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MAJOR UNAVOIDABLE IVERN ISSUE

CorruptedScythe·9/21/2016, 12:51:48 AM·123 votes·9,258 views

Ivern will inherently be better on the blue side of the map. He can share red buff with his adc and blue buff with his mid laner with no problem. However, Ivern on the red side will not be able to do this. Because top laners can't normally make use of red buff as well as adcs can, I believe that there will be a big win rate discrepency between red and blue side Ivern, and I'm not sure there's anything that can be done to rectify the issue. The champ's broken before it even comes out.

Also. Caitlyn is sort of the same way - Red side Cait can hide traps next to blue side tower - she puts them in a place that takes advantage of camera angle to make it impossible to see. A Caitlyn on red side can't take advantage of the hidden traps. I have no knowledge about whether or not the winrates for the two are significantly different (even half a percent), but it's the same concept.

Edit: Even if you don't agree with me that bot lane can best use it, it doesn't really matter. If top can use it significantly better than bot, the point still stands except that the opposite Ivern is better.

Also. How do I get so many upvotes with all my comments saying I'm not right? xD

199 Comments

Verxint9/21/2016, 12:56:37 AM61 votes

What are you talking about? Top laners love red buff.

CerealBoxOfDoom9/21/2016, 1:24:20 AM16 votes

{quoted}

Because top laners can't normally make use of red buff as well as adcs can

red buff-

This unit's physical attacks apply a debuff that slows the target's movement speed by 10 / 15 / 25% (halved to 5 / 7.5 / 12.5% for ranged champions) for 3 seconds and a DoT that deals 4 - 38 (based on level) bonus true damage three times. Also heals buff holder by 1 / 3 / 9% of their maximum health per 5 seconds out of combat. If the buff holder is slain, this buff is transferred to the killer.

red buff translated -

Slow opponents and deal bonus true damage on attack that scales with attack speed... you also get a garen buff on a lower cooldown

Omg what are toplaners possibly gonna do with that shitty buff!?!

Serika Zero9/21/2016, 11:52:34 AM10 votes

As a mid main and top off-lane. Aatrox - Red buff? 0w0 fuck yeh, now I can actually win 1v1s Akali - Red buff? meh, oh well, a bit more dmg to my burst and slow to my 3 dashes can't hurt now, can it :D Darius - Hmmm. DO I LOOK LIKE I NEED YOUR RED? for the notice, yes I do, I'm full red. (Honestly a Darius with Red would most likely have full top lane dominance until it expires) Ekko - I got 3 slows in my kit, but no true damage. Bringing on boys. Fiora - FOR FRENCH, for glory. And for MORE TRUE DAMAGE AND EASIER ULT KILLS (if targets moves slower, its easier to position a vital strike) Gangplank - You know my Q counts as an Auto attack right? And your know my QE counts as an AoE auto attack right? Gnar - GNAAAARDADADADADADADA. (as a top laner that gets a huge power spike on fronzen mallet, imagine if he gets a similar effect on ~7-8 minutes in the game).

Seriously, listing top laners that want red buff makes the list to long. Those that don't care if they receive it or not: Mundo, Illaoi, Heimerdinger, Garen, Nasus, Singed, and maybe Rumble. That's about it. Like over 66% of the pool would like it. And some would be really broken with constant red buff. Gnar, Irelia and Darius come to mind.

Why I don't have tanks like Maokai or Malphite listed? Because these guys actually benefit from it, especially vs another tank. Dealing true damage to the enemy matters a lot in duels, even more if you can cc them during that time.

IF ANYTHING, it would be more broken for top laners due to how volatile the lane is, and how easy is to dominate the lane with a small advantage. Meanwhile on bot there are 2v2s. If the enemy (or your allies) play it safe, its gona be much harder to take advantage of that red buff. Mainly due to ranged farming allowing less opportunities to use red buff. But in a Caitlyn/Mf vs Vayne match-up. That vayne is fucked....... So, range would be very important. Still if your support dominates bot lane, especially early game, you can still live on.

DrCyanide9/21/2016, 12:55:13 AM2 votes

... I give up, how is it easier for him to gift it to his ADC than any other Jungler? Both require the ADC to walk to the buff and get it.

IcyPepper9/21/2016, 12:59:05 AM2 votes

Lane swaps?

Liquid Sloth9/21/2016, 12:59:57 AM1 votes

The only way to avoid this is to COUNTER THE PEACEFUL JUNGLER. Maybe make it to where if you attack a camp much like a enemy ivern it cancels your iverns passive. Also to prevent easy counter jungling I beleive iverns passive should gradually heal camps for 3-5 seconds if already being attacked be4 being canceled again if the jungle is still being attacked.

Your problem can be valid or invalid. Because Ivern for the most part looks like he doesnt do alot of damage and he kind of really just looks like a support jungle role. So his allies would need that as well as him to be relevant.