Riot is punishing solo players with heavier LP losses in…

Dehitay · 2016-06-03T14:42:30.306Z

If you've been keeping up with how Riot does things in dynamic queue, then you know that premades are pushed into games with solos that are a higher MMR than they are in order to "balance things out". Which means as a solo player, every time you're in a game with premades (the vast majority of your games), then the average MMR of the match is actually going to be lower than what it should be for you cause of the premades (probly one on each team) being from lower MMR. Now if you know how LP losses and gains work, you realize the incoming problem with this. You lose more LP per loss and gain less per win when the match's average MMR is below your rank. And you gain more LP per win and lose less per loss when it's above your rank. Well, since the MMR of the match is going to be less than what it should be for solo players, we're naturally going to lose more LP per loss and gain less per win. At first I didn't understand why I was struggling so much. Then I started looking at lolnexus and remembered the premade thing. I know Riot has been rewarding people left and right for playing as premades, but to go as far as to actually punish solo players? This is just a giant kick in the balls.

LycanoonJun 4, 20168 votes

Can you just share the MMR table with us instead and how it's calculated? That would shut everyone up, and quick.

Baek Ma RiJun 4, 20163 votes

His point is that, since his mmr as a solo player will be higher than the enemy team's his mmr increase will not be as strong.

LostFr0stJun 4, 201623 votes

Gypsylord is saying that the mmr of the premade is not their mmrs separately, but the adjusted one it gives them for the match that is used. If their individual mmrs are 1500, and they are premade then their mmr is adjusted to lets say 1700 and matched vs the appropriate players (1700). When it gives out the LP it will give it based on the adjusted 1700 not the 1500s, thus not a punishment for solos.

RiotAD YuumiJun 4, 201636 votes

^this

2ManyJonsJun 4, 20167 votes

But how is that fair? Why do you get lp gains adjusted to 1700 mmr when you only have 1500 individually?

If 4 players que up together with 1200-1300-1400-1500 mmr and are all adjusted to a 1600 (average plus 200) then they get to play against other 1600's and get the same gains for abusing the ability to communicate and employ better teamwork than the 1600's, how is they fair for the real 1600 who had to do the work to get those gains instead of just ganging up and getting the "Friendship is magic" bonus?

Dynamic que is NOT FAIR for solo players who don't have on-call friends to play with.

DraqoneJun 4, 201616 votes

{quoted}

But how is that fair? Why do you get lp gains adjusted to 1700 mmr when you only have 1500 individually?

If 4 players que up together with 1200-1300-1400-1500 mmr and are all adjusted to a 1600 (average plus 200) then they get to play against other 1600's and get the same gains for abusing the ability to communicate and employ better teamwork than the 1600's, how is they fair for the real 1600 who had to do the work to get those gains instead of just ganging up and getting the "Friendship is magic" bonus?

Dynamic que is NOT FAIR for solo players who don't have on-call friends to play with.

Adjusting your MMR upwards is actually not a bonus but a handicap.

2ManyJonsJun 5, 20161 votes

For a solo person I agree.

But for a 4 man premade, it probably doesn't even matter. The bonus teamwork that comes from being a premade vs four solo players makes a huge difference.

Remlap1223Jun 5, 20164 votes

Ok. Let me explain this to you. Unless someone leveled up a smurf account and tailored their MMR to the level of the boostee, you are seriously gimping yourself. If a premade for some reason loses the match, and they have a significantly higher MMR than you, you gain a huge LP boost, and they lose a huge chunk of theirs. If they win, you lose very little, and their gains slow to a crawl. That's quite literally how ranked is balanced.

2ManyJonsJun 5, 20161 votes

And if for some reason the premade wins the match (as statistics says they will) and they're playing against people with higher mmr, then THEY will gain a huge Lp boost, and the solo players will lose a huge chunk of theirs because they lost to a 12-13-1400 as a 1600 player.

You are treating it as though a solo player is getting the boost with nothing to comp his ability for it. The 4 man is getting the boost but their getting the major bonus of being a 4 man, always in communication, knows eachothers play abilities...ect. That stuff means a lot in a TEAMWORK BASED GAME.

Icestar1186Jun 5, 20164 votes

That's not how it works. If you're at around 1600, the premade's ADJUSTED MMR, which controls LP gain/loss, will be around 1600, because you get matched with people of your MMR. The solo player gets the LP they would have gotten from playing against a non-premade made of other 1600s, even if the premade players were only 1400ish (example) before adjustment.

PÿröJun 4, 20162 votes

Is there a way I can talk to a Riot employee and discuss how I've felt about the game the past couple years? (NOT a rant, just a way to discuss with someone that actually is having to try to balance/run things) Over Skype/Teamspeak? (I prefer using my voice, so much can be lost/misunderstood in text)

Edit: I'm not a youtuber or anything of that sort, I'm not trying to do anything but simply talk lol. IF there is a way, get whomever that wants to talk to add me on League and I'll give my skype/TS info there. And if you respond, thanks for listening!

ntbcoolJun 5, 20161 votes

very unlikely to get in a voice chat with them, they are just to big and wasting 30 minutes is not possible especially if it's only for one player. At least in board posts everyone can see it so it's not just for the sack of a single person. best chance of something like this would be an interview by a youtuber, which u are not...

PÿröJun 5, 20162 votes

I'm aware how unlikely it is. But I was going to ask regardless.

Monkey D LuffyJun 5, 20161 votes

Then how would this work with 4 mans? Would that one solo player be forced into a harder match up? Or would the solo player be around the enemy teams mmr?

JambajewzJun 6, 20161 votes

The solo player would be placed in the game based on solo MMR, their 4 man premade teammates would have their MMR adjusted, then it depends entirely on whether the enemy team also has a premade. If they do, then there's a decent chance the solo player will be matched against one of the enemy team's premade players, who would also have their MMR adjusted, and the solo player should have a skill advantage in their lane matchup.

iTaLenTZJun 4, 20169 votes

"Strangely enough, historically it has often been a bad idea to queue as a premade when you're looking to climb (assuming no smurfs). Your ability to communicate and work together has to be really strong to outweigh the fact that you're being matched against lane opponents who are likely to be straight up better than you."

And that is exactly the problem of DQ. The better, or lets say the least worse, premades win the game because the premades on the other team are useless. During my 3 years of ranked experience, and I am talking about 4k+ games, I can say this has always been the issue. But DQ made it worse because you now also have 3/4/5s. They are either smurfing or are significantly worse than their opponents. It is like throwing a coin and saying because the outcome is 50/50 it is balanced.

TractJun 4, 20168 votes

I am clearly in the minority, but I feel the need to defend this. I AM A ALMOST ENTIRELY SOLO RANKED PLAYER. I play normals with friends RANKED SOLO. I have hundreds of games this season. Never ONCE have I been put in a situation when a premade on MY TEAM OR THE OTHER TEAM has damaged the quality of the game due to them being a premade. I have yet to find one situation when it was unjust or unfair to me, as a solo player. And even with or against premades I win/lose normal ammounts of LP(usually like 17/18/19/20 both ways)

TazimussJun 5, 20164 votes

I, too, am a solo player most of the time and love it. All of this hate on DQ is a giant misunderstanding by the 'majority' of board posters that THINK they're high diamond, but totally aren't.

TractJun 5, 20162 votes

Most of the complaints are about problems that almost always only happen at high elo's, such as the wait times and now the auto fill thingy. Most of the people complaining are realistically NEVER going to experience that. I was gold last season, currently silver but will likely end up mid gold by the end of this season as well, im realistic. Those problems will, like most of the people, never effect me, and if by some miracle I end up reaching dimond multiple seasons in the future, Rito will have probably fixed them anyway. Dynamic queue gets WAY more trashing than it deserves. It seems like most people wanted youtube videos of angry high elo players and just spit out exactly what they said. Seriously annoying, DQ really just isnt anywere near as bad as people make it out to be.

TazimussJun 5, 20162 votes

This is so true. The top 2% are the ones with the problem, and they are a mere 30k people out of 1.5 MILLION. Yes, those people are indeed experiencing the problems that brought out this backlash, but Riot is actively trying to fix it and make that small percentage happy.

ThumpinJun 4, 20163 votes

Historically? This new queue system has been around for 6 months, with constant changes being done to it.

LostFr0stJun 4, 20164 votes

The new queue mmr adjustment calculation for premades has its roots in the old adjustment for duos. That's why historically was used.
In the video they said they under-adjusted for premades, so we got those super wonky winrate differences.

AnagsJun 5, 20161 votes

Duo q in ranked has been around forever. In the past when you duo queued with someone it put you against better opponents if they were all solo. It does a similar thing currently.

People need to stop crying about this. It is pointless. And a lot of people don't even understand how the system works anyway.

PhDs NutsJun 5, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Duo q in ranked has been around forever. In the past when you duo queued with someone it put you against better opponents if they were all solo. It does a similar thing currently.

People need to stop crying about this. It is pointless. And a lot of people don't even understand how the system works anyway.

And people hated duos, too. I'm sure most people here that were around for it remember having to deal with "duo bot" when entering a lobby, regardless of where those two actually fell in the pick order.

People just want a solo queue.

Mister SupportJun 4, 20162 votes

One thing the OP stated was that he/she perceives that a solo player will be matched with or against a premade in a majority of games. Now for me personally I haven't noticed any premades in my games as a solo player at all, but through the boards there can be many posts seen where people claim they get a premade in over 50% of their games. Do you know if there's any setting in which a person would be more likely to get a match with premades that could explain this, or are these summoners jumping to conclusions on the frequency?

PhDs NutsJun 5, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Errrrr this is just straight up untrue...

LP losses and gains are calculated from the adjusted MMR of a match (so the average AFTER accounting for premades). I'm not going to speak to the perceived fairness of a match vs. premades while it's going on, but in terms of LP gains, there's no "solo punishment" built into the way that stuff is calculated.

Strangely enough, historically it has often been a bad idea to queue as a premade when you're looking to climb (assuming no smurfs). Your ability to communicate and work together has to be really strong to outweigh the fact that you're being matched against lane opponents who are likely to be straight up better than you.

So the penalty is that your premade teammates will be more likely to lose lane against higher MMR opponents.

Icestar1186Jun 5, 20161 votes

Science! Or more accurately, Math!

UmioJun 20, 20161 votes

Assuming no smurfs? There are always smurfs - And teaming a lower mmr'd premade with a solo is a disadvantage to the solo. Its not "balanced" - Allow groups of 2,3,5 only and put them against each other - thats fair. Match the solos to the solos.

MrSnaidenNov 30, 20161 votes

u tell me right now that you actually dont punish players for playing dynamic or duo and after it solo again in season 6 before i dynamic or duo q i played solo q and had an 80 percent winrate after i dynamic and duo q my winrate in solo dropped to 15 percent with people just being extremely extremely lower than enemy sometimes it was as bad as 20 leagues difference with teams you tell me 30 / 10 games with 25 k gold difference are winnable ill buy you fakers mouse and let michael jordan sign it youre system is 100 percent rigged and punished dynamic q and duo q because after you paly with others the system doesnt realize you stopped playing with them thus you get extremely low teammates who 90 percent of the time lose their lane but not a little bit but by around 50 farm and 5 kills at minute 15 add that up with 4 more towers

yeah you get the idea my mmr on my account was tottally rigged after i played dynamic and duo

it has become unplayable to a point where games are decided by minute 9 because enemy team already has 10-15 kills and 2 towers plus drake you tell me that its preventable and normal im cool and i just quit the game because i dont belong here

but man there is a problem before i played dynamic q my winrate was 80percent on an average kda of 8 on all champs

man thats a blunder

guess you just fucked up the match making

watch the dumb ass answer below me. baby why you lying . why the fuck you lying

Riot is punishing solo players with heavier LP losses in dynamic queue

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