Does anyone else feel like AD Nidalee top is oppressive?

darkdill··14 votes·1,773 views

I've noticed in the past little while that Nidalee's, when played as an AD top lane fighter, are extremely difficult to deal with. If she marks you at level 3 (or higher), she can Pounce, Swipe, Pounce again, and then Takedown to take off about half your health or more with ease unless you're Garen. Even as Renekton, I have trouble against her. And if you damage her, she'll just heal back up and keep up the pressure. And no, dodging all of her spears is not realistic; sometimes she'll try to fire one at point-blank range just to mark you, and can't miss then.

Add in that ganking a Nidalee is harder than normal due to her traps acting as quasi-wards, as well as her natural elusiveness, and I think she's in need of a re-scaling in the early game, when buying a Null-Magic Mantle first is not viable.

I doubt Nidalee mains will agree, though.

36 Comments

Sire Hippington4 votes

while i definitly think nida needs some more work to be in a good spot, i don't really think ad-nid is that much of a deal, she falls of pretty hard later on if she can't splitpush 24/7, and she can be counterpicked rather easy, jusst that most of her counters are not in the current topmeta and so noone wastes a thought on them. I destroyed every nida a faced with xin so far, and J4 also worked extremly well, and so did Wukong. Every champ with a good gapcloser and strong lvl 1-3 all in works pretty well vs Nida, as she's extremly squishy. Xin, J4 and Wu also all scale better into lategame teamfights and probably beat her 1v1 through the entire game. I can also imagen that fiora, jayce or fizz work well against her in top, and i've seen serveral tryndas destroy nida top

if u pick a imobile melee vs a ranged harras monster u sure loos lane, same if u pick a champ that needs to scale up till becoming effecktive vs a champ that has an extremly strong early all in. But if u can presure her pre lvl 3, she a nice little pussycat meaning no harm to anyone

p.s. don't go tanky on any of the named champs, atleast not for the first 1.5items, u want to burst nidalee, otherwise she eventually outsustains u with her heal and probably lifesteal

Eapenator1 votes

Everything this guy says is true. Her counters are just not played enough. That being said, some damage nerfs would be good for her. The only reason she is picked is because compared to all the other strong level 1 - 3 characters, she is the only one with alot of built in mobility. If they make changes to bring these champions back, she may be in a good spot.

Onegarion1 votes

Honestly my biggest problem with top ad nid is the fact that after you get marked she can pounce from what seems out of no where. I'm perfectly fine with the increased movement speed, but when she can pounce and cancel out my flash distance or jump from near the edge of my line of sight and be in my face after 1 pounce I find a huge problem with that. When I look at it I think that once she marks you that she essentially has an akali ult but lets you do it in the direction and not onto the target itself so you can close the gap easier as a whole. Then she can just jump out again for free without really taking much damage.

She has a lot of burst and strong early game, but really i'm ok with that. I'm ok with her pounce being on a relatively short CD, but its that marked pounce distance that just irritates me the most. There is no getting away from her if she marks you unless you have a a strong cc AND a gap closer to get away.

SO honestly my problem is just the huge distance her pounce gets when you are marked. The other factors are there for other champs and the ad way is honestly the best way right now imo. I think if they would make her pounce the same distance regardless of target being marked. She should screw up melee fighters as a sustain ranged champ. I mean thats just the facts of League. But being able to also keep up easy is a problem for anyone since most champs already have a problem running from pounce alone.

HvcmQ28Zlg3 votes

Why does everyone act like AD Nidalee is new? She was one of season's 2 top tier top laners even in worlds. Yes her kit has changed some. but the mechanics are still the same. Yes she gets her cougar form at lvl 1 now, and in season 2 it was lvl 6, but remember.. Season 2 her cougar form gave her bonus Armor/MR stats as well. Yes she has more damage with her take down, but that's only if you are hit by a skill shot to begin with. Her spears have a much smaller hitbox now. The problem is people are only thinking about champs in the current meta, or FoTM top laners to play against her, when in fact a lot of the champs used in season 2 to counter her still do apply. Jayce works just as well with the ranged poke, and if you do take a spear u can knock her back when she pounces in. In fact with her W in cougar form being on a longer cooldown it would be pretty easy for chase to take her down. Irelia if played right does well. Ive seen a few alistars hold their own.. Hell I pretty sure if u play it right u could do well as aatrox to.

MarhsallLee673 votes

I recently played a game as Shyvana vs Nidalee top lane and was subsequently reqt. It's pretty unusual how she does significant damage to even the tankiest of champions.

Eagleheart2 votes

The better question to ask is "Why is everyone building AD nidalee when most of her kit is AP?"

Willahelm Fulber1 votes

All of her kit deals magic damage, but recently they buffed her Melee form q (Takedown) so that it does (pardon me Phreak) tons of damage. It scales 100% off of physical damage - and more, if the opponent has any sort of hp missing, and it does 33% MORE if target is marked.

amwagner1 votes

Doesn't her heal still give attack speed too? Nice personal buff.

Sunfield2 votes

Lane phase and splitpushing is all she is good with. Pick someone tanky who scales well, play safe and you should be good

L7xLoTek2 votes

Well, I only have one match to draw from, but Maokai seemed to work nicely. Play safe early, and once you get item 3027 going you'll be the dominant force. I'm guessing Gragas would largely be the same way. The burst she has is kinda nuts though.

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

maokai is op atm annd will probably get a perma ban soon there is not champion that can simply solo maokai because when both start casting maokai will heal for infinity

darkdill1 votes

Honestly, that's an easy fix: Reduce Maokai's passive healing at early levels. Something like 5/6/7% at levels 1-6, 7-12, 13+ respectively.

There, his sustain is cut down significantly.

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

rqahter the amount of charges he needs from 10 to 4

darkdill1 votes

You mean 5 to 10? Too much, it'd ruin his jungling.

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

riot failed reworks are failed mao jungle was trashed while mao top became the strongest thing in the entire game (hit me so ill heal even more ) well maybe not the strongest but i always cry to ban him in yolo que

Knight SoIaire 2 votes

she does not need a re-scaling she needs a nerf or another rework

MrBuffington2 votes

To be fair, according to champselect, Nidalee soft-counters Renekton and Garen. AD Nid naturally has a strong laning phase top lane, since she's a ranged champion vs. mostly melee champions, that much is natural. Later in the game she transitions into a split pusher; she doesn't have too much team-fight presence without the nuclear tipped spears, and that she has no CC to speak of, very little AoE (two cougar abilities, which, since she's building AD, don't deal too much damage), and very circumstantial assassination/burst potential (unless she's super ahead, it usually will take at least two cougar rotations to kill a squishy, which I think is comparable to something like a Renekton).

Also, Nidalee is a form-change champion; they're naturally incredibly strong at lvl 3 since they have access to 6 spells at that point (to compensate they don't get as much of a power spike at lvl 6 because they lack a true ultimate). Additionally, Nidalee is incredibly squishy through lane phase up until after she builds TriForce and starts building more like a tank. Even then, she's never really a true tank; there's nothing in her kit to compliment a tanky playstyle, she just has to build this way so she doesn't get blown up instantly when she goes into cougar form. Additionally, she's also very mana hungry, so while she can sustain health in lane pretty well, it does put a huge drain on her resources, especially if she isn't building AP to improve her heal, or building mana/CDR so that she can heal more often (the only mana she typically builds is from Trinity Force, which is maybe one and a half heals at lvl 9, if she's maxing E). It's a huge drain on her resources too, since she's not only using the heal to sustain herself, but also for the AS boost to trade better.

Again, ranged champions naturally have an advantage over most melee champions in the top lane; this is another reason why Teemo is so obnoxious to deal with in top lane, why he's often picked to counter relatively immobile champions like Garen or Nasus. The counter, therefore, is to pick a champion that either has a reliable gap closer and better melee capability, such as a Fiora or Jax, or who has range to counter Nidalee's mostly auto-attack harass, like Gragas or Lulu.

For the record, I mained AP Midalee for a long time, and yes, I do think she could use some balance changes for her in top lane, specifically the reset on her pounce is a bit excessive; I think that Riot largely added this change for AP Midalee, since she is super squishy without tank items. I don't know if Riot will be looking to balance her as a top laner after changes have sort of forced her out of mid lane; if they do decide to keep her top lane, they'll probably change up her pounce as it gives a ton of safety as it is; basically Kassadin ult you can have at lvl 1 and costs no mana (albeit deals less damage).

Arby0991 votes

Any advice laning against her welcome, I've been torn apart by her a bunch.

darkdill1 votes

Afraid I don't have any good advice besides rushing a Specter's Cowl. Only Champion I know who hard-counters her top-lane is Garen. Use Courage to block her burst dive, then punish her with your silence and spin.

CmereCupcake1 votes

AD nid... rush mres?

darkdill2 votes

Her abilities all deal magic damage even if she built AD.

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

but she will use her autos a lot and if you pick a tanky cchamp she will start with botrk what her kit cant do she makes up for with items

EMOFRATPARTY1 votes

Nasus.

Start tanky, try to dodge her spear, and you should be able to push well. If you get a solid gank or two it's likely that you'll be winning lane in a relatively short amount of time.

MaknBacnPancakes1 votes

She has been a rarity in my top games of late... Rarity anywhere (except sucking on my team of course) actually..

It is twofold in my opinion:

I find she is easier to fight the closer wave is pushed to her turret.. Many will get arrogant due to heal and spear and stay around longer then they should allowing you to net a kill..

Fighting under your turret she is VERY dangerous.. You run risk of eating cat form when you try to farm with low health You run the risk of eating a spear if retreating or trying to play safe (especially due to spear chucks mechanics- being able to fly past max range, and being rewarded with power if doing so).

Overall she is just a PITA.. But that is her niche.. If not ahead and fed she becomes more a liability than anything, I guess it balances out 😃

darkdill1 votes

Problem with that logic is that you have to get ahead before she hits level 3, or she opens up her full combo. Then any Javelin that hits you is going to result in you taking massive burst.

Not a very forgiving window of opportunity.

MaknBacnPancakes1 votes

You also have to take into consideration who you are using though..

redniwediS1 votes

My only advice is to get good with a champion with a high amount of sustain early game. Trundle is my personal pick against her.

MaknBacnPancakes1 votes

Trundle.. Good god.. Not to derail from Nid.. But does he struggle against any melee tops?

MrSc0tty2 votes

Someone like a good Wukong probably. Use E to juke trundles Q and you win rate hard

redniwediS1 votes

Jax too. Really anyone who can disengage when it's not a favorable fight. Just run Trundle out of mana early and build a lead, and he won't be an issue.

This does mean Nidalee is on that list, but while she can handle him in lane she doesn't have kill potential on him like Wukong or Jax would.

I Main Swain1 votes

hes actually not as hard to deal with as you might think.

amwagner1 votes

Ahri solves all problems

Tanryoku1 votes

So far the only champ I've hard any trouble playing against at top when I play nidalee is Fiora and it depends on who's playing her. But that's for AP nidalee not AD. I think she still needs some balancing. She's very powerful but she does have a lot of weak points as well.

I Main Swain1 votes

I do agree about her pounce. its not that hard to mark someone, and if you do, they either die or take a lot of damage most of the time. I feel like the extra range is way too much, its kind of ridiculous. on top of that, if she marks you once and its a longer chase, she will probably be able to q you from point blank range and keep it up. that's really my only quarrel with her.

SilverDrake1 votes

Yeah she is pretty broken in a 1v1 right now and her pounce cool down has yet to be nerfed. It makes it so that if she makes a mistake she has an out but if you make a mistake you die.

SUBMIT OBEY1 votes

I suggest a auto attack nerf and also a pounce cooldown reduction to promote better counter play. I just got done fighting her as Trundle and had the hardest and most frustrating matchup ever. I was ahead in ever respect and literally couldn't do anything in 1v1 situations.

More from Gameplay

More by darkdill