How to give Mordekaiser windows of power and thus make him a healthier addition to the game

Malicious Metal··84 votes·5,725 views

Mordekaiser lacks meaningful interaction in a solo lane and even his duo lane isn't much better at giving his opponents much counterplay without making Mordekaiser underpowered. This was the core reasoning behind putting Morde bot with the Juggernaut update since he was condemned to mediocrity due to his bully nature and unhealthy patter.

Him spamming E and gaining massive shield was problematic. It was unavoidable poke with 250 base damage on a low cool down and with almost no cost attached to it. It made him almost unbearable in certain matchups and made laning against him a chore.

But this was remedied in his rework His E retained its rather high health cost as well as having had its damage reduced. It was a step in the right direction and with Mordekaisers core problem in mind one could have tried harder to give him windows of power to truly make him healthy in both solo and duo.

So what remains? Mordekaiser's shield gain was nerfed but it's still kinda oppressive. It also lacks downtime. But if you nerf it further Mordekaiser would lose his core identity and become much worse due to him relying on it as a CC/mobility less melee bruiser.

>Mordekaiser needs windows of power regarding his passive Iron man to truly make him interactive in lane and give enemies windows in which they can punish him.

Suggestion:

New: Harvester of Sorrow/Powerslave/etc.(Placeholder name)

Mordekaiser DOUBLES his shield gain for 8 seconds while surrounding himself with metal shrapnel. For the duration he deals AoE damage in a circle around him and increases his resistances by 10%

Iron man: Shield gain lowered from 25%->15% Shield gain against minions only one THIRD effectiveness, down from half

-->This would finally get rid of Mordekaiser's issue of practically being untouchable due to his constant shield gain when around minions but allow him to truly become this nightmarish entity on the battlefield when being under the effect of his W.

It's also harbors some resemblance to his old Creeping death with his resistance buff but by making it a % instead of a flat amount he'll scale harder into late game, something riot wants him to be; A late game champion

It would finally give him windows in which his lane opponent can abuse reckless usage of his W. They can poke him, all in him, hurt him enough to back. Him having piss poor hp/5 makes it all the more rewarding and more devastating for Morde who needs to be healthy in order to use his spells.

He can use it to beef himself up in a gank or all in, he can use it to commit to extended trades as well as just use it for wave clear. This would also allow Riot to tweak his stats more to make him hold his ground but still have his power tied to these valuable 8 seconds.

The cool down would probably have to start high but get lowered drastically either by ability rank or Morde's level to allow him to max out his E/Q for the early game.

With the addition of a downtime to Mordekaiser's powerful Iron Man his laning phase would be much more interactive and reward perfect usage of his W as well as abusing its downtime for the enemy. It would give enemies windows in which they can punish Mordekaiser for simply using his W whenever it's up or simply push the wave but also give Mordekaiser this "Come at ME" feel whenever he uses it to become almost impossible to kill. By removing him almost always being at full shield when around minions he may even be able to have a tad better base stats so that he relies less on the feast/famine play pattern his Iron Man provides.

Stil, there are a lot more elegant solutions to make Mordekaiser more healthy and involve a lot more strategy and give RIOT more avenues in which they can balance Mordekaiser without making him either overbearing or underwhelming.

http://img10.deviantart.net/81c5/i/2012/111/a/9/mordekaiser_by_skullsinacab-d4x3moj.png

TL;DR Mordekaiser lacks windows of power necessary for a healthy laner. Lowering his shield gain and making his W increase it would fix some of these issues without changing what makes Mordekaiser who he is.

50 Comments

Goodnight Nunu9 votes

Wait...

A main actually admitting his champ lacks meaningful counterplay and has unhealthy aspects and even suggesting changes to address those issues?

Is this league?

Tails Doll19 votes

It's Malicious Metal, he knows what's up.

TotalJerk2 votes

Lots of old champions were like that. Gangplank was "overloaded" to hell and had no counterplay, but this didn't matter because all of his numbers were so terrible.

UB3R 1337 H4X1 votes

I mained old GP, it is kinda sad that in the end of his life he was reduced to a crit machine, especially for how much of a "Build whatever, win whenever" champion that he was, though it was a shame to see him go and I spent sometime without a real main because I suck with he new barrel mechanics but hey, at least I have it better than the Cass players, I just suck, their champ is dead.

Ahristocats8 votes

just revert the fucking rework and rescale the range of his E from 700 to 300/400/500/600/700 to make him healthier.

Then buff him

KONO RUBICK DA2 votes

[{quoted}](name=playfive Koopska,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T1M4ftEo,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2016-01-06T22:53:07.777+0000)

just revert the fucking rework and rescale the range of his E from 700 to 300/400/500/600/700 to make him healthier.

Then buff him

Can be done, but i don't understand why they called it unhealthy, it cost health it wasn't free.

Ahristocats1 votes

{quoted}

Can be done, but i don't understand why they called it unhealthy, it cost health it wasn't free.

because when mordekaiser was viable in s1, he was hell to lane against, even if it costs hp, he pokes, counters your poke, and eventually when he spammed E like 15 times he ultied you.

Chespin20134 votes

Where do you keep finding all these Morde pics dude

Malicious Metal8 votes

Usually DeviantArt or simply those I've got in one of my Mordekaiser folder.

DrProfVibeCheck1 votes

I wish I had a "Mordekaiser" folder :(

Starfish H5 votes

I have a league hentai folder professional, artistic, educational, completely safe for work league folder

Hello I am Bird1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Starfish H,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T1M4ftEo,comment-id=0006000000000000,timestamp=2016-01-07T05:47:25.753+0000)

artistic

Well... I mean you aren't wrong ;)

Decrit3 votes

Dropping in with a thought: one of the main problems about interaction with morde is that he is immediately capable of generating a shield, resulting in a mechanic very similar to lifesteal which is feast and famine of its nature. Disclaimer: this is not a change proposal, is just a concept, an idea that came into my mind that needs further work balance wise in order to be effective, so don' t take it as cut, dry and ready to be served.

I ask: how would it be if Morde could not generate shield instantly, but could only accumulate it like Yasuo flow? I mean, Morde generates the shield in the bar but is not active yet - when the shield reaches the maximum it activates. The nuances of this system might be discussed further: does it decay, does it not, it is able then to regenerate on the fly the shield or does he need it to be completely empty in order to fill it again and on and on. The main idea here is to have this shield pop up, not decay for a long while but at the same time not being able to be regenerated until broken, this way the passive feels a lot less like lifesteal.

It gives clear up and downtime moments, being both useful for botlane ( since it indicates a moment where morde can safely reach for dangerous cs or for the enemy team, and the enemy can see that), for midlane ( since it can be timed for resisting burst damage ) and of course top lane ( duel time bitches!) and has a very deep interaction with the items that Morde builds: if you buy damage you fill it faster with shorter bursts, but if you build tanky you build it slower, but with the advantage of E that makes it still fast enough to fill making it optimal for long sustained fights or positions where you can put yourself in danger and get a lot of damage done in order to accumulate shield.

But then a problem rises: how would a player feel with that, apart from balance? One of the core aspects of Morde for many players is the always shield generating juggernaut ( even before the juggernaut update )... and honestly having a champion always able to generate a shield constantly and able to keep it up is kinda problematic.

I am an old Morde player, i recognize that i would feel this change as less "snappy", making it more clunky to play, but at the same time seems pretty much reasonable. Thoughts?

DeathBurst2 votes

I'm surprised you didn't get any response.

This is an interesting concept, with a lot of balance lever. Not sure it's better than MM's idea about tying shield efficiency to a spell's CD, but it's at least worth a try, imho.

Decrit1 votes

Meh, i am not that surprised. That' s what happens when i pull down long ass posts. Meanwhile i do a few-line post about Veigar plushies and i am at the center of the boards.

Don' t get me wrong. We need those plushies.

Anyway, thanks for the thought. These kind of things are better tested with a back and forth from the players, hopefully one day some will happen. I do not consider Riot intervent here because i know they already thought that, after all CT designed both Yasuo and the Morde rework, but now that i think about it i would like to pick his brain about this too, even if he can't do anymore changes.

CoTheSlow2 votes

I don't have much to say regarding the post itself (I don't and have never played morde) but your unwavering dedication and willingness to always present new ideas is great. I have read a lot of your posts and you are never angry with riot and always try top calmly suggest new ideas even if they aren't what you originally want but you try to work with riot and not against them which I think is really cool and more people need to do.

You go bro! [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

GhastlyGhoulMan2 votes

I agree with this idea, they need to start supporting a long term healthy kit for him, and this would actually allow them to focus on him in solo lane while keeping him from being as oppressive as he was before.

ZzEslIolZQ2 votes

Weren't you invited to their mission accomplished party? Cause they threw one for Morde and MF already. Now they're moving on to immobile mages cause the guy who spams Janna in silver doesn't think the mages are unique enough.

Stars Shaper1 votes

Glad to see that you're back on duty^^

And I find myself to agree with that. It leaves a lot of space to give him a solid offensive window too with the remaning skills. I don't know if this would bind too much damage to his kit but wouldn't be fitting if his Q would deal increased damage based on enemies' missing health or add a %missing health bonus magic damage from Morde skills when the enemy is affected by his R?

Malicious Metal3 votes

Some kind of MR shred would be a cool feature to his ultimate seeing that Riot tries to shift it from burst to more of a DoT. If they want him to be more of a DPS fighter his ultimate could be used as a way to increase said DPS a bit while marked with it.

But alas, I think he has enough damage but lacks a bit in other areas.

Stars Shaper1 votes

Yes but the damage is always there if you land all the Qs and that's it. I think it would be more fun to have also windows where the damage dealt could be higher at the cost of having it lower if you are just going to mash bottons.

LatetotheRace1 votes

I mean, I just play him top and stomp just about everyone I go up against. The only reason I die is if I'm over pushed and I get ganked, provided I can't 1v2 which does happen semi often.

Malicious Metal20 votes

It's less a matter of Morde's prowess but more of him having gameplay pattern that can't be supported long term due to them lacking counterplay or being too unhealthy.

Penta Penguin1 votes

He's been supported for 5 years

Ferus and Ferrum3 votes

And it's always been unhealthy...

Penta Penguin3 votes

I've never seen Morde complaint threads until his rework

The last I heard was when he could buy 25 potions at level 1, 5 years ago

Malicious Metal6 votes

To be fair, Morde was so rare that people didn't even care if they got beaten by one.

He was like a rare pokemon, you saw one every blue moon

Blitzidious3 votes

And they always FUCKING RUN AWAY AND YOU CAN'T FIND THEM AGAIN.

GODDAMNIT.

Rendarkan1 votes

I remember the first time i played Morde... I was a mere low level...

The only thing I hope they keep is the dragon concept. That's about the only thing I like about new Morde but make it so he had to choose rather than the Dragonforce passive. Gives it a more risk/reward feel.

Serika Zero1 votes

EVERYTIME I tried to play Diana or Ahri in ranked in season 3, the enemy team had a Mordekaiser main >.>

kaltenashes1 votes

i once played a top lane as Quinn vs Mordekaiser

tldr i beat his ass so hard that i got lvl 7 while he was still lvl 4 with 40 cs

i said sorry after the game ended, he replied STFU =/

Count Zubat1 votes

That guy probably didn't know what he was doing. When in unfavorable match up, Morde can easily just farm and sustain himself. He can easily ignore poke. In my experience, the only champion that could beat me on top lane was Jax, because of how easily he could stun lock me and make my Q completely useless in trades with him. Other match ups, I either crush them or just farm and sustain myself.

Hello I am Bird1 votes

He can't beat a good Quinn's poke, please trust me.

Count Zubat1 votes

I hope I'll have opportunity to face one. Then I'll see :)

i am spartta1 votes

soooooooooooooooooooooooo longitem 3070

Malicious Metal1 votes

Added a Tl;DR

Count Zubat1 votes

Besides not having access to W when soloing, I would say Mordekaiser's playstyle didn't change a bit. I've been playing him top lane lately, going for Rylai, Abyssal, Zhonya, Tabi, and then, depending on game, I pick 2 items from the list of Deadman, Spirit Visage and Rabadon. I take 3 ranks into my W for strong sustain in trades, and then decide if either I want to max W for OP heal or just max E to poke down my enemies, I max Q last, just taking one rank at level 1, because it still has huge damage from scalings alone. Btw, his E damage is only slightly weaker than pre-rework, it's still oppressive as fck, kinda good Riot reverted that E buff on PBE. Most of my enemies are afraid to come near me after 1 or 2 trades, when they see that I completely outtrade their asses. Mordekaiser still pushes like a beast. W + E is enought to take away casters, and then you just finish off melee minions with Q. Wave cleared. Tbh, I'm not surprised that Riot is so afraid of giving Morde fully accessible W, with Rylai, he is already sticky as fck and with the build I'm doing, I'm dishing horrendous amounts of damage while my heals give me about 700 health if I hit 2 champions/jungle monsters + the reactivation still generates shield, so practically it gives even more sustain. Imo, if Riot gave Morde fully functional W, he would become even more oppressive than pre-rework Morde (in right hands, of course). You can check out my matches at OP.gg, and you will see that I hardly ever do badly with Morde. My worst matches are when I have number of deaths equal with number of kills. I know, I am only silver elo, but still, a lot of times, I quite stomp my enemies with Morde. That's my experience with this guy, he is really strong, the rework made him more oppressive. The heal is just OP as fck. The new Q is like having your next 3 autos become old Mord's Q, but single target. In duels, it's really strong.

The suggestion you give is quite good imo. This would give a chance to Mord's enemies to outtrade him. Right now, he is untouchable, just like old Morde. After all those tweaks Morde got through last half year, we nearly returned to pre-rework state, with the exception that we can't use W while solo (it's gonna change soon with patch 6.1), but Morde has very strong heal and that stupid dragon ghost.

Jaghatai1 votes

MM You do good work ... however, I don't agree with all your points here. Mord's new E is ridiculously worthless as is right now.

We shouldn't work from the current state in my opinion. We should look at what Mord was and try to work with that. Current Mord isn't Mord.

Count Zubat1 votes

You are wrong when it comes to E. It's weaker, yes, but worthless? Let's do some maths. In rework, Mordekaiser's E base damage was lowered from 250 to 155, but an additional 60% total AD scaling was added. Let's say we don't build any AD. That means that, at level 18, the E deals 242 damage, with only base AD counted. That's the lose of 8 damage. And still, 240 damage is quite good for base. But, let's say, you want to max your E first, so at level 9, after counting in bonus from base AD, it deals 212 damage. A significant nerf in comparison to his old E, but is it that shitty? It is still a very solid base damage, and don't forget that it fills 25% of your shield for every champion you hit with it. With a Rylai, Zhonya, Abyssal and Rabadom, you deal about 700 damage with your E. This is a lot.

Jaghatai1 votes

Or with the old E - I could max out my shield AND do significant damage to the enemy.

New E is worthless.

bahamutkaiser1 votes

Mordekaiser has ample counters in bottom lane vs marksman who can poke him outside of his reach.

The only problem is how easy Mordekaiser is to operate vs how hard he is to usurp, the methods to defeat him have always existed.

CC him, burst him, out range him, or mix it up and bring a fighter against him and build some MR. Mordekaisers primary strength has always be his opponents unwillingness to adapt. The counters are available despite players stubbornness.

With openings in top, jungle, mid and duo with Morde for marksman to occupy, it's not necessary for players to adhere to the Meta, deal with it.

WookieJesuz1 votes

While you certainly have heart about this champion and frequently make suggestions, rito wont ever change anything. I saw a big post called "warning monster post" and its beautifully written, and just outlines why, no matter how good this idea might or might not be, there is almost no point to making it due to the fact that it will be ignored.

Photos of Ghosts1 votes

I had this idea a while back and wanted you AWZUM PURSON, to r8 it. Shield tending to 50% instead of always decaying. Poke constantly or he has a shield. However, the shield generation on spell becomes flat (per level) plus percentage of damage dealt, for a total nerfed value of "active" generation compared to live. r8?

Ultraboomer1 votes

so, I am CLEARLY doing something wrong, because I'm never at 100% shield. especially not from my w. and I easily get lane bullied. do you have a youtube or a twitch where I can watch you play mordekaiser so I can learn?

Vlasimuthe1 votes

I made a similar suggestion a few weeks ago but yours is much better. Glad to see I think the same as the master of metal himself :). I would also like to see his third Q apply some sort of cc like a fear. It's not so much juggernaut-ish but then again Morde's base stats aren't that reflective of juggernaut status anyway...

Annoxis1 votes

I actually thought of that idea once, but here comes the problem : that spell doesn't support Morde bot, and Riot stated that they will balance him principally around the bot. If your idea isn't viable/useful for bot lane, it won't do much. So allow to correct something by adding this :

  • Mordekaiser can cast this spell on an ally champ. During this time, the allt champ gains the AoE and Mordekaiser share his shield with his ally, whose attacks will generate shield for both of the champ.

Also, I don't think Mordekaiser should have these buffs in resistance. Despite seemingly being now the most squishy of the juggernaut, I thik that, in terms of effective health, he can actually be quite resistant.

And, one last thing : 15 % is fine early, but couldn't he have scaling shield generation ?

aítch1 votes

I guess your face got too red and the H on your forehead became and actual HUE didn't it? That fucking memes post was hilarious still though c:

Koechophe1 votes

I'd almost take it a step further. Put his passive as a passive onto his W (like MF's strut) so that he doesn't have level 1 access to it, and make the power scale up with levels in his W. Then make it still double while W is active. That would do a lot of things: That would not only support a better late-game play, but it would also give mord the option of leveling his W for defense in lane so he can turtle better, or if he levels his Q first, require him to be more agressive because his shield isn't as effective.

Kaeblen1 votes

Just a thought:

Isn't his current E more toxic than his previous one? It generates 15-25% of Morde's maximum shield per champion hit, but feels like it does next to nothing outside of that. That means that every time he engages an enemy he gets the maximum benefit from his shield generation. With his old E, he got some shield by hitting enemy champions, but only enough to matter when he used it on an entire wave of minions. because of that, he was more or less immune to pokes while farming, but could be severely punished if his enemies attacked him between minion waves. (just let him clear wave first, then engage once his shield has decayed)

I always thought that was a well defined "window" where Mordekaiser 's power was reduced. Jax has the same window, since his passive builds by repeatedly pounding minions before switching to a more meaningful target. Was this taken away because it made him immune to poke? (If that's a problem, why not change the shield so that it only intercepts 40-80% of incoming damage, rather than all of it?)

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