I love League, I played it for 10 years. But you make me want to quit.

Silent Reaper·8/3/2019, 6:07:48 PM·105 votes·17,529 views

The mobility creep was bad enough, but the damage creep in this game has gotten so bad that "Tanks" are now squishier than what ADC's used to be before Season 1.

I main support, I LOVE playing utility. When I play League's I think about roles consisting of Tanks, Dps, Supports and hybrids.

I enjoy the novelty of how each champion has specific strengths but we've gotten damage so overturned that utility and tankyness have become effectively useless since people die before those 2 stats become relevant.

I'm taking a break from League, but I really hope this damage meta goes away someday. (Also thank you for the coin flip games, I hate them.) [sg-soraka]

53 Comments

Tuition Fee8/3/2019, 8:17:17 PM27 votes

Playing a tank in S9 means either it takes an extra 0.5s for the enemy to kill you or you're so damn fed you can just two shot the ADC DrMundo

2weeled3ricicle8/3/2019, 10:42:29 PM13 votes

honestly i think the rune system is to blame for a lot of this, just makes game hard to balance for no reason :/

Spacesuit Spiff8/4/2019, 1:19:09 AM12 votes

Yep. Tanks either aren't playable, or are able to kill people in the moments it takes them to die. This is never getting better, what with Riot's design philosophy of catering to manic children who just want to blow everything up.

Mr Tyson8/3/2019, 6:32:04 PM12 votes

Tanks need to play respectful now. I remember playing Maokai in S4 and surviving for 10 seconds in a 1v5. You are right, tanks can pop. You need to think more about how you do your job.

It was a similar issue I had last year with Akali mains complaining about their champion being nerfed, specifically Q healing. They said it was a bad change because Akali couldn't trade. She is a melee assassin, that had the ability to evenly trade with mages, while also being able to assassinate. The simple thing is assassins don't trade, and players should stop doing that and play her like an assassin. After those changes, players are now playing the champ properly and she is quite strong without her q heal.

If you think tanks are weak, watch supports with no items proc aftershock - literally undamagable for 3 seconds. Use the windows that exist. Just as tanks should be able to tank, others should have counter opportunities to kill tanks if they misplay.

Laçez8/3/2019, 8:31:41 PM8 votes

I got flipping one shot by a full tank Rammus that wasn't even fed with aftershock & I was Vel'koz, so the damage of being an ADC that's reflected by Rammus wasn't even a factor. If I'm getting one shot by TANKS, then somethihg is wrong, their job should be to provide support through utility & to tank damage but instead they're one shotting whilst being amongst 5 opponents. I was left speachless... I hate tanks.

Darkstar Annie8/3/2019, 11:01:58 PM6 votes

I'm having the opposite problem as Annie where I'm seeing tanks build nothing but defense items and not only out sustain, but outdamage glass cannon dedicated DPS. It's really frustrating as a burst mage to come across 3 tanks that can just absorb all of your burst and laugh at you while they burst you right back. Doesn't matter if you build Void Staff or Liandries Spirit Visage and Maw will make them invincible to you.

Spooky Skeleton8/4/2019, 2:47:57 PM3 votes

This imo is made even worse by their horrific matchmaking. I love queueing up for a normal as a gold pleb and getting a grandmaster assassin main against me, running around the map oneshotting everyone. But atleast the rest of his team was low diamond playing assasins i guess, could be worse.

HungryAngry2SPP8/3/2019, 9:41:21 PM3 votes

Pretty sure you just got bored after playing 10 years.

I played WoT/LoL each for about 2-4years and got simply bored of both. Not like I never play them, it's just I don't feel that same...feel, you know

Edit: Wow, once again downvoted for no reason.

Vah Medoh8/4/2019, 12:20:11 AM3 votes

Damage won't be tunned down. If not, Korean players will not play as much on their cybers. And Riot wants them to play as more games as possible.

FUEMO8/4/2019, 9:17:53 AM3 votes

Ya you should quit this game and system is aids. They love banning people who defend themselves. It's a money making scheme.

TrikzterzArma8/4/2019, 9:39:00 AM3 votes

It won't ever turn down. They keep buffing the damage over and over

rtbf2476264238/4/2019, 12:52:20 PM3 votes

this game is SHIT now, season 5 back it used to be fun and about having fun, but now its just like disney's shit. It's made to milk money from you and no one cares if you're happy just that you're there.

hhaavviikk8/4/2019, 5:20:46 PM3 votes

you know what I like? shield supports, you know what riot hates? shield supports, fuck me and my shielding life

Wyrmblade8/4/2019, 5:59:41 PM3 votes

The tank item rework really messed everything up. What's even the point when you can't get enough stats to spam laugh under enemy turrets in the middle of their team?

TobiasyThA8/4/2019, 11:37:07 PM3 votes

Riot's pathetic policy to encourage the biggest victims, crybabies, little perverts, is what is killing the game. They won't change their policy because that's who they are, they are terrified of reality, they want to believe "toxicity" and others "negavity" stupid ideas real... In a VIDEO GAME... Well it's their fault for ruining their own game. The owner will stay rich, the employees will lose their job.

DarkSoul19948/5/2019, 12:11:57 AM2 votes

Same. Been playing since 2012 and haven't touched actual LoL in probably close to 2 months (I still play the occasional TFT/ARAM/Coop vs. AI).

I own every skin in the game and that investment still isn't enough to keep me playing.

I feel much better focusing on my study and BJJ+Gym training.

JRobin318/4/2019, 6:25:13 PM2 votes

i watched part of a pro-game (haven't been watching many pro-games). I saw some champions being killed and I had to double check that I wasn't playing the game at double speed because they died so fast. Yup, normal speed. Ouch! It's one thing for LeBlanc to delete a squishy from the map, but this damage META is clearly gratuitous. So... yeah, didn't finish watching the game. So I've watched like half of one pro-game in the past month because the META has been that uninteresting to watch.

Zullar8/5/2019, 7:01:31 PM1 votes

The mobility creep and damage creep is out of control. But Riot does not seem to notice? Every patch makes this game worse. Every new champ and every rework makes this game worse.

Vonyalo8/5/2019, 7:50:51 PM1 votes

Then quit. This game is not going to change, it can't change. Find another game.

ΛrπζrιΠ8/5/2019, 12:08:58 AM1 votes

A resolve tank would outsustain and do more damage than a damage dedicated squishy assassin. Its not street fighter where tanks invest their healthbar into one slow damaging move followed by 50/50 okizeme-> KO Tanks had to be nerfed damagewise.

Illabethe8/4/2019, 1:23:33 PM1 votes

Try playing Ornn. You'll discover tanking still has relevance after he hits 13. The problem is most tanks aren't actually building tank early; Junglers are building HP. Supports are building HP. Only top is actially starting with some form of defense in their build, and even then, many start HP, and work it into armor/resist.

When you start HP, you're basically a bigger squishy. And once itemization begins, that doesn't mean much.

To Be clear: Damage isn't really much bigger. Penetration really isn't much bigger. Itemization has been directed to HP, and back to Critting, and gold incomes for laning damage carries has increased per minute, so tanks aren't building fast enough to keep up.

But Ornn..... Ornn at 13 gets a HUGE defensive boost, and generally can turn a game on its head just by hitting the level. I had a game recently where I made the mistake to not start in lane and instead cover an invade. I got shut out of lane entirely. like 23 CS vs 92 CS shut out. I started clearing jungle, but was in no way monetized to gear. I hit 13 and had 1 1/2 upgradeables and by level 15 I had turned the game around, and somehow ended with #2 gold in game and #2 in damage, and could just face tank the team that was until then beating me.

Just putting it out there; defense is still relevant.

I still use thornmail on jungle Morgana, btw. Tanky as hell.

we havent met8/4/2019, 3:50:27 PM1 votes

Honestly meta shift is something that happens regardless, its always consistently moved from tank meta to assassin meta to enchanter meta and so on and so forth. My issue is matchmaking. its just dogshit bad and riot wont address it or rather doesnt want to because its already "so deep in the season" they wanna wait until next season to fix it. Except they have been doing this exact same thing for like 4 fucking seasons, its stale as fuck. They dont care about what we think or whats best for the game and its been increasingly obvious.

Wordse8/4/2019, 5:37:57 PM1 votes

I've been arguing with a friend of mine about the glut of offensive options in the game and why Defense is not a real option which boils down to if defense was too great the individual games would not move forward reaching a stalemate of tanks being actually unkillable which I think is a little hyperbolic but not entirely wrong is there really a way to make tanks happy and damage dealers happy?

Baltharaaz8/5/2019, 3:34:41 PM1 votes

Well, the issue here is, ironically, one I've seen, though in a different fashion, in For Honor (for those that don't know, it's a sort of medieval-esque fighting game in a 3D plane) of all places.

There is no feasible reason to go on the offense or promote offense when a defense is incredibly strong. That game devolved to turtle wars years ago because throwing any attack and getting it parried would result in a crushing punish, and the best defensive characters with the best punishes were just the best characters. All of the possible offenses were reactable and easily countered. And now, the developers are moving towards an offensive game. They've made openers and other attacks incredibly fast and quick, or they go into an insanely difficult mix-up game that force a response. Any other offensive character that lacks these or has weak versions of these is not viable, period. And people are complaining that the offense for some characters is either too much or too garbage. The more defensively designed characters legit have too good of defensive options and are therefore frustrating, or too garbage of ones and unplayable.

In League, when defense and tanks become good, it is often because they possess the offensive capabilities in tandem with their defensive power to simply survive and kill people in a decent pace during their lives. Or, their defense becomes so incredibly powerful that their mediocre or garbage offensive becomes enough to kill the opponent anyway. And tanks also have the issue where, if they're designed to be defensive walls with almost no offense, they have no solitary agency, which means they basically have to stall until their allies arrive. All of these feel incredibly awful in some fashion gameplay wise. So Riot moves away from survival and towards damage, making damage so high that everything dies. Which makes what they're doing with Galio incredibly frustrating, since they're apparently pushing him as a tank with even less agency than other tanks, what with his ridiculously long cooldowns, mediocre damage, and a passive that cannot be utilized in its current state in this game climate.

I ultimately blame Aftershock and the Resolve tree for a lot of the tank woes, because it inflates their tankiness across the board and therefore causes them to receive scrutiny and nerfs, before the true problem (Aftershock) is nerfed and the champions are left woefully terrible (what I call the Riot Special). The other runes cause this problem on the damage/healing side of things, where the baseline power of a champion is inflated and needs to be considered in tandem with runes for every change. Those that cannot use the runes well end up the losers. Others are unbalanceable because they use the rune system too well

But what ultimately happens is that whatever meta arrives, a group ends up feeling powerless. In tank meta, it's basically everyone but tanks. Whenever it's damage heavy, it's only tanks. Others can die instantly, yes, but they also can kill people. And if they have survival tools, they end up being just enough to prolong their lives to kill an enemy. In shielding/healing strong times, burst mages and assassins feel miserable. Poke suffers as well due to the power to mitigate the damage.

Many people cite inflated, easily accessible CDR as an issue damage wise, but that's only problematic due to the level of damage. If damage was lower, having this much CDR isn't nearly as bad; in fact, it can be interesting, because it forces many won exchanges in a shorter period of time. CDR in this scenario becomes problematic when considering utility, because the utility - whether that be stuns, blinks, dashes, etc. - then must be designed to not be overbearing if it is frequently available. It can also be an issue for burst characters and their itemization, because they now must pick up CDR since their damage might often be inadequate to accomplish their job.

If League could every reach a phase where every class has at least some agency, that would be awesome. But I'm not holding my breath for any progress on that front.

houkikker8/4/2019, 5:52:40 PM1 votes

Don't take that break you'll regret it! I've been playing just about as long and I took most of 2018 and up until about 2 weeks ago off and I come back to Riot revamping a lot of champions; that really they should have just let be. They are not fun to play anymore. Nunu being the biggest disappointment in the revamps I've seen with Kyle being a close second. From what I'm seeing based on reading forum post is Riot no longer cares about it's base community and is only catering to it's pro teams and sponsors.