yet its already been quite a while and her win rate is still among the lowest in the game. obviously the champion not freelo and theres no evidence of her being strong at all.
yes she plays like nidalee but nidalee was trash to being with. too much damage frontloaded onto one ability that is dodgable makes her damage literally 0 if you miss the skill shot.
UnknownTerritory12 votesShe can do her combo constantly*[zombie-brand-facepalm]*
Somebody Love Me5 votesI play a lot of Zoe, and she feels kinda strong, but she does take a lot of work and effort to pull off. I still haven't mastered her, but I can tell she's on the stronger side.
Just because they have a high skillcap, doesn't mean they're balanced. If they want to nerf her, I'd say either nerf the duration of her sleep effect, or lower the duration of how long the trap lingers after missing.
Truly Prideful2 votesPretty much my feelings on her too. I don't feel like her sleep puddle needs to linger quite as long as it does given how powerful it is. It could also probably do without the cooldown reduction on hit since it's pretty easy to cap CDR in a mage build anyways.
Something I would also kind of consider changing is how the loot table on her W works. The 'big items' probably shouldn't be able to show up so early in lane, picking up a gunblade pretty much wins me the lane because it's such a huge free nuke. Maybe have them start showing up when Zoe herself hits level 9 or something.
Somebody Love Me1 votesOh yeah, in all my games, I've always gotten Gunblade first thing level 3. That's kinda not okay.
Somebody Love Me2 votesOh yeah, in all my games, I've always gotten Gunblade first thing level 3. That's kinda not okay.
DoktorKaiser5 votesShe is extremely complex and hard to play, as is every single of CertainlyT's champions. Also the fact is that all of them are extremely op, gamebreaking and unfun to play against. Zoe is no different. Thus the 44% win rate, but I am saying it now that she will be a huge balancing problem pretty soon...
yeulx4 votesyeah i agree people says shes op because her Q is where all her damage is loaded into. people who have NO games as zoe are complaining that shes broken and op while not understanding her kit at all... her and its easy to avoid her stuff.. tho say you see a zoe... you can also get Clense and QSS but people just dont respect her and they get destroyed
Paladin 0f Life7 votesyeah i agree people says shes op because her Q is where all her damage is loaded into. people who have NO games as zoe are complaining that shes broken and op while not understanding her kit at all... her and its easy to avoid her stuff.. tho say you see a zoe... you can also get Clense and QSS but people just dont respect her and they get destroyed
I played her on pbe a bit. The ult E Q is just stupid i tracked 1000 dmg at 6 and 1600 at 15 and that is true damage. play anything wihtout mobility and you are a sitting duck if she gets close cuz idk the free flash or gunblade at lvl 2?
Nupli3 votesonly the E part is true damage... the Q is magic damage
Nyarlathοtep5 votesYou cant evade if you are asleep :/
yeulx4 votesthats the point... your suppose to flash.. CLense.... Qss... get those items... tho it also takes a few seconds for you to fall asleep so you can easily put yourself in a favorable position
Dope Solo5 votesThat's usually not enough, and flashing isn't going to work anway. I've had lots of practice with trying to riftwalk away. It doens't work and you end up taking even more damage. The problem is this: the more range you have on an ability, the less damage it should do. That goes for everything. True damage? Cmon, this thing is toxic broken and I'm not at all surprised considering the source.
yeulx4 voteseven still its easy to play around her her long range Qs are unreliable as well Saying its toxic and broken is just stupid... she can be played around easily.... you being silver 5 it makes sense but like any champion.. To Know how to play against her you have to play the champion a few times to understand how her kit works... Otherwise.. your just blindly saying shes op... Go play 10 games as zoe i expect it to be in your match history by tomorrow then re evaluate ... tho its going to probably take you a few games to understand how her kit works
Dope Solo1 votesThat's really the problem, "just play around them" /= counterplay. 
yeulx3 votesno they do have counter play.. its just harder to do than most tho note people are not even seeing the best zoe players coming out yet
Dope Solo2 votesI've played against new champs before. Zoe is broken. This isn't typical of new champs.
yeulx3 votesshes strong.. not broken.... and alot of champions they have made recently are pretty balanced
Dope Solo2 votesReally? How about Ornn?
yeulx3 votesReally? how about ornn wasnt op on release he was buffed shortly after that that ended up making him op ...
Dope Solo3 votesI didn't say he was OP. On release he was really weak. He's probably still underpowered, I hardly ever see him. Yes Virginia, Riot DOES make mistakes. Shocker I know.
yeulx2 votesso whats your point saying Really? how about ornn.... you just proved you saying that had no point
Dope Solo3 votesThe point is that riot doesn't release perfect champions. Ornn was too weak, Zoe is clearly too strong.
yeulx2 votesyes riot doesnt release perfect champions but tbh you still have no idea what your talking about since you dont even play her your match history only consists of 
so tbh how can you sit there talking about to strong when you dont know how her kit works? come back and talk when you play a few games of her.. and im not talking about 2 games and without playing a champion you cant fully comprehend how to play around it so still before crying about being op.. i hate people like you who just sit there complaining about a champion without playing it your the 7th person ive come across doing that with -0 zoe games....
Dope Solo2 votesYour comment criterion would leave out all of the people on league who have only played against her, yet still seem to agree that she's OP. Cease and desist the logical fallacies. You're clearly out of your league. Stop defending your OP champ because you want to nuke every handful of seconds and git gud instead.
exsanguinated1 votesEvery single thread you pull out the same old 'Ill be a little noob and check out their profile and say "hur hur ur silver u plebster so stfu kys!" because somehow I am idiotic enough to think it boosts my pathetic, biased argument' tactic. So anyone not Gold or above can't be right? What percentage of the League base is Silver or below? Shut up mate.
John de Gou2 votesif u get hit by zoe's skillshots while riftwalk is up, you're just plain bad... zoe Q is as thin as nid's Q which makes it shit for long range without CC. besides, kassadin has 15% magic dmg resist as passive. you should pubstomp zoe every single game(coming from kassa main)
Dope Solo1 votesWho said anything about getting hit while riftwalk was up? No one. In fact, I bet if you were paying that much attention you would notice that most of the negative comments surrounding Zoe's overclocked power level have come from people that aren't just playing Kassadin. I bet if you bothered to look, you would find quite a few people are getting hit by both Nid's and Zoe's Q, despite how "thin" it is. Context is important! I didn't realize this many millenials were so autistic.
Nyarlathοtep2 votesthats the point... your suppose to flash
Thats bad gameplay design.
CLense
Im afraid that flash and heal/barrier is much more important.
Qss
You cant buy qss if you are mage.
tho it also takes a few seconds for you to fall asleep so you can easily put yourself in a favorable position
It takes more or less a single second to fall asleep. To put it into perspective how fast it cooks. By the time you fall asleep, you will be hit by her comet. ( keystone )
yeulx3 votesmakes me wonder how your a gold player with those ideals right there higher elo players would happily trade out summoner spells to things like clense to prevent CC.... your ideas as a player are not good and bad for gameplay..... a champion being able to make you flash bad gameplay? imo flash is to powerfull of a summoner spell and lets people who shouldnt be able to get away get away.. heal and barrier they are not much more important thats why league has made multiple summoner spells Clense is strong to stop CC and you see alot of higher elo players sometimes swap out for clense to avoid the niche spots where they would get CCd and die
yeah you cant buy Qss as a mage but stop beign greedy with your summoner spells and swap them out thats why there are so many summoner spells the way you make it sound is ... say your vsing a zed... would you run ignite or would you run exhaust.... obvious answer is exhaust... so your point is bad there..... tho then something like Qss wouldnt work on zed but mages could get hourglass
you still have enough time to put yourself in a favorable position... her Q travels in only a straight line... say your in lane... hide behind minions Q cant travel through them if she wants to get those long range qs off
tho another point why her E is strong is because it needs to be its not like a stun... so Any point of damage even minion damage will break the sleep.... so say your about to sleep try to get an ability off on her to make your minions hit you in lane.....
now when your moving about in the jungle thats where it gets a little tricky... players play with the walls of the jungle are basically safe... with zoe you cant do that and you have to play smart
would happily trade out summoner spells to things like clense to prevent CC
Well im going to trade a barrier or heal for a cleanse. If my enemy laner has strong point and click cc. Like annie. And until they nerf a bit zoe's e i will act like her e is point and click too.
a champion being able to make you flash bad gameplay
Oh so in order to counterplay some champs i have to rely on summoner spells. Damn nice idea.
imo flash is to powerfull of a summoner spell and lets people who shouldnt be able to get away get away
Im almost 100% sure this will be only thing we are going to agree on.
heal and barrier they are not much more important thats why league has made multiple summoner spells
Not really. If only there was heal and flash lol would have less variety. THats why there are multiple summoner spells.
yeah you cant buy Qss as a mage but stop beign greedy with your summoner spells and swap them out thats why there are so many summoner spells the way you make it sound is ... say your vsing a zed... would you run ignite or would you run exhaust.... obvious answer is exhaust... so your point is bad there..... tho then something like Qss wouldnt work on zed but mages could get hourglass
I do run exhaust ( when im a squishy mage ) when im against zed. But again, its not good gameplay design.
you still have enough time to put yourself in a favorable position her Q travels in only a straight line... say your in lane... hide behind minions Q cant travel through them if she wants to get those long range qs off
No you dont. After you are drowsy you have about a second before you fall asleep. Also while her q cant go through minions it deals aoe dmg around the target so yeah. You have to be kinda away from your minions too. I mean being behind only wont do.
tho another point why her E is strong is because it needs to be its not like a stun... so Any point of damage even minion damage will break the sleep.... so say your about to sleep try to get an ability off on her to make your minions hit you in lane.....
True but you do know that abilities dont draw agro right?
now when your moving about in the jungle thats where it gets a little tricky... players play with the walls of the jungle are basically safe... with zoe you cant do that and you have to play smart
I dont have any particular problems with that actually.
yeulx3 votesyou can almost say everything is bad gameplay design then... Nocturn beign able to use his ulti to jump right on you from miles away and insta kill you is bad gameplay.... Ekko jumping on you with E then Q and then passive being able to insta kill you is bad gameplay... League is full of bad gameplay its our job as the player base to learn and adapt to it find counters find ways to avoid it.... im not saying its easy to avoid her stuff.. but im saying its not impossible to... note we are not even seeing the best zoe players yet once we start seeing those youll be hurting.... in order to avoid her abilities you have to perfectly position behind your minions not to close but not to far... and yeah people should be running a clense when they see her tho.. like how you run exhaust versing a zed... riot provided us with the tools we have to use them and yeah i agree with the flash thing as well... one thing that ive always hated how flash is always mandatory on people these days and you would think now flash is bad gameplay design when every game has it
you can almost say everything is bad gameplay design then
You are kinda right but then lol wouldnt be lol ( i cant put it into better words :/ )
Nocturn beign able to use his ulti to jump right on you from miles away
True but he can do this only late game, also it deals low dmg again until late, and once he commits there is no turning back.
Ekko jumping on you with E then Q and then passive being able to insta kill you is bad gameplay
Well unless he is fed he wont hurt that much.
and yeah people should be running a clense when they see her tho
Here's the problem with running niche summoner spells. They will help you ( most of the times ) only against her. Lets say at a teamfight you are getting attacked by an assassin. Cleanse wont really help you, unlike barrier. Thats the problem. Barrier kinda helps against zoe, cleanse is even better. But barrier overall is better than cleanse.
riot provided us with the tools we have to use them
True, but those tools are there to help us slightly. Or at least should. I shouldnt pick a particular summoner to survive the lane. I should outplay it, which unfortunately is not possible since most assassin can outplay and mages cant.
Alderscroft2 votes{quoted} You cant buy qss if you are mage.
Uh... yea you can? It's cheaper than Zhonya's and would be beneficial even if you can't build it into anything later. The cleanse and the MR are both good for matchups against cc mages.
DoktorKaiser1 votes1 thing is having to flash a Malphite ult that has like a 2 min cooldown. Having to flash a CC that has <10 second cooldown is not a counterplay, its cancer.
ValyrianBlade4 votesZoe's win rate is still garbage because most people suck on her. The "OP" posts cause even more people to try her. The missions for her cause more people to try her. Her win rate may stay low longer, but that doesn't mean she isn't OP.
You only need to play against a couple Zoe's that are actually trying and know her kit to realize how broken she is. 75% of the Zoe players I see are clueless, using R in worthless positions and missing every Q they throw. Then you get the 25% that actually use her kit cohesively and they just wreck absolutely everyone. The E is way too reliable, and the Q does way too much damage when she can set it up herself. For example, Veigar's W is WAY harder to land than Zoe's Q, and yet it does significantly less damage and Zoe can land her CC E more reliably than Veigar can land his (although Veigar's is arguably stronger when it does land).
Zoe is OP in my opinion... it's only a matter of time until her win rate spikes unless Riot nerfs her preemptively.
Dope Solo3 votesBecause a game thats made up of League of one-hit would just suck shit and isn't fun to play, win lose or draw.
Revali3 votesShe's going to have azir syndrome in winrate.
Sirsir3 votesShe is relevant therefore she is broken. Thats how the forums work
Dope Solo3 votesYou have that backwards: She's broken therefore its relevant.
Valderis Vandala3 votesShe's considered a harder to play champion, so don't expect her to have a high win rate even if she is a little OP. People need more time to truly come to grips with the champion both to play as and against, give it a month then look at the win rate stat divided by how little or much people have played her.
I'm not saying she's OP, I'm not one of the people complaining about this champion, I don't care for all that.
deadlychuck3 votesObnoxious != OP
Yasuo, Kalista, ... basically all CertainlyT champions are obnoxious to play against.
It doesn't matter if they're at a 40% win rate, people will still want them nerfed into the ground because of how many mistakes you can make on the champions while still having enough room between the power floor and ceiling that doing anything right makes you insanely powerful.
It's seen as acceptable to make champions which are "harder to play" (more accurate to say mechanically exhausting) more powerful, but by making them more powerful they offset any difficulty of the mechanics with power of the numbers. This results in a champion design which is less appealing to players who want to play a challenging champion to master and more exploitable by people who simply want to min-max.
Dope Solo4 votesHorseshit. There's nothing challenging about re-trying the same combo every handful of seconds.
deadlychuck2 votes... there's a reason I put "harder to play" in quotes...
They're really isn't anything harder about these champions, because you're still going to be limited to the same range of inputs of every other champion in the game (Right mouse btn, Q, W, E, R). Until we get the first DDR character, kappa, all champions are going to be about the same difficulty to play.
Even then that's the point of me saying they're mechanically exhausting. they require a lot of rapid input from the player, but that input isn't inherently harder than one with slower more precise input requirements.
Though, again it doesn't matter what their win rate is, because CertainlyT champions almost always dictate the pacing of a fight. Which is why they're so obnoxious. Your champion selection is almost irrelevant, because, let's just use, yasuo beats a tank or mage who has a lower tempo play style is to play even higher tempo.
Nupli3 voteswhat... if you make a mistake as Zoe your laner would have to be an ape to not capitalize. If she doesn't have her E she can't kill you and her ult is a 2s self root. her laning phase is complete shit against almost any ranged champ and she gets destroyed by early ganks. She is a new kind of champ concept that we have to get used to and i agree that some parts of her kit are overloaded but all in all if her W gets the item pool nerf people are talking about and E gets a bit longer of a cooldown with the reduction removed. She will be a perfectly fine champ. The damage is fine, its what zoe is meant to do as a champ. :)
