@Riot: Abandon the Statball Crutch for Yasuo and Aatrox

MrSc0tty··1 votes·792 views

The question "why would I pick this melee carry over a ranged one for my team comp" finally has an answer.

Aatrox: starts with a GA, brings hard cc and a bitchin ult steroid to a teamfight. You can place him Top or Jungle, so he brings role versatility and you can run with an AP hypercarry bot if you want to. Still has major issues RE: surging objectives but can Splitpush which ranged carries cannot do, also Manaless.

Yasuo: brings AOE hard cc and a unique form of team defense-can be played mid, top, jungle or even botlane with certain supports. The picture of what a melee carry should probably be-lose range, but also lose skill downtime and gain utility.

So please Riot, drop the free stats in favor of emphasizing these strengths more. You've nearly broken the iron grip of the ranged carry. Ditch the crit chance and pen on ult off of Yasuo and instead make his passive shield or something scale with him building no defenses. Buff Aatrox into a true melee carry and replace the AD scalings with stronger crit and atkspd scalings.

Then redesign Fiora to fill a similar niche and you might finally, FINALLY have a usable replacement for a ranged ADC who doesn't just morph into an assassin or bruiser.

10 Comments

DocRedgrave3 votes

This is where I blow both your suggestions straight out of the water.

As an Aatrox top main (alongside Renekton), I can tell you he does not scale well whatsoever with crit and he shouldn't even think to go down that path. He also already has an Attack Speed scaling through his passive and it's fine. The only problem with him is his lack of durability on early levels.

I honestly hate anyone who thinks (and demands) for Yasuo's crit chance passive to be removed. This is basically a retooled version of Tryndamere's bonus Crit passive which sacrificed the need to autoattack for crit for reduced damage on crit instead (10% for basic attacks, 25% for his q). If you've got a problem with Yasuo just go play Quinn top lane or Annie mid. Otherwise stop acting like you know what's best for the game. About half this community makes over-the-top responses about changing or nerfing champions on a daily basis and i'm sick of it.

MrSc0tty1 votes

I don't have a problem with Yasuo-I love Yasuo and what he represents.

The biggest problem with LoL currently is that there is NO alternative to a ranged AD carry in a team comp. You cannot fill that niche's impact in teamfights shredding tanks and in sieges bringing down towers with anyone else.

They've tried several times to introduce melee champions who fill similar roles while just bringing more free stats than the ranged carries and it hasn't worked-the melee champions just give up too much for being melee, and if Riot jacks the stats up even further they hit a space where those champs are just better as assassins (overtuned fiora) or as bruisers (overtuned Aatrox). The space of "melee squishy sustained damage carry" is elusive and Yasuo and Aatrox are the hits closest to the mark. They bring things no ranged carry does to a comp and they have the tools to fulfil a similar role.

Currently though Yasuo is in line for another nerf, and what they've done so far is reduce the impact of those unique strengths he brings ( his skills and his passive shield) while leaving the free stats intact. Go one way and you get a cool sustained damage champ who requires skill and mechanics from his player at every stage of the game, go the other and you just end up with Fiora in her current state-they can't make her abilities fun and impactful and up frequently because she's too strong when she just mashes her numbers into you.

DocRedgrave1 votes

she's too strong when she just mashes her numbers into you.

That's the entire concept of an assassin, and you can stop it. Do you have any idea what the trade-off is for an assassin? If what you're saying is true then Shaco would have an enormously high pick rate because he would be considered a late game monster (and we all know he's dead weight for his team during late game even if he's fed). Lock down a target with snares or stuns and they pay the price for diving your AD carry. And there is no way I'll believe Yasuo is getting another nerf considering there hasn't been any discussion among Rioters on the boards that I have heard.

MrSc0tty1 votes

No it isn't. It's the concept for the broken assassins in the game-like Shaco, Akali, and Rengar. ANYONE who just mashes numbers at people is deemed busted and reworked or held purposefully weak.

Look at old Xin. Evelynn. Olaf. Shyvana. Assassins are burst oriented champions who center around destroying an enemy in a single rotation-how they do that differs from champ to champ.

Khazix waits for or creates an opportunity to attack an isolated enemy.

Zed balances risk with reward to bet on a delayed finisher taking someone out.

Fizz relies on a skillshot, a DoT, and a steroid to deal damage with autos and abilities and has an untargetable dash to escape.

There's a difference between a full-targeted number masher like Tristiana and a champion who needs micro to push their damage over the edge like Draven.

Yasuo has the highest ban rate of any champion at the pro level, diamond level and across the KR region.

Hell get his nerfs.

12tales1 votes

I think that Yasuo's target agnosticism with BotRK and his Ult is a pretty defining feature of his playstyle - I'd no sooner see his armor shred removed than Kog'Maw's.

MrSc0tty1 votes

As it stands though he brings too much to the table. All of Yasuo's cool skillful gameplay is removed when at three items he can instantly burst a tank with ult-auto-Q, then he just becomes a Fiora, dull and one dimensional.

And if they opt to keep the free stats in place, he 'll become another Fiora, hard snowballing and Nerfed down to near uselessness by consequence.

Yasuo has hard cc, bursty crit damage, enormous mobility and the windwall, he doesn't also need tank buster as a defining characteristic because we have Yi and others who already full that niche.

12tales1 votes

Yasuo's primary defining characteristic is a tank buster. He's the champion that builds percentage health damage, has percentile armor shred, primarily deals sustained damage, and has the ability to protect himself from distant high damage squishies. None of those facts implies that he should be yet another assassin that ults the backline, gets a kill and dies - he's the champion that chews through your tanks while your ADC watches helplessly.

Removing his Ult Pen - like removing his Wind Wall - would be a huge change to how Yasuo builds and his playstyle in teamfights.

MrSc0tty1 votes

Yasuo's primary defining characteristic is a tank buster. He's the champion that builds percentage health damage, has percentile armor shred, primarily deals sustained damage, and has the ability to protect himself from distant high damage squishies. None of those facts implies that he should be yet another assassin that ults the backline, gets a kill and dies - he's the champion that chews through your tanks while your ADC watches helplessly.

Couple questions.

Why would he build %Health on hit damage when he has no attack speed steroid?

Why would he not build Critical Chance or Attack Speed instead when he has the ability to gain CDR from Atkspd and double crit chance?

If he's not intended to ult backline champions why does his ult have extreme range?

If he's meant to be a person fighting low burst high tankiness enemies why give him an anti-burst defense rather than inbuilt sustain?

Other than the free armor penetration I see no indication that he's intended to be a tank shredder. He has no inbuilt %HP damage anywhere, he's highly mobile, he has an ability that primarily counters squishy ranged targets and a hard gapcloser with brief cc and bursty damage. Those aspects of his kit speak to him being made to fight multiple squishy targets.

12tales2 votes

Why would he build %Health on hit damage when he has no attack speed steroid?

...because his Q procs on-hit effects, his cooldowns scale with attack speed, and it has incredible synergy with his ultimate? BotRK is core on Yasuo, and Shiv->BotRK->IE has been his standard build for months, now.

Why would he not build Critical Chance or Attack Speed instead when he has the ability to gain CDR from Atkspd and double crit chance?

Because he has six item slots, and only needs two of them to get guaranteed crits.

If he's not intended to ult backline champions why does his ult have extreme range?

He's intended to ult anyone and everyone. Target agnostic, as I said.

If he's meant to be a person fighting low burst high tankiness enemies why give him an anti-burst defense rather than inbuilt sustain?

Because he needs to be able to survive mid lane, which is full of high burst low sustained damage mages and assassins.

Regarding his lack of sustain, I'll defer to CertainlyT -

"I see this posted a lot. Mana is only one way to gate a champion.

In the case of Yasuo, the resource gate on spells is actually inverted. Yasuo is gated by the NEED to act. If the Yasuo player is not successfully casting Q and E, he's falling behind -- Q builds stacks toward his knockup. E builds his passive. Each of them also leaves Yasuo vulnerable. In lane, Q starts at a 0.42 second cast time and E alerts the enemy to his exact position in 0.6 seconds (the time of the dash). Using those momentary losses of control to your advantage as the opponent can help you land skillshots or reposition against him. In team fights, the need to build Q stacks requires Yasuo to find targets (like the Wraiths, minions, or enemy champions that move into his team's lines) before he can cast his more powerful Q3. The E requires him to move around in a fight to keep his passive working, making him less of a target chooser and more of a target taker.

He also has no inherent sustain, rare for a melee, and most of the time is short range, allowing him to be harassed. We could have given Yasuo mana, bumped his durability/regen up a ton, and given him long range waveclear tools, but instead we made him manaless, fragile, and short ranged. Personally, I think this was the right choice as health as a resource is something that the enemy actually has control over. Mana regen is mostly a function of itemization. It should be more satisfying to maintain proper range while harassing Yasuo out of lane than to build enough armor that Pantheon cannot kill you with spears before OOMing.

(http://www.surrenderat20.net/2014/01/red-post-collection-certainlyt-on-yasuo.html)

Cloud Potato1 votes

I feel like Yasuo does too much. I'm not saying that to mean that he's unbalancable, but it's going to be hard to make another 'Light Fighter' that he's not going to outclass. He has too many things in his kit and it's going to hurt diversity in the long run, unless Riot gets really creative with new mechanics. I also hate how well Shiv synergises with him.

Aatrox is the epitome of what's wrong with drain tanks. Unkillable until he gets CC'd, in which case he dies. Despite all of the things in place to make melee basic attackers the bottom rung of society there is not enough gameplay involved with melee basic attacks. Making him live or die depending on whether he can attack or not just makes immobile and/or melee champions his bitch while ranged champions destroy him. I know this word gets thrown around or lot but he needs counterplay.

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