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Riot, can you at least accept that you messed up with DQ?

Emerald Fang··29 votes·916 views

Yeah, we all hate it. It's trash. I personally couldn't care less, but the majority of players on boards hate it. But you have to accept that Riot will never change it back.

When's the last time Riot made a mistake and then reverted it, or even admitted to messing up, b/c they realized it was an issue?

keep thinking...

Never. Riot is just too stubborn to admit their mistakes and reverse them. Riot, it's perfectly fine to screw up. Everyone does it. But not admitting it just makes everyone angry. It's clear that you made a mistake by removing soloqueue, something that probably affected at least 20-30% of all players. That's about 14,000,000 players or more. You've upset more people than there are in many states in the US. Yet you haven't even thought of bringing it back and you're now so confident that DQ can work. News flash: no matter how hard you try to balance DQ, it won't work as well as you want. Try to find the EXACT match for players, and you are looking at 20+ minute queue times. Try to shorten queue times, and matchmaking screws up. You can't do it. And, if SOMEHOW you get these two things to coexist, you still have the problem of 4-man premades, which shouldn't even be allowed. The last player just feels left out, and has a communication disadvantage. I've heard rumors of LoL voice chat. That's not going to deter premades from using Skype, as everyone who plays League is somewhat socially awkward and doesn't want to use voice chat with strangers. Finally, the most important thing: Bronze is still hell. Since you (Riot) don't try to fix low ELO, it remains torturous for everyone using it. You're too focused with your High-ELO LCS players. I have not seen an update that affects Bronze/Silver in the last 10 or more patches, and there's so many issues to fix.

The forum posts really bother me. I see Rioter comments on things with 30 or so upvotes/10 comments, actually addressing the problem and explaining if they'll fix it and why/why not. Then, I see a "DQ doesn't work" (or something like that) thread with 200+ upvotes, about 60-70 comments. Riot doesn't even touch it. REALLY? At least SAY SOMETHING about it! It's like you're too afraid to offend us b/c we might quit, so you just ignore it! Another news flash: Everyone's still quitting, and probably faster than if Riot actually addressed this soloqueue problem.

Honestly, it doesn't affect me whether DQ exists or not. I don't have these issues. But many other players do. There's more people than just Challenger, Riot. You never seem to look at low ELO and fix it. If you did, Bronze wouldn't be called "ELO hell", it would just be "Bronze". So please, stop focusing on Diamond and up, and look at low ELO.

21 Comments

BloodyTompon5 votes

Riot, can you at least accept that you messed up with DQ?

They did.

UnwardiI5 votes

{quoted}

They did.

I mean, no they didn't. If they had, we would have Solo Queue back. They SAY we didn't do it right, they didn't say they were wrong to do it. That's what they won't admit.

BloodyTompon1 votes

we didn't do it right

Which is admitting they messed up.

UnwardiI1 votes

{quoted}

Which is admitting they messed up.

I suppose that's technically what the OP said, my point was, however, it's not admitting that they were just wrong and that having Dynamic Queue is a bad choice, which it is.

What I don't think they understand is that while they might be able to get it to a point where it isn't laughably broken, they might even get it to a point where it's workable, it will never be as good as what it was before for the people who liked solo play only. Yes, there aren't as many of us, but there are a fucking LOT of us and they have systematically shit on us for this entire season. And if they want to make the argument that 90% of people like it so we should just accept it, then I will exercise my democratic right to go play a different game instead.

BloodyTompon1 votes

wrong and that having Dynamic Queue is a bad choice, which it is

They're not admitting that because it's debatable. For instance, from the companies perspective you can see how this is not a bad decision if most people like it. I'm not saying it's any less shit for the people who want SoloQ. It's clearly a terrible decision from those peoples eyes.

UnwardiI2 votes

{quoted}

They're not admitting that because it's debatable. For instance, from the companies perspective you can see how this is not a bad decision if most people like it. I'm not saying it's any less shit for the people who want SoloQ. It's clearly a terrible decision from those peoples eyes.

Can I tell you the single thing that would make me accept it?

A little button when I queue up that says SOLO ONLY with a little check box. Clicking this box says "I do not want to be put in a group with ANY sets of premades and I am willing to wait however damn long it takes to make that happen". You give me that button and I will give you your Dynamic Queue.

If everyone loves Dynamic Queue as much as Riot claims, that shouldn't be too much to ask.

BloodyTompon1 votes

Is it only playing with premades you dislike?

UnwardiI1 votes

{quoted}

Is it only playing with premades you dislike?

I mean with or against.

Darksyde1 votes

{quoted}

Can I tell you the single thing that would make me accept it?

A little button when I queue up that says SOLO ONLY with a little check box. Clicking this box says "I do not want to be put in a group with ANY sets of premades and I am willing to wait however damn long it takes to make that happen". You give me that button and I will give you your Dynamic Queue.

If everyone loves Dynamic Queue as much as Riot claims, that shouldn't be too much to ask.

Yea but the problem with that is then DQ queue times go up as well because there would be no solo players to match with groups of 4/3/2

UnwardiI2 votes

{quoted}

Yea but the problem with that is then DQ queue times go up as well because there would be no solo players to match with groups of 4/3/2

But I thought 90% of people liked Dynamic Queue. If that's the case then only 10% of players will be clicking that button and we can all be happy, RIGHT?

GayFluffyUnicorn2 votes

Yesterday i read on the boards from several players we solo players should finally uninstall the game, fuck off and stop complaining. Noones going to miss us? Now you tell me DQ doesn't work without solo players...HMMMMMM. So we are kinda getting sacrificed for the greater good.

Jetjoe5 votes

To be honest I face more issues with dynamic queue and climb as I climbed from bronze to plat. Because there are so many people who are dynamically boosted to plat but have bronze mechanics.

Eevee In A Jar4 votes

They did accept they messed up. That's why they're removing it where competition and skill actually matters. They just want to save face the total humiliation though so they keep it. Oh and also, they hooked in a lot of idiot casuals who would probably quit in a week or two if they see no visible and satisfactory progress. So they gotta keep it here for them.

chipndip11 votes

[{quoted}](name=Eevee In A Jar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Riq4VFhe,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-07-07T16:00:00.569+0000)

They did accept they messed up. That's why they're removing it where competition and skill actually matters. They just want to save face the total humiliation though so they keep it. Oh and also, they hooked in a lot of idiot casuals who would probably quit in a week or two if they see no visible and satisfactory progress. So they gotta keep it here for them.

Or you can't just scrap some project you sink a ton of time and money into like it cost 5 bucks...

Mr Fidori1 votes

Curiosity: How does dynamic queue bring in casuals and keep them? I don't see how even a group of casual players would see much progress in this system simply by playing together.

Eevee In A Jar1 votes

Dynamic Queue caters towards more casual players by generality I'll try to explain as best as possible without sounding biased. Having players you know how they play gives you a natural advantage. In lower elo specifically, it isn't really too hard to capitalize on mistakes of enemies as long as you can spot them and execute the act. After all, the worse players are, the more mistakes they make. It's only natural. Now imagine if you are in a team of premade. It's more fun first of all to play with friends. I won't deny that fact. This encourages casual players to play stakes in rank. There are a lot of players who are unranked and refuse to play rank because it is toxic and so unfamiliar to them. Playing with toxic strangers can be off putting too. So it encourages lower brackets and people who were originally not into rank to try it out more but this time with friends.

Even before Dyn Q was put in, the efficient use of premades was to make sure the two of you played roles that have heavy influence map-wide and make sure you are confident that you will win. That has been turned into using premades to make playing ranked less stressful, less pressure. It is unlikely that a good friend will rage at you for 20 minutes telling you to "KYS" or other terrible insult whereas some kid who is in bronze and was tilted for 10 games because he's bad would go all out. So by default, it makes ranked a much more tolerable to play.

Next, teaming up with premades and learning how your teammates play can have tremendous influence. If your jungler has an aggressive tendency and just picked an early game invader against late game jungler, you might pay attention to when he invades and time it by pushing your wave, then rotating. If you are an ADC and your support likes to play aggressive harass but never engage, then you will not mistakenly get baited in and instead pull out flawless passive aggressive skirmishes.

In lower rank brackets these skill-related issues aren't as prevalent but it does provide a safer environment to rank in.

Mr Fidori1 votes

Ah. That is an issue. But it seems to me that (especially) in lower elos, even that group would only climb so far, partially because they're much more likely to face groups of their size, so the significance of communication is diminished, and partially because they still would lack the basic mechanic skills to climb much higher. I do understand that even still, this means that they'll perform much worse if they try to play solo, but even as a group I would think they wouldn't see too much "progress", maybe a few divisions at best.

It is unlikely that a good friend will rage at you for 20 minutes telling you to "KYS" or other terrible insult

^Side note: Crazy how prevalent this is right? The team that argues first, usually loses (especially down here in S5).

Eevee In A Jar1 votes

Not necessarily. The group can continue to climb albeit they might add new additions to the premade. It is generally smarter to have someone who can carry and be a shot caller even in low ELO's. Even if that person isn't mechanically good, if they know how to close out games, that's all the info you need. That kind of knowledge and timing alone can take you all the way to plat as I see plenty of mechanically lacking people yet are always carrying.

The point is that this system is set up to make the rank system look better and tolerable. The problem is this overlooks all the other players who happen to be queued up alone, putting them in a handicap immediately before the match even starts and banning takes place. I made a post about toxicity regarding premades. While this is still true and they exist in enemy teams as well, it still isn't fun playing against premades and it's stressful playing WITH them since majority of them aren't this perfect exemplary model of what a good teammate or dynamic queue premade should be. After all, it is generally accepted that only .1% of the ladder is really good and the rest is basically garbage/mechanically challenged, right? I think it's Diamond 1 and above (some can argue it's high masters now). If you did it by region, that's about .1% of the rank ladder.

Thing about the people who rage and say KYS, that's not really that prevalent. There are efficient ways to deal with toxicity. Simply mute them. Every single person is capable of being toxic. It is part of fight or flight instinct. If you never get toxic, you inherently lack this survival trait. The problem is it isn't like in real life where people can size up your opponent and physically feel the urge to fight or run. But you get no such scenario and instead are left with stress and pressure. You can only lash out like how your instinct urges. To be a mature and good player is to resist those kinds of things. Game starting talk later peace

season is doomed2 votes

I know I'm going to be downvoted to oblivion, but SoloQ isn't being asked by the majority of players, only by the majority of this forum and probably high end players. I personally don't miss SoloQ, but I agree that DynamicQ isn't even near being called the perfect solution, but for context, I asked all my local friends (Silver ranking, play both ranked and normal games, which is most likely the common player denominator) and 8 out of 9 prefer the new queue.

So yeah, I understand your gripes, but people screaming for SoloQ is a very loud minority, to be honest. That being said, I hope that a middle ground can be met soon, probably holding the new ranked system but limiting big time how premades can be played as to not fuck Solo players over.

Lestat S461 votes

People almost never come to the boards to say how much they like anything, They come to complain to Riot. Boards are full of DQ hate because thats what everyones butt hurt about right now. I like DQ, I play with my duo and thats all, Im not a 5 man pre-made boosted animal. I like DQ and I dont feel the ugre to do a "Daily Reminder that We Like DQ", Like those people who literally are doing daily threads complaing for SQ to come back.

Emerald Fang1 votes

I don't mind it either. But I posted this to point out the clear issues of DQ.

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