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The tank to damage ratio on specific champions is fucking ridiculous...

Ben Sharpio··78 votes·7,549 views

Short story: We were getting stomped in the beginning of the game, and long story short, we came back near the end-game and we were able to win 2 consecutive teamfights to give us a small lead. But, the one thing that makes these situations even more ridiculous and hard to recover from, is that the bullshit tank to damage ratio on champions like Jax MasterYi Fiora XinZhao is beyond bullshit. My team played the end-game so damn well, but the amount of resources we have to use on a single god damn champion so that he doesnt 100-0 my adc while tanking every ability thrown at him is unreasonable. A champion like Jax makes these situations even worse because of his overly toxic kit. Our lulu did everything she could, nautilus and i (sion) used all of the CC we could, but it's just not enough to stop these champions from winning every single teamifight. They output an insane amount of damage, while being unkillable. I just want to know, what are we supposed to do in this situations? They melt turrets, and everything in their paths and snowball the game and make it almost impossible to come back from. In that game, we were able to get to the last nexus turret before the final teamfight where jax just wiped everything. I need help with these situations. Our bans were pretty good too.

116 Comments

Bouncemaster Zac56 votes

You're supposed to lose, in those situations. I've been saying for a while; in League of Legends, skill doesn't win games. Picking the most broken Champions available does.

BetaDude401 votes

It truly is an unfortunate thing for the game when this is true. Kind of like just mashing the A button in a fighting game and still winning, it just saps out all the fun.

Mhihnj1 votes

what 'a' button?

EndlessSorcerer1 votes

In console fighting games, the basic attack button (IIRC it's A for Ninentdo, X for Playstation and 'X' for Xbox) corresponds to a quick jab attack which occurs quickly and which has a low cooldown.

Mhihnj1 votes

i thought you were talking about league

EndlessSorcerer2 votes
  1. I wasn't the one talking about it. That was BETADUDE40.
  2. They specifically said "in a fighting game", so it wasn't League of Legends they were referring to.
Dengeden10 votes

You keep telling yourself that, I'll keep playing K6 top, Zyra supp and any AP mid.

EndlessSorcerer21 votes

Ah, but then you're just playing into their trap.

If you beat somebody with a champion, then that champion is automatically "no-skill" "easy-mode" and "overpowered".

That's just how those people work.

Tridem11 votes

YOU ACTIVATED MY TRAP CARD!!!!

EndlessSorcerer4 votes

I use Mystical Space Typhoon!

SH Azykan11 votes

uses Solemn Judgement MST doesnt negate the card just destroys it. So I am sorry but you failed to stop his trap card loses half his Lifepoints

finalchance11 votes

uh, Magic Drain?

SH Azykan2 votes

Magic drain would be silly to use on his MST as it isn't accomplishing anything P: Mine was a pun on the card name Solemn Judgement (him using a card incorrectly) and its cost being half your lifepoints (no life joke because I knew that interaction)

WacingTheFind1 votes

SEVEN TOOLS OF BANDIT BITCH!

Blackstone013 votes

Lol, had an enemy Jax call me an OP 0 skill champion when I stomped him as Nasus. I rarely feel so filled with joy.

The Bearded Bard6 votes

I'd say Jax is the harder of those two champions.

A Miss Fortune1 votes

I was called out for playing a "no-skill" champion, Janna.

Though I was 10-0 as AD Bruiser Janna Jungle.

Lavaniel1 votes

THIS. SO TRUE.

I don't want to jump on the bandwagon, so now I'm literally just going to one-trick pony Ashe, hopefully just stay in low gold, and enjoy what's left of this game. It's dying as it seems.

Sahn Uzal13 votes

For some reason Rageblade Fizz also works... Fiora is just pure cancer.... (The only champion I'll ever give this much hate) Yi Xin and Jax are also really abonxious... As a tank player, I just hate the feel of not being able to even touch a champion before they blow my carries up... (I'm a GP/ Sion main who also played Nautilus top before it was good and loves Zac/ Maokai top...) -_- I love the Graves rework, but a (ranged) bruiser shouldn't have this much burst... summoner 31

Ñapoleoni2 votes

https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/4anndc/fizz_awesome_interaction_with_grasp_of_the/

And that is why Fizz is great with Rageblade

SH Azykan4 votes

item 3124 item 3068 item 3001 item 3742 item 3025 item 1331 the return of tank fizz is nigh upon us

Mhihnj3 votes

you know what would make Fiora even more broken?

Changing her name to:

Cancer, The grand cancer

kasfas9 votes

Have you ever seen the tank to damage ratio of your main in a good game? He can also get pretty rediculous. Had a game where I had 5k hp 325 armour and 205 mr and out damaged everyone in the game. To champions, I dealt the third most damage behind the 2 adcs.

This isn't to disagree with your statement, because I HATE jax and Fiora with a passion (not as much as vane in s5 but still) and am looking forward to seeing them get sejuani'd and their "mains" rage all over Reddit and seeing the complaint threads here.

The reason I bring up Sion isn't because he's op too, you of all people know that, but that being tanky and dealing damage isn't the problem. The problem is the inability to avoid ANY of their damage because it is all based on auto attacks which can't be missed unless your name is jax Fiora or kalista. Their damage is incredibly RELIABLE which is what makes them OP.

So @RITO, if you plan on keeping the damage level of these champions as high as it is, while allowing them to be tanky as a Darius, their damage CAN'T be at all reliable, like Sion.

Edit: On a separate note, withany of these champions jungling, you NEED to counterjungle. That is priority number 1. If you like nunu jungle or get a lee or pantheon, tell them to counterjungle instead of gank, it works out better in the long run. And if they 2 man your jungler, you just take a tower and slowly push that way.

Sahn Uzal4 votes

but that being tanky and dealing damage isn't the problem.

THANK YOU Honestly, I really agree with you, you can not avoid their damage really, Fiora is kind of an exeption here with the short range of her Q, she tends to get kited for just a little bit (but R MS kinda makes up for that) But she is capable of killing Tanks just as easy as she kills squishies, and her ''sustained damage'' usually kills your carries faster than a Syndra could.... I absolutely HATE Fiora, I instantly tilt whenever I see one... summoner 31

kasfas2 votes

The problem is its near impossible to stop her from getting her power spike because it happens while LEVELLING UP. You can't really deny xp from your lane opponent, which is why I'm glad their changing her passive from scaling balues to flat values.

I'm not kidding when I say I've beaten many good Fioras as Sion in lane, got their tower, and snowballed other lanes. But it always seems that 25+ minutes in she comes back and just ruins everything.

Ralanr5 votes

I'd argue that Fiora has to find vitals, but that's rarely a problem for most players.

DPS beats tank, but burst is meant to counter DPS. If DPS builds tanky to counter burst, then they become almost invincible.

Blue Moon Wolf8 votes

If Riot wants to fix this, they need to make building a Squishy melee fighter more attractive of an idea. Right now if melee champ goes in, there is a good chance they will be blown up if they build straight AD and since the juggernaut update, building a light fighter as a bruiser/juggernaut has not only become easier, but more effective. Riot needs to answer "What makes a squishy melee fighter a better option than a squishy marksmen". They both do the same thing in a team fight, but the marksmen fill that role at a safe distance while the light fighter has to get in close. With any luck, after the mage update riot will either cover diving fighters or assassins and might finally be able to answer that question.

Lajinn53 votes

[{quoted}](name=Blue Moon Wolf,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RO11EvcL,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-03-19T09:58:24.625+0000)

If Riot wants to fix this, they need to make building a Squishy melee fighter more attractive of an idea. Right now if melee champ goes in, there is a good chance they will be blown up if they build straight AD and since the juggernaut update, building a light fighter as a bruiser/juggernaut has not only become easier, but more effective. Riot needs to answer "What makes a squishy melee fighter a better option than a squishy marksmen". They both do the same thing in a team fight, but the marksmen fill that role at a safe distance while the light fighter has to get in close. With any luck, after the mage update riot will either cover diving fighters or assassins and might finally be able to answer that question.

The main issue is that there really isn't anything to make squishy melees better than squishy ranged characters, ideally ranged AD Carries would have ass for base stats, but as we've seen in this game that simply isn't the case, so they end up giving AD Fighters ridiculous stat steroids to try and differentiate them.

My Waifu Vanilla2 votes

Melee damage dealers are incredibly hard to balance in this game since they NEED a reason to be picked over a ranged counterpart. Whether it is MORE damage to counteract the fact they are melee (most Juggs/Xin Zhao/GP) or more mobility to help get to their target before getting blown up (Fiora/Yi/Yasuo) they need nothing. The problem with these solutions is most of them have very little trade off besides "they'really melee" and items like DMP or even Flash remove that "downside" from the equation altogether.

Honestly, I understand WHAT Riot tries to do with Melee Carries, but it has rarely worked out without them feeling oppressive if these melee carries DO get in range (as seen at Worlds).

Most melee carries are kind of fine design wise, just overtuned. Xin Zhao's "kit" makes the most sense to have an a melee carry, but his bases are slightly too high. He has 1 gap closer, sustain, and a HUGE defensive steroid on his ult which are all things a melee carry should have to balance out them being rather immobile and at a range loss. However, his damage bases are too high and has no REAL incentive to go damage when he can just keep all his tanky options and abuse high bases to carry him. Xin (unlike Fiora) could easily be fixed by lowering his bases (and AP ratios) and bumping AD ratios and perhaps throw a crit ratio in (since he gets free crit this would also make sense). The lowering of bases drops his effectiveness in tank builds and lowering AP Ratio makes Rageblade less good. Perhaps buffing his Ult to make it more rewarding (giving it %DR per target or a giant shield) would also make squishier builds better.

Spacesuit Spiff1 votes

Melee generally gets access to the backline, ranged generally doesnt. I would say melees could be turned into janitors, but thats more nuanced play than most want to bother with so theyd be considered trash

Naag One7 votes

true short story: nautilus top fed jax top, gg.

Mhihnj1 votes

not really. LCS changed Naut's life forever

My Waifu Vanilla1 votes

Being an oppressive top laner that traded exceptionally well and bullied most people out of lane by activating W and going into his "maximum trading stance" where you never win a fight against him as he bends you over is what changed Naut's life forever.

Mhihnj1 votes

i am talking about the fact that lcs played naut support, so now everyone is playing him support

weeaboomer6 votes

The mix damage bull shit is the most BS thing there is. I hate someone like Jax who get's so many free stats without having to build items. Wtf do i build? armor? oh wait, 2 free lich banes... building mr won't help with his ad damage...

Mazariamonti5 votes

Tahm is a better example. TahmKench

Those champions you listed are ridiculous because the items supporting them are ridiculous. Namely Titanic hydra and the Sated/Guinsoo's combination, often with a Steraks. Tahm can just build whatever and still out damage everyone else.

My Waifu Vanilla1 votes

Not anymore after the nerfs, which makes him now support only pretty much. Not to say it wasn't warranted, but they did go a BIT overboard.

Champion Skin1 votes

Ehh... Tahm generally isn't a very good support in soloQ Because almost all he has is his W to protect a nearby ally and a single target slow (it rarely stuns)

Most other supports just have more utility Like Thresh and Morgana both have good ways of protecting/saving an ally But also have better CC and pick potential

Or if Assassins are a problem (which is what Tahm W generally is best against) you could also try Zilean support Zilean has a save with his R (it has more range but of it also has longer cooldown compared to Tahm W) but Zilean also have a powerful target slow/Ms boost which he can cast twice and a potential AoE stun (Zilean can screw over melee champions so hard) and his passive for what little that's worth

My Waifu Vanilla1 votes

My comment was mainly aimed at Tahm's inability to solo anymore, however, most of the nerfs DID hit support kench hard.

I DO prefer Zilean in the mid lane (where I typically play him if we need more utility) since he has almost retard proof waveclear and does arguably more damage than Lulu while having the same utility (Zil E is what Lulu's Ally W wishes it could be when it grew up).

Champion Skin1 votes

Zilean E is also amazing at screwing over enemy melee champions especially those who rely on MS boosts rather then gap closer (and it is usually even more difficult to avoid bombs when in melee range)

Dar Raksada4 votes

I'd say it's mostly the items, not the champions.

SpongebobIsLife3 votes

i'd say its a mixture of both. Certain champions' kits, make themselves very volatile to certain items. This is especially seen in champions who have on-hit abilities. Think Jax, Kayle, Ez, Xin, etc. Introducing any on hit items either breaks these champs and/or the item is nerfed to the point where its not even built on them.

ZeeWolfZ3 votes

Volibear Yes, Keep your attention on others.

IceKingChernobog1 votes

im pretty sure he's gonna get a full overhaul just like poppy and sion....maybe(TBH he kinda needs one)

arcinex2 votes

I thought you were gonna talk about how Vayne can two shot a 500+ armor Malphite without item 3035 or item 3153

ll League God ll2 votes

The game isnt balanced around blind pick. If you didnt counter pick in a ranked or draft match, than thats completely on your team. Either way, i fail to see why youre mad

Dengeden1 votes

From a purely thematic standpoint, a fighter should dish out tons of damage and be moderately tanky IF they can get to you. I'm fine with that.

Additionally, fighters tend to have a bad laning phase. Either relying on snowball or an excess of items and taking a while before they can teamfight as opposed to someone who went Sunfire or FH. Sion on the other hand become progressively worse at fighting the longer the game goes on. You know why? He's good at other things, he has wave clear, cross map mobility and health scaling.

VivaLaKitten1 votes

if a fighter should deal tons of damage what good are assassins? fighters should merely deal moderate damage, assassins are the true damage dealers

BluePolarizer2 votes

assassins can unload their damage instantly. A good Rengar, AD Nocturne or Talon can kill you while they're still mid-air. fighters don't do anything even close.

My Waifu Vanilla1 votes

Fighters typically do larger AoE damage than Assassins and are also not nearly as mobile as Assassins are. Fighters are usually STRICTLY melee with their "threat range" being usually JUST outside of their AA Range (like 350 at the most). Assassin on the other hand usually have the mobility to make their threat range to 1000+.

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