Rito Make Runeglave Like the old old ap Jg With spellvamp

WTFMatee·Jul 16, 2015·1 votes·382 views

I think the old old item for AP junglers worked better than all of these youve tried.

Simply 80 AP And spell vamp maybe throw in 10% cDr

Reason is ad junglers have good sustain in the jungle and can just go to lanes

AP Junglers need to be able to gank after they clear jungle.

I think thats a big problem right now with rune glaive

At least it gives mana but you get blue buffs anyway

I feel like the Spell vamp jungle item was good and no one seemed to complain

Blah blah blah have a good day

3 Comments

ErockandrollJul 16, 20151 votes

Honestly, I don't like the Idea of putting sustain on a Jungle item. That's what made the Spirit stone items Problematic in season 4. They lost nothing by going all damage Early cause they sustained it up. All while having the fastest clear speeds of any other junglers. (which was why only 3 champs were dominant back then)

Junglers can work with sustain, But I don't actually think that has to come from the Jungle item itself. No one is stoping an AD Jungler from building Lifesteal item. No one will stop an AP from building WotA.

Also, Your not looking at the bigger picture when You discredit the Mana Sustain on RuneGlaive. If AP Junglers could hog Blue Buff, they would fair decently against the rest. But as it stands, Blue is still a Team buff, and for the most part, more effective on your mid laner. The only reason Why I would have picked a AP Jungler is if the mid lane was Yasuo, Vlad, someone else who does not use mana. But that just makes them niche.

Honestly I think RuneGlaive was the right Idea, just with Poor execution. Because AP Junglers can't actually be 100% reliant on spells, They must Auto Attack in between. The Sheen passive helps them clear fast, and sustain their mana. I think the Unreasonable expectation that people have is that it should help Junglers gank. I call it unreasonable, because just about any power on a Jungle item that helps the Jungler gank, would inevitably help the item's presence in lane. Same thing with Cinderhulk when it's lane presence was OP. It was focused around clearing jungle camps.

WTFMateeJul 16, 20151 votes

Ill definately agree i think that the mana was a very great idea (im just that ass hole junlger that never gives you blue ;D) It's moreso i like the spell vamp because like season 2 it allowed many ap's the ability to jungle creating extreme diverse champion pool.

I mean anyone can play mid lane even mid soraka was a think before. I just like the idea of being able to play anything in the jungle. It makes the game less stale and provides more opportunities for champions to be revived.

The reason you can't build wota from jungle is you need your core jungle item and if your a champ that cant clear fast enough after jungle item then your too late to start building wota anyway.

I see your point about spirit stone but i honestly think now with the new AD jungle items it would be about even

Also a thanks for a lengthy response. I like getting conversations like this going about something like a barely viable jungle item

ErockandrollJul 16, 20151 votes

Riot was trying to be less definitive about who Should be able to Jungle. When they made the Jungling passive more transparent for different kinds of Junglers. Though they definitely don't want Certain champs Jungling (Like Alistar)

AP Jungler need to be Extremely kit reliant. They usually lack the sustained damage from Auto Attacks that ADs have. And they lack the Tanky sustain that most Tanks have. Yet despite that, they can't have lots of overt damage for Clear speed, As that can make them Abusive in lane. But the Item can't be OP either, for pretty much the same reason, because they don't want it abused in lane. So to that end, not any AP champion can Jungle. It has to be someone who can jungle decently well, even before getting a Jungle item. (You could add "bonus damage to monsters," to some of their abilities, but that's pretty lazy.)

Over all with Jungle item balance. Clear speed, is the primary metric for measuring the balance of Jungle items. This is due to the fact that if one class of champion had way better clear speed that the other, the others would be perpetually behind in gold, level, and experience. (which isn't a good reason for an item/class of champ, to be strong). This was most noticeable with the introduction of Cinderhulk. Before Cinderhulk, Tank Jungler were did not have much in the way of clear speed. Which not only put them behind in gold/exp, but made them Vulnerable to invades. And Juggernaut was the only Jungle item who did not help their respective Junglers clear in some fashion. (unless the Tank Jungler had HP ratios, and most of the time those were moot) With Cinderhulk Tank Jungler's Clear speeds are more comparable to their counterparts, while giving them a scaling late game advantage as a counterpart to the early advantage that warrior has.

Last point I'll make. I don't like the Idea of giving more sustain. (any more sustain on a jungle item that the jungler passive + smite buffs) It would give them a Unique Advantage that other Jungler won't have. (A possibly Oppressive Advantage) And that is, having enough sustain to return to the jungle after a gank (success or failed) and come out with enough health to perform another gank. The only way to match that is if you have the Sustain in your champions kit. (Nid, yi, anyone with a heal.) Or if you buy Life steal. And all that said, that advantage falls off if your going glass cannon AP. You'll still be just as easy to kill unless you had the defenses or the dueling power to make use of the spell vamp to full effect. So Even that would sub divide viability (or competitiveness) of AP Junglers.

You could add sustain on AP Junglers on a champ to champ basis where they make sense for their kit. I think it would be a more interesting mechanic to avoid damage, all together. Either by CC the camps so they can't reach you, or using a pet to soak up some of the damage, while increasing your DPS. That is to say, If their are any non Jungling AP champs who are good candidates to become Junglers, It would be the likes of Zyra or Heimerdinger.