Sion's Scaling and Passive

Silent Reaper·Jun 12, 2016·9 votes·1,881 views

He's big, he's unignorable (usually) and when you land a triple Ult + Q it feels euphoric.

His whole kit screams tank but in fights he becomes ignorable from low damage and unreliable CC [zombie-nunu-bummed]

I propose a scaling solution. Make Sion's abilities scale off Health for damage.** (No OP scaling though)**

It would encourage building tank and make people feel good about going tank build

And Ghost..... Please let us use Ghost during Sion passive. He gets kited so easily in team fights, it's not fun at all.

27 Comments

TheHowesterJun 12, 20164 votes

I honestly think Sion should be the "ideal" fighter/tank.

He should have everything a tanky fighter likes:Good damage, very tanky, good CC, Lots of Aoe, and mixed damages. he should lack reliability: all of his abilities have conditions, and lack of mobility.

I mean, it isnt exactly high risk/high reward when you land a full charged q and there's barely any damage on the targets;His abilities should be feared throughout the game.

Silent ReaperJun 12, 20162 votes

That's exactly how I feel about him. I feel like he doesn't get rewarded as much as he ought to for charging up his Q or getting his shield off.

Silent ReaperJun 12, 20162 votes

I don't think Riot "appreciates" how his lack of Mobility should give him better damage/survivability/CC

TheHowesterJun 12, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Silent Reaper,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ROZusHWZ,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-06-12T05:31:53.714+0000)

That's exactly how I feel about him. I feel like he doesn't get rewarded as much as he ought to for charging up his Q or getting his shield off.

Like I'm not too sure of max hp scalings on all of his abilities( except maybe his e and passive), but he should have ridiculous ad/ap scalings to compensate for his unreliability to land spells.

Silent ReaperJun 13, 20161 votes

The only spell with ridiculous ratios is his Q. It also a good way to "gate" him so that he focuses more on spamming his strong spells at people instead of hitting them with auto attacks. Tanks shouldn't spam auto attacks...unless it's sion passive ;)

TheHowesterJun 13, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Silent Reaper,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ROZusHWZ,comment-id=0001000000010000,timestamp=2016-06-13T15:57:32.027+0000)

The only spell with ridiculous ratios is his Q. It also a good way to "gate" him so that he focuses more on spamming his strong spells at people instead of hitting them with auto attacks. Tanks shouldn't spam auto attacks...unless it's sion passive ;)

I never said he should be auto attacky... though I wish he did have a passive cleave that deals damage scaling from max hp and total AD every 20 seconds.

RalanrJun 12, 20162 votes

I honestly feel like he is slower in his passive. So many people just outrun me without any dashes or speed increases.

Now beyond his W, having the rest of his abilities scale with health would be interesting. But it could lead to Mundo levels of unhealthy damage when he reaches high amounts of health. And having Mundo level damage on Sion should come with a heavy cost of at all.

Silent ReaperJun 12, 20162 votes

He actually DOES move slower in his passive form, they say it in the champion spotlight :P That's why a lot of people build Black Cleaver on him

Mundo gets a free Sunfire + 100 AD on his autos so it is absurd....but Sion is more of a "huge damage effects with delays" so there is some healthy counter-play involved. You can dodge his Q or try to move out of his shield blast

RalanrJun 12, 20161 votes

Wait, he does? But BC isn't that great on him (Frozen Mallet works better) since he doesn't AA much and will fill out his CDR with IBG, visage, and warmogs.

Silent ReaperJun 12, 20161 votes

BC is mostly used for passive, and gives nice CDR. Also if you are maxing Q first, going triple Long Swords is BRUTAL.

I myself go BC + Frozen Gauntlet to get max CDR.

Silent ReaperJun 12, 20161 votes

Also...why does Roar of the Slayer exist? Why does Sion "want" a Ranged Ability?

RalanrJun 12, 20162 votes

Because having something to deal with ranged opponents or to harass people who outstat you is golden.

Silent ReaperJun 12, 20162 votes

I don't think Sion should be good vs. Ranged, but I think he should EXCEL at melee fights.

Sure he can get zoned from ranged champions, but if you let him get into melee range, he WILL destroy you.

I think he is meant to be a character that feels god-mode....in melee vs melee match ups. (Even his ultimate facilitates that feeling)

ZT XperimentorJun 13, 20161 votes

To bad there's several other melee champions that just flat out counter him; fiora, fizz, udyr, garen, yasou, ekko, ext.

TwinkieProJun 12, 20161 votes

I don't know, I don't want another volibear building straight tank, smacking me 3 times, then biting me for nearly 800 damage. No thank you, he needs help, but I do not agree with the direction.

Silent ReaperJun 12, 20162 votes

Volibear has built in speed and damage. The point of SIon is to have NO speed, AND unreliable damage.

His skills are suppose to be "dodge able" to some degree but feel more impactful if you land them.

DaneQueedJun 12, 20161 votes

I think if he gets some love, he should get a small bump in health/lvl or base health. That way when you do build a damage item you dont feel so damn squishy (or at least I do when I go anything except a health item first).

I'm probably wrong but I think he's a good baseline of how tanks should really perform. He's got the cc and it has obvious counterplay. If you build damage you're making sacrifices and if you build really tanky your shield is the only thing thats going to be really chunking anyone aside from the Q max early which can do glorious amounts of damage.

I think other tanks with CC are still just a little overtuned in comparison (poppy/mao etc) they seem really tanky all game and have good enough cc. Sion needs the shield detonate/Q if you hope to actually chunk adc's out of fights if you're full tank and arent busy getting kited for 20 years.

I'm rambling but sion is my main man too and I'd just like to see him in a slightly better spot.

Silent ReaperJun 13, 20162 votes

From what I've seen there are 3 skill paths. Rush Steraks Gage and max Q (vs tanks) Rush Sunfire and max W. (Vs ad bruisers) Rush doran + sprite visage and max E. (Vs Ap)

If they just made his spells stronger he would be a bit less ignorable in fights....

KeìronJun 12, 20161 votes

Sion has WAY TOO MUCH damage, and i have rank 6 with him.

NazZomLordJun 13, 20161 votes

Lvl 7 Sion here...and i say... BAHAHAHAHAHAHA. ARE YOU KIDDING ME. Ill go full tank and 3v1 under their tower and win. I will destroy anything in my path. He has some very good damage. Throw a item 3748 item 3078 item 3053 And their will be no survivors.

SasogwaJun 13, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Lvl 7 Sion here...and i say... BAHAHAHAHAHAHA. ARE YOU KIDDING ME. Ill go full tank and 3v1 under their tower and win. I will destroy anything in my path. He has some very good damage. Throw a And their will be no survivors.

I really don't know how to say you're doing pretty well cause your opponents in bronze 5 are bad without being a jerk by saying it.

The 3 items you quoted aren't very tanky compared to resists+ HP items.

NazZomLordJun 13, 20161 votes

Thats why its more of a fighter approach than a pure tank approach, still can have some decent tank with the infinite scaling HP and a IBG Thorn or whatever else you will need. Full tank is still quite better.

SasogwaJun 13, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Thats why its more of a fighter approach than a pure tank approach, still can have some decent tank with the infinite scaling HP and a IBG Thorn or whatever else you will need. Full tank is still quite better.

Well I've seen some Sions do fairly well with like item 3068 item 3512

Though I believe CDR is really good for being a peel tank, but item 3110 seems kinda weak atm.

Silent ReaperJun 13, 20161 votes

I've tried that build too. It's great as a tank, but it feels terrible to play as since you have no CD-R and no dmg

Silent ReaperJun 13, 20161 votes

I'm lvl 7 sion too...and I play him at Diamond 3 lol. His spells tell him to build tank + CD-R, his 2 passive tells him to build Tank + Ad

DeathBurstJun 13, 20161 votes

No, his passive simply tells him to die first and wreck the carries, and if the Tank dies first, that's already a victory. It's a lose-lose situation for the enemies: they focus you, it's bad and your zombie wrecks them, or they ignore you and you CC them freely.

You have a %HP on-hit in zombie mode, you don't need AD. With Iceborn and Sunfire on top of it, that's plenty enough damage for a Tank. The role of the Tank is not to deal damage anyway.

ZT XperimentorJun 13, 20161 votes

His passive is best early game as the health drain is low due to his small base HP. Late game his passive is next to useless because it drains so much of his stacked health. Shouldn't this be the other way around? It's like syndra's passive, rather useless in most cases and unnoticeable.