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Must rage about upcoming vision nerfs

Dehitay··3 votes·806 views

For those that haven't read the 2017 season preview yet, there's 2 hard nerfs to vision coming in. First, assassins are getting an item with a passive that lets them see and destroy wards. Second, pink wards can no longer reveal invisible champions.

With the removal of green wards from the shop and yellow trinkets having slow access to wards with short placement times and warding items getting hit with wards 30 seconds shorter than the old green wards, establishing vision was already made significantly more difficult. But now throw in an assassin item that allows champions to go around clearing wards as a passive and plants that allow vision of wards in an area, and you get far more vision denial. At this rate, we're eventually going to move to a point where clarivoyance is more powerful than warding.

But the more annoying thing is the hard pink ward nerf. The removal of true sight means there is now no strong counter to invisible champions. Oracle's Elixer has long since been removed from the game even though it definitely should have been brought back when they limited pink wards to one per player and made them visible. Oracle trinkets give you a delayed after image of where the champion was so they can dodge skill shots easier, and without true sight, you can't even autoattack or use targeted abilities on them. And now pink wards aren't going to do jack shit to help.

Riot's theme for 2017 is apparently "screw vision"

10 Comments

Eedat2 votes

Oracle's Elixer has long since been removed from the game even though it definitely should have been brought back when they limited pink wards to one per player and made them visible.

Hell no. I don't understand why people complain about this season being snowbally, but then want things like this back. Here is a summary of how Oracle's worked for those who don't know. The team that is ahead pushes into your side of the map. The team that is behind has to be more careful and stick closer to the towers. The support on the team that is ahead grabs an Oracle, buys a ton of wards, and has more or less free reign in the jungle and river areas. The team that is ahead removes ALL of your vision while establishing total vision control for themselves. The support on the team that is behind can't safely remove an vision with risk of getting caught out and dying

It blows my mind that people still don't get that the vision changes were a huge anti-snowball feature. Vision in the past consisted of the team that is ahead being able to afford more wards while simultaneously removing ALL of the other team's.

RageQ21 votes

{quoted}

Hell no. I don't understand why people complain about this season being snowbally, but then want things like this back. Here is a summary of how Oracle's worked for those who don't know. The team that is ahead pushes into your side of the map. The team that is behind has to be more careful and stick closer to the towers. The support on the team that is ahead grabs an Oracle, buys a ton of wards, and has more or less free reign in the jungle and river areas. The team that is ahead removes ALL of your vision while establishing total vision control for themselves. The support on the team that is behind can't safely remove an vision with risk of getting caught out and dying

It blows my mind that people still don't get that the vision changes were a huge anti-snowball feature. Vision in the past consisted of the team that is ahead being able to afford more wards while simultaneously removing ALL of the other team's.

This also kind of counteracts you with pink wards, pink wards are a big part of league in fact it's on of the only was to counter an invisible champion, now that they're removed invisible champions are free to do whatever without any counter play. I.e. A good shaco can one shot everyone with ease because you can't counter play his use of invisibility. You can't even use raptors to stop him anymore because of smite buffs being removed.

Kaioko2 votes

There's a difference between countering someone whose whole kit revolves around invisibility like rengar, eve or twitch versus just using it to counter someone in fight like Akali and Vayne. I don't find it a huge issue that you can no longer simply counter their in battle skill with one item. It's the same thing they did with Fiora and Zed with the QSS change. If those champions get too far out of line they'll be nerfed like Zed was.

Also Oracle elixir was one of the most unhealthy things in the game.

Edit: And to add more yes those plants will give you a ward clearing ability but so did smiting raptors and that's being removed.

EddyParera1 votes

1st, about plants? Isn't that already with the raptor's smite buff?

Also, do you think it's fair to counterplay an ulti (it means, long cooldown) with 75g? Now, it will need real skills to counterplay those abilities.

My advice to you is that, it's preseason... Changes will be made to balance these new changes for sure. Just stay chill and games will give Riot feedback enough for any changes needed to balance this part of the game.

RageQ22 votes

{quoted}

Also, do you think it's fair to counterplay an ulti (it means, long cooldown) with 75g? Now, it will need real skills to counterplay those abilities.

The thing is, any good player with stealth will be able to roam free without any worries of being spotted (other than Eve, Obv) Pink wards and smite buffs where the only way to counter this and now you're just gonna let em' take the advantage. Stealth champs are gonna be the meta if it stays the way it is right now.

EddyParera1 votes

Invisible champ abilities aren't supposed to be used as roam abilities. Vayne R+Q invisibility has 1sec cooldown, Wukong's w and Shaco's Q have considerable long cooldown (18 and 14seconds), Akali W is a pure fight ability and not roam...

I think people are complaining about it too much just because they don't know how to counter stealth champs. They still won't stand a chance against hard cc, and that's what is supposed to counter stealth. Let the pre-season tell Riot what to do to balance these changes.

Dehitay1 votes

{quoted}

1st, about plants? Isn't that already with the raptor's smite buff?

Also, do you think it's fair to counterplay an ulti (it means, long cooldown) with 75g? Now, it will need real skills to counterplay those abilities.

My advice to you is that, it's preseason... Changes will be made to balance these new changes for sure. Just stay chill and games will give Riot feedback enough for any changes needed to balance this part of the game.

Raptor's smite buff is being removed for the upcoming season. However, the passive on the assassin item Dueskblade of Draktharr does seem to have something similar to the buff as a passive. The vision plant essentially replaces the raptor's smite buff, but is significantly easier to use since any player can use it instead of requiring smite.

I'm not sure which ult you're talking about since the only invisible ult that comes to mind right away is Talon and not many really tried to use pink wards to counter that, or Rengar's camoflauge ult which didn't really give you much time to do anything even if you do see him coming. My largest concern is Akali who will now become utterly ungankable unless you have a TF or something.

{quoted}

Hell no. I don't understand why people complain about this season being snowbally, but then want things like this back. Here is a summary of how Oracle's worked for those who don't know. The team that is ahead pushes into your side of the map. The team that is behind has to be more careful and stick closer to the towers. The support on the team that is ahead grabs an Oracle, buys a ton of wards, and has more or less free reign in the jungle and river areas. The team that is ahead removes ALL of your vision while establishing total vision control for themselves. The support on the team that is behind can't safely remove an vision with risk of getting caught out and dying

It blows my mind that people still don't get that the vision changes were a huge anti-snowball feature. Vision in the past consisted of the team that is ahead being able to afford more wards while simultaneously removing ALL of the other team's.

Congrats, you just described how vision currently works as well. Any intelligent team that is ahead is going to ward deep and clear out your wards. The absence of Oracle's Elixer has done jack shit to stop that. What it has done is make stealth champs and stealth traps more powerful. To be honest though, as long as the Oracle trinkets stay, I wouldn't mind Oracle's Elixer no longer revealing stealth wards as long as there is a way to reveal stealth champs and traps.

EddyParera1 votes

Vayne's ult for example.

Also, why would Riot create stealth abilities if they can counter it with pink wards and could counter with Oracle's elixir. Would you step in Jhin's trap if you see them? Of course not, would you step in a mushroom? Of course not... So that would take away its purpose. With just 75g or after preseason patch, 50g...

By the way, Akali is still easy counterable with the new W... because it's basically the same, just won't be counterplayed with a pink ward. If she's forced to leave the Shroud, she won't be stealthed anymore, if she stays... after 4 seconds she will be probably dead. Akali invisibility rework is the one I agree the most. She's an all in champ, if she messes up, she's dead for sure without that ability to save her.

And again, about plants, anyone can take it, but just one player... And mostly, it will be the jungler so it's almost the same than before.

Dehitay1 votes

{quoted}

Vayne's ult for example.

Also, why would Riot create stealth abilities if they can counter it with pink wards and could counter with Oracle's elixir. Would you step in Jhin's trap if you see them? Of course not, would you step in a mushroom? Of course not... So that would take away its purpose. With just 75g or after preseason patch, 50g...

By the way, Akali is still easy counterable with the new W... because it's basically the same, just won't be counterplayed with a pink ward. If she's forced to leave the Shroud, she won't be stealthed anymore, if she stays... after 4 seconds she will be probably dead. Akali invisibility rework is the one I agree the most. She's an all in champ, if she messes up, she's dead for sure without that ability to save her.

And again, about plants, anyone can take it, but just one player... And mostly, it will be the jungler so it's almost the same than before.

Riot has claimed that they want everything to have counterplay. That's why they would create stealth abilities that could be countered. And I purposely step into Jhin traps and Teemo shrooms all the time if I'm a tank with enough defenses cause without a decent clear system anymore, that's now the best way to do it. I'd love to just clear them normally because I knew where they were and I had an item that could clear them all before some time limit says "fuck you".

Akali's W was never easily counterable. I'm not sure if you've ever tried to gank a decent mid lane Akali, but it's pretty much impossible without certain stealth revealing skills or a pink ward. And soon, the pink ward won't do it. Once preseason hits, she's going to be ridiculously safe to play with no gankability and her massive healing. And you just said "if she messes up, she's dead for sure without that ability to save her". If she makes a mistake, she SHOULD be dead for sure. Assassins should be all about technique and get punished hard when their technique isn't superior.

{quoted}

I think people are complaining about it too much just because they don't know how to counter stealth champs. They still won't stand a chance against hard cc, and that's what is supposed to counter stealth. Let the pre-season tell Riot what to do to balance these changes.

Hard CC is pointless if you can't land it.

Siyther1 votes

i think it's a bad idea. Sure pink wards counter stealth. Thats their job. The only issue i see with this, team comps, if your team doesnt have at least 3 members with hard cc you will be destroyed by stealth.Let me ask u this is anything in the world worse than being an adc and being repeatedly dove by rengar eve shaco with literally nothing u can do about it? With these changes adc may as well be deleted because all u will do is get camped, get dove and be useless as fuck no matter what u do. AFter this update we will be waiting in que's for over an hour cause ppl will rather play support than get rekted every 30 seconds(as adc) from an invisable assassin.

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