Ranked is just a grind, riot just wants you to play more

bywords70··11 votes·2,725 views

So while I'm waiting around for the season to reset, I see that my last games were against d2s while im in d4. So to climb I need to beat people higher than my current rank.

Let's say my actual skill level is d2 but my current rank is d4 and I get 4 more lp for a win than a loss. So on average to get 100 lp I need to play 50 games for d2-d3 with a 50% win rate, and I probably get like 2 more lp for a win than a loss in d3 for another 100 games. So if my actual skill level is 2 ranks above the current rank I am, on average I need to play 150 games.

Very good system you have here riot, getting people to mindlessly grind in a high variance game.

28 Comments

MysterQ4 votes

Yea, Riot WANTS you to play 100games.

rtbf2216514124 votes

Oh look, someone else see's what I saw. But hey, people will tell you that you belong where you are. Lul

PhearBunny3 votes

I'm unsure of what my skill level is. But here are my stats, and I have a decent pool of stats to go off of.

Plat5- 152 games. 98.8% win rate. Plat4- 102 games, 4.6% win rate.

Hitting plat4 at my MMR seems to trigger the matchmaking to load me up with sub-40% win rate hardstuck golds(Ive confirmed this actually). Literally 4/4 teammates are around 42% or lower winrate, with like 800 games in gold, when I enter plat4. In 100% of my matches.

My plat5 games are a reasonable balance of plats and golds on both sides, and it pretty much requires my PC to explode for me to lose.

But I am definitely not good enough to carry 4 players that got placed in gold, when they should have been placed in silver or bronze, through a game vs all Diamond/Platinum quality Plat players. I just cant do it.

Hibeki2 votes

Either you have no games to pol from or that statstic is total horseshit.

PhearBunny1 votes

dahell is pol

LegitBusinessman2 votes

{quoted}

I'm unsure of what my skill level is. But here are my stats, and I have a decent pool of stats to go off of.

Plat5- 152 games. 98.8% win rate. Plat4- 102 games, 4.6% win rate.

Hitting plat4 at my MMR seems to trigger the matchmaking to load me up with sub-40% win rate hardstuck golds(Ive confirmed this actually). Literally 4/4 teammates are around 42% or lower winrate, with like 800 games in gold, when I enter plat4. In 100% of my matches.

My plat5 games are a reasonable balance of plats and golds on both sides, and it pretty much requires my PC to explode for me to lose.

But I am definitely not good enough to carry 4 players that got placed in gold, when they should have been placed in silver or bronze, through a game vs all Diamond/Platinum quality Plat players. I just cant do it.

I have similar experience. Anything below s2-s1 my sivir winrate in preseason was high 70%. Get to games with high golds / low silvers and its just people who don't know what they're doing, trolls, afkers, and a bunch of new 30s and I know for a fact my winrate is below 50% in that area. I swear the people in Silver 5 had more game knowledge than the people 5 divisions above them.

ChiTenshi3 votes

Plus, you have to prove you're worthy of a certain Rank by playing against said Rank rather than proving you're better than the Rank you're currently in.

I'm Gold 5 but why am I getting match-made against Plat 5? If my skill cap. is Gold 2, why do I have to prove I can play better than said Rank?

elo trash3 votes

You know whats a grind? getting blue essence in 2017.

Zelorxon2 votes

No bro, the fact that i'm always 3 levels up everybody else in my game, huge scores, turret damage and I ACTUALLY COACH PEOPLE NOW AND I'M HORRIFIED BY SEVERAL MASTERS/CHALLENGER PLAYERS IN EUW/NA for how they're bad, and my team int loses/int feeds/trolls and mocks me in chat just means that i'm bad and i deserve silver bro. The fact that i have WAY better knowledge and mechanics than 2 diamond fives i'm playing with just means that i'm bad bro.

This shit was debunked YEARS ago, but there's always a few hundreds of morons that pop out like mushrooms and go with squeaky voice "it's just you being bad, if you're actually good you'll eventually climb!"

No fucking shit, of course if i keep grinding games i'll eventually climb, most boosters duo ESPECIALLY for this reason, that 4/5 of the games you play are games that shouldn't even have happened, but riot throws them in the dough so that they always have water to make their engine work.

At this point i've just became careless, maybe i'll be able to start a coaching activity, which will be hard since you have to impress bronzetards with your shiny badge in order to earn their trust, but now i mainly grind missions/icons/keys and stuff with a couple of normals a day, fuck this game.

Brain Errör 4041 votes

You can't coach anyone if you're stuck in silver...

I'm sorry to say, but that's not a good starting point and being stuck in a elo where no one knows how to play just shows that you're not good enough to climb. When you start playing vs people that DO know how to play, that's when the game gets a bit different and you can consider yourself "hard stuck". You can climb to gold with game knowledge alone with shitty mechanics.

You can problem even cap at plat... if you can't then it's pretty difficult to say you deserve anything other than silver and you have "better" knowledge and mechanics than D5s.

Zelorxon2 votes

*i already did it

*comes in a literally who with squeaky voice

"B...but you can't do thath b...becaushe... uuuh... becaushe you can't do that!"

"But i just said that i already did it."

*moment of silence, trickle of saliva drips off the half closed mouth

"uuuuh... NOOB! TOXIC! REPORTED! SILVER! HARDSTUCK!"

Found the first reason why you're bad at league, and most likely in many other areas but that's none of my business....

Brain Errör 4045 votes

Obvious troll. You're cringe af. Have a good day sir.

AleksaTeemo1 votes

Actually,if you have good game knowledge you can coach.Its just that some people cant apply mechanics/game knowledge into their games because they simply cant.

Brain Errör 4041 votes

That only works if you only watch and study league without actually playing it. This guy obviously plays on a daily basis. Playing on a daily basis/studying and watching league that gives you the knowledge etc to climb and being UNABLE to get out of silver elo, the AVERAGE elo where people know next to NOTHING about the game is already indication enough that you simply do NOT have the knowledge that you're speaking off.

LS is one of the better coaches in the game, but he's no korean challenger player (though he's peaked challenger and currently sitting at masters), yet even challenger players go to him for help. This being said, I don't discredit the fact that lower elos can coach higher, but there's a set limit you should be able to climb to to prove that you have said knowledge. Silver isn't one of those.

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

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Zelorxon2 votes

The system is actually PERFECT, on paper, because it assumes that everybody is giving their 100% and trying to win, it gets used in chess as well, but in chess tournaments you don't have the underaged squealing kid that starts pissing over the chessboards of every player near him and starts going around yelling and making farts with his armpits telling people "he's just having a bad game™".

Cavesloth3 votes

{quoted}

To be fair, there is no better system for a moba. The mmr system for all of its flaws and far and away the best system out there for a moba. The best is simply never going to be good in a 5v5 game which is as complex as a moba. Granted stuff like poor game balance and autofill make the system worse but everyone seems to ignore the real problems and blame everything on matchmaking.

Um, no there is. Its not having your promos actively go out of there way to fuck you. You're trying to climb from bronze1 to silver5? Ok can you beat a team of PlatVs with a team BronzeVs? No? Too bad, try again, maybe you get lucky...

Karunamon2 votes

The MMR system maybe, but not this optimization for "50% win rate". You shouldn't have to play at Diamond level to win a game in mid-Gold just because you're on a streak and the system decided you're going to be loaded with underperformers.

No ELO system in the history of ELO systems works that way, and I have no idea why this one is implemented the way it is. How does that lead to a satisfactory outcome for anyone concerned?

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

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Karunamon1 votes

Except there is a very visible "wall" you hit after a winstreak. MMR doesn't rise that faster after merely winning 3 to 5 games in a row, certainly not enough to suddenly place you against teams that perform better than you / teammates that are worse than you.

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

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Karunamon1 votes

That assumes that the MMR is unbiased - something we can't prove one way or another since Riot hides that from us. All we have to go on is the matchups. If it were pure MMR/ELO, and you're constantly winning, you'd expect a gradual climb, during which your games become harder and harder. You'd also expect the matchups to be close, rather than one-sided curbstomps.

Instead, it's a lot more dramatic than that. And from the stories on record where people are getting matched with others that are two or more full ranks above them (a low-mid Gold team getting matched with a mid-high Diamond team), it doesn't seem "unbiased".

I think what's happening is that the bias for close skill is nonexistent. Instead, we're getting shitty matchups because queue times or something.

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

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Karunamon2 votes

And the stories on record are just that, stories. They are from people who do not understand how mmr works who mistakenly pull ranked mmr for normal games, solo queue data for flex games, or third party mmr estimations which are notoriously inaccurate.

There is no acceptable matchmaking system in which players ranked in middle Gold are getting matched against middle Diamond. Period, end of story. If you are skilled enough to get in the top 20% of players, you don't suddenly forget how to play the same damn game with the same damn rules because you clicked "normal" instead of "ranked solo". Yet the ranked system pretends you do, matching up high Bronze and unranked players against golds and diamonds.

Yet, this happens. You can't just write off these incidents as lies or misinformation or clickbait.

Adding bias as people claims actually significantly adds to queue times because it forces mmr to look for specific players.

That doesn't even make sense.

If your MMR means you should be getting matched against nothing higher than maybe one full league up, you have Y potential partners. By expanding the scope of the search to another full league up from there means you now have Y+Z potential partners at the cost of game quality. By lowering the scope of the search to another full league below your current skill, you now have X+Y+Z. Theoretically, the better your playing, the faster your queue times, since you're hypothetically getting matched against better enemies and with worse teammates than if you just stayed within a division or two of your current league.

More people in queue of different skills = lower queue times.

As a result, we have stuff like mmr estimators across different websites giving at times wildly inaccurate mmrs which is causing confusion amoung the people viewing them.

Huh, so maybe we can behave like every other damn MOBA out there and just show MMR?

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

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Karunamon1 votes

Here is the thing, the mmr system isn't doing that.

That's kind of my point, it is doing that, as a consequence of separating solo queue from normals. If you only ever play ranked, and get up to, say, Master, and then go play normals, you will be stomping people left and right until your hidden normals MMR catches up.

That kinda sucks.

And worse yet, it's unintuitive and misleading. The league client (with the borders and infocard popups) and every third party site out there puts your rank right next to your name as if its a reflection of your skill. And it is - but for some reason, when you go into normals, we treat all of that information as if it doesn't exist.

And so, you get obviously unfair cases on the front page where a team of unrankeds and silvers winds up against a team of golds and diamonds. It's a different mode, but it doesn't matter since a diamond will outplay a bronze in any game mode.

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