher your MMR goes up.. but like i said down here it can be tough to stretch out a few wins in a row.. lol..

kevin heals youJan 29, 20181 votes

{quoted}

so you climbed to Challenger.. congrats.. but that also means you are in the top what 5% of the gaming community?? so really you cant say its EASY when obviously you are way ahead of the rest of the community as far as skill goes.. U might have found it easy.. but for us down in elo hell, and yes it does exist.. it isnt as easy as u make it out to be.. specially during the 1st month of season when bad placements get higher Elo players placed lower then they really should be..

Dont get me wrong.. i know im not a diamond player.. im might be a gold player on a good day i guess.. but the loses in ranked when you score an S grade and still get dinged for -20LP but only gain 18-21 LP for wins.. i know it gets better the higher your MMR goes up.. but like i said down here it can be tough to stretch out a few wins in a row.. lol..

elo hell doesn't exist... the only reason you don't climb out of a elo is because your not improving. i know how it works last season i was stuck d5 but this season i changed my mental to never ever blame teammates and focus 100% on self improvement and ranking up was easy because i got better. you don't climb its because your not getting better thats ALL there is to it

RatpieJan 29, 20181 votes

I think you are oversimplifying it. There is a lot more that goes into it than just your play.

What champ you are playing.
The luck you have in teams
Are you single or duo or full team
Not everybody wants to play the same 2 or 3 champs in each lane. Some champs just will not carry in the current meta. So it matters on the champ you are playing. You can be really good at a weak champion, and you are still gonna have a hard time climbing ranked with them right now. Especially if you want to play something off-meta. If someone plays a lot of off-meta though, people need to realize they are handicapping themselves.
There is some luck into who you pull on your team. When you have 8 games in a row that someone afks, leaves, or ints you are going to struggle to go anywhere. This happens a lot in bronze levels. It is possible (although not likely) that you could go 100 games with someone pulling crap like that. While the averages do line out eventually, that does not guarantee that everybody individually will. Some people will climb fast and get good teams, some are going to hate life, while most will be somewhere in the middle. Simple statistics. This especially happens since the skill level of players in bronze and silver (especially early in the season) are very diverse. I think this luck factor goes down the higher you are up as people are more serious.
If you play as a full team you eliminate the luck draw on the team. Duo can help limit it. Playing solo it is possible to get stuck in ELO hell. Now most people stuck in "ELO hell" is there on their own doing, but some are not. Unless you play with them or watch their game you can't really judge that.

So statistically speaking it is possible for someone to get stuck in "ELO Hell" and there are some factors that can increase or decrease those chances. However, I would say most people are there because of their own play.

kevin heals youJan 29, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I think you are oversimplifying it. There is a lot more that goes into it than just your play.

What champ you are playing.

The luck you have in teams

Are you single or duo or full team

Not everybody wants to play the same 2 or 3 champs in each lane. Some champs just will not carry in the current meta. So it matters on the champ you are playing. You can be really good at a weak champion, and you are still gonna have a hard time climbing ranked with them right now. Especially if you want to play something off-meta. If someone plays a lot of off-meta though, people need to realize they are handicapping themselves.

There is some luck into who you pull on your team. When you have 8 games in a row that someone afks, leaves, or ints you are going to struggle to go anywhere. This happens a lot in bronze levels. It is possible (although not likely) that you could go 100 games with someone pulling crap like that. While the averages do line out eventually, that does not guarantee that everybody individually will. Some people will climb fast and get good teams, some are going to hate life, while most will be somewhere in the middle. Simple statistics. This especially happens since the skill level of players in bronze and silver (especially early in the season) are very diverse. I think this luck factor goes down the higher you are up as people are more serious.

If you play as a full team you eliminate the luck draw on the team. Duo can help limit it. Playing solo it is possible to get stuck in ELO hell. Now most people stuck in "ELO hell" is there on their own doing, but some are not. Unless you play with them or watch their game you can't really judge that.

So statistically speaking it is possible for someone to get stuck in "ELO Hell" and there are some factors that can increase or decrease those chances. However, I would say most people are there because of their own play.

elo hell has been disproven countless times there's absolutely no evidence for its existence.its a self defeating belief if you believe it you won't get better its all in your mind blaming others instead of fixing your mistakes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exVyYXm-Wco&t=30s

RatpieJan 29, 20181 votes

Why does it feel like you did not read or comprehend what I even said? I agreed that it is self imposed for most people, but there is the probability that it can happen to people. I have yet to see some scientific study that shows it can't. Just because a few people tried running it through it and claim it didn't happen to them does not mean it doesn't exist. There are also boundaries for certain champions the people may choose to play.

I am not going to discount other's experiences, just because I have not had it happen to me, that is just arrogance.

kevin heals youJan 29, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Why does it feel like you did not read or comprehend what I even said? I agreed that it is self imposed for most people, but there is the probability that it can happen to people. I have yet to see some scientific study that shows it can't. Just because a few people tried running it through it and claim it didn't happen to them does not mean it doesn't exist. There are also boundaries for certain champions the people may choose to play.

I am not going to discount other's experiences, just because I have not had it happen to me, that is just arrogance.

your using a appeal to probability fallacy, just because its possible does not mean its happening to anyone or has happened to anyone. there's not a single person that has gotten a troll EVERY game that's stopping them from climbing you can't use that as an argument just because its theoretically possible.

VICKLIUSJan 29, 20181 votes

luck does not exist, unless u r referring to not getting idiot teammates that know how to build, play

SubdueJan 29, 20181 votes

Elo Boosters exist in this game. Their very existence is evidence that there's no such thing as Elo Hell. How can you run a business based on climbing the ratings if your ability to climb is dependent on chance?

VICKLIUSJan 30, 20181 votes

can u control who u r team w/ then it is chance that they suck more then other team or the other team is worse

SubdueJan 30, 20181 votes

{quoted}

can u control who u r team w/ then it is chance that they suck more then other team or the other team is worse

There's a chance they don't do as well as your opponents in that particular game, and there's a chance that they do better. That's not about them sucking or not. It's just a result of the game. When things go wrong for Faker and he ends up feeding (relative to other pros), do you take that as him "sucking more than the other team?" Of course not. Everyone on your team, whether they go 10-1 in your game or 1-10, wins about as often as you do playing at the level you're playing at.

Mysticman89Jan 29, 20181 votes

One of my smurfs managed to maintain a 90% winrate on janna up to plat elo or so. Certainly a number of those games were rather lucky ones that shouldn't have been won, but even at 70% that'd still be climbing super quickly.

Supports can absolutely carry games, particularly in metas where the success of bot lane feels particularly important, and it gets even better as you climb elo where the vision control and playmaking nature of supports is better appreciated by teammates.

In any case, people should be rewarded and climb elo for being good at the game (i.e. facilitating the destruction of the enemy nexus), not for being kda players.

VICKLIUSJan 30, 20181 votes

part of being good is having a good kda,going 0/16/0 u probly arnt that good where as 0/0/ 15 u r probly decent

Mysticman89Jan 30, 20181 votes

Probably, but not necessarily.

Theres been strategies with singed and similar where they're 0/16/0 and basically single-handedly carry the game with their constant pressure, and theres plenty of cases of people being 0/0/16 who were basically the reason the game was lost since they're not actually contributing to the victory and only grabbing an assist before running away. The most reliable way to tell the difference is to look at the resulting winrates, which is what the current system does.

If someone is actually contributing more than their fair share towards victory, they'll win more than 50% of the time. How much more will depend on how much better they are and how much more they can hence contribute, not so much their role or their kda.

Theres plenty of people in silver/gold elo who basically play team deathmatch instead of league of legends and get some really spicy kdas, and in some cases are probably much better than I am mechanically even as a diamond, and yet they're hard stuck because they have no idea how to translate that kda/lead into victory, and victory is what being good at league of legends is about.