[{quoted}](name=bbQ s,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RdVy7Ab9,comment-id=0006000100000000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-12T01:19:14.046+0000)
v4.20
Enchantment - Warrior is added.
RECIPE: Brutalizer + any upgraded Hunter's Machete + 163 gold
TOTAL COST: 2250 gold
ATTACK DAMAGE: 45
COOLDOWN REDUCTION: 10%
ARMOR PENETRATION: 10
If you say that warrior has CDR now implies that it didn't have it before. Which is false, but whatever.
Point taken, congrats.
Precision wasn't buffed, it increased the amount of lethality it gives, but it takes a while before the lethality can outmatch the old armor pen. It's a buff for the late game, a nerf for the early game. Guess if lee benefited from the change or not.
Penetration is mostly power neutral to be honest.
The fact that nidalee was nerfed doesn't imply lee benefited from it. It actually means nothing and it's pure speculation. The gragas nerfs allowed lee back in the meta, when before lee sin was considered "the poor men gragas", since gragas could do everything lee did but better and easier. This doesn't mean lee was indirectly buffed, it means he found a place in the meta.
Nidalee had an incredibly powerful lvl 2 invade that Lee sin suffered from much more than Gragas did because of base stats. Lee has a ton of damage but isn't innately tanky in the sightest where as Gragas has % damage reduction in addition to mobility that isn't conditional on top of better base health.
Khazix and vayne yes, they're countered by lee sin E, but they were countered by him even before the assassin update, not sure why would be a buff if he could do what he does now even before?
It's almost like Kha and Vayne were fucking buffed with the itemization and stealth changes.
It's almost like COUNTERING META CHAMPIONS MAKES YOU STRONGER.
Rengar and twitch don't become invisible, they camouflage which means they're revealed by whoever is near them, not necessarily lee sin.
Yes, they're camo. But because they're revealed in short range anyway, pinks don't really matter much to them. Lee has two ways to reliably detect and kill them.
Lee was already able to sustain well in the jungle even before the W buffs, i never had any sustain problem and always came out full health out of my first clear.
Alright, you're on drugs. Jungle used to kick Lee's ass by comparison, then they changed the jungle a little and buffed his W. Part of the reason he was so weak is that his health pool was low and that jungle beat the shit out of him.
Why would you build edge of night on lee? It's a bad item that doesn't provide immediate power but scales in the late game instead, which isn't ideal for lee.
I said situationally, yeah? It's MR but also provides damage. Maw does this too which is why it's the go to, but EON doesn't overload you on CDR. Probably not ideal, but you get the idea.
Just because he's popular doesn't mean he's imbalanced at 49.71% winrate, hell, he's reaches 53.47% winrate at 125+ games played, does this look imbalanced to you?
Alright. I am going to say this ONCE more. ONCE. Then I am going to stop replying because you obviously are not fucking getting it.
A champion like Lee is mechanically difficult and is an early game champion. He is faceroll early but falls off hard unless you're extremely good at getting picks with his kick.
New players pick him up because he's Lee.
New players win quite often with a champion that has a very high skillcap and is supposed to be difficult to play. Is it bad that mechanically difficult champions have positive winrates? Not necessarily. But when Lee was balanced his winrate was about 46-48% except on people who mained him, they had much higher winrates. These new players are finding success with a champion that's supposed to be extremely hard to play.
The reason that this is a bad thing is that it's usually a sign that the champion is overtuned because if new players can accomplish a positive winrate with Lee by just existing and fucking up everything, then really good Lee players are going to be extremely difficult to handle.
Just because he's mechanically challenging doesn't mean he needs to be balanced at a low winrate, again, look at 
both considered hard champions, yet they have both positive and better winrates than lee sin.
Yes, he might be slightly overtuned, but he's not overpowered and he doesn't need gutting like the PBE ult nerf, he was fine before the W buffs, now that he's popular because of worlds, everyone started to complain like he's the most broken shit lmfao.. And only because he's popular and they don't like him.. Like, there's a bunch of really broken champions out there and they chose to complain about lee sin, probably the champion with the worst scaling in the game and average winrates.
Look, he's overtuned, plain and simple. Do I think he needs to get gutted? Not really. We agree there. I think the reason Lee is so strong is because of the smite changes to the sustain and the krug cheese. Now the cheese is pretty much gone so his winrate is settling down, but it's still really high for Lee. He has ridiculous early game damage and is very hard to punish for mistakes. I'm okay with him having extreme early game pressure if that's his niche. But we should make it so that unless he invests in more risky builds that he's not going to have the same success trying to nuke someone.
The nerf to his ultimate damage has been a long time coming. It's a very powerful took for ganks, there's no reason it should absolutely nuke the shit out of you with base damage alone on top of scaling with 2.0 of your bonus ad. That's just absurd.
Lower the base damage by a bit, make it scale with total ad at a more reasonable ratio, and shift power towards him knocking up enemies.
?
? They're considered both garbage tier right now, so i don't know what you're talking about. The only one that come to my mind is 
, so i'll give you that, but for the rest it's just baseless speculation.
4 this mattler
one trick.
