Reset the Cooldown on Veigar's Ultimate if Target dies before it lands.

Mister Modesty·Jun 7, 2017·5 votes·1,327 views

Veigar's Ultimate is a cast-on-target ability. Once it is cast it is placed on full cooldown. But, sometimes the Ultimate doesn't even have a chance. The projectile speed is ridiculous slow, leaving a large frame of time between the casting and the actual effect. In this time, the target can die from other sources before the Ultimate projectile even makes contact. So essentially, Veigar's Ultimate is entirely wasted BECAUSE OF ALLY BEHAVIOR.

Now- I'm not saying allies should back off- that's just dumb. But the fact that an ally can completely ruin your Ultimate is counter-productive too. I think Veigar should have a secondary cooldown time for Ultimates that don't hit their mark- so he isn't waiting another full minute or more before wasting it again.

26 Comments

Captaín InsanoJun 7, 20178 votes

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA......no His ultie essentially kills anyone 2/3 health and below. if he messes up. thats on him. his ult is the strongest single target nuke in the game. If he ults the 50 health carry and they die before it lands. then thats on him

Starcraft243verJun 7, 20173 votes

Syndra's R deals more damages, in most cases.

Captaín InsanoJun 7, 20173 votes

{quoted}

Syndra's R deals more damages.

Syndra's R doesnt have an infinitely scaling AP passive. A good Veigar can easily farm up over 1300+ AP withing a 35-45 minute game. No other champ in the game can get that much AP in a game in that short amount of time. Syndra's R hits hard. A Veigar passive has the potential to hit WAYYYYYY HARDER. Not to mention Veigars ult is an execute spell. meaning it just consistenly has ways to do far more damage then Syndra's ult.

J EevoJun 7, 20174 votes

//kinda off topic but just to clarify(I disagree with op about veig needing the mechanic added) gon drop some knowledge//

Even with that in mind, Syndra's ult will actually deal more damage in most cases, despite the infinite scaling of Veigar. Veigar's ult simply isn't as effective as syndra's ult, as it is meant to function as a finisher, hence it's full effectiveness is reached when targets are already hurt, and the ult's damage goes mostly overkill. in all other realistic cases Syndra wins out.

Here's some math if you don't believe me(level 3 ults)- Syndra R with 6 balls 1080 base(+120% AP) Veigar R on full health target 325(+75% AP) Syndra average build ends on about 675 Ap(that's with lesser ap items like zhonya and voidstaff but not gonna count magicpen to simplify) Veigar usually ends up on about 1k/1,1k~ when ending game, depending on how bloody the game is but sure let's assume he's 1300 because you farmed all game. Syndra R damage 1080+(120%*675)=1080+810=1890 damage Veigar R damage 325+(75%*1300)=325+975=1300 damage

now sure with full combo it becomes irrelevant and both obliterate their opponent but that's hardly the point.

Mister ModestyJun 7, 20171 votes

Thanks for bringing some Trollbane.

Xion The XIVJun 7, 20171 votes

but what about the Mastery of 1% damage increase for Each champion they killed? the 3% increase damage for people 40% and below. Thing is Syndra's ult is better in some cases, but if the ADC is even hit once it is GONE. It's just that Veigar is the one I would go to, to get rid of that pesky Tank that is trying to Peel for the enemy team, or the ADC that thinks it can 1v5 penta. Also Veigar's Laugh is just tilt worthy.

Mister ModestyJun 7, 20171 votes

Veigar's Ultimate doesn't even put a dent in tanks. Nice try.

Kai GuyJun 8, 20171 votes

it does if they are dented tanks.

Xion The XIVJun 8, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mister B Nice,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RKEs7LPj,comment-id=000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2017-06-07T20:03:17.507+0000)

Veigar's Ultimate doesn't even put a dent in tanks. Nice try.

Ummmm. Blasts the target with primal magic to deal 175/250/325 (+75% Ability Power) to 350/500/650 (+150% Ability Power) magic damage, increasing based on the target's missing health.Damage is maximized against enemies below 33% health. Sure it doesn't dent the tanks. If you start off with your Ult never play Veigar again. And then you get the Merciless Mastery. So yea Nice try.

Mister ModestyJun 9, 20171 votes

I don't play Veigar. I play tank champions. I play ARAM a lot to learn how champions operate, and that's when I realized Veigs ult goes on full cd even if it fizzes. Honestly, it wouldn't affect how I play the game except in ARAM- I'm trying to keep an open mind. It doesn't seem reasonable that Veigar's ultimate doesn't have a secondary cooldown for that purpose.

Captaín InsanoJun 7, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=J Eevo,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RKEs7LPj,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-07T19:09:51.790+0000)

//kinda off topic but just to clarify(I disagree with op about veig needing the mechanic added) gon drop some knowledge//

Even with that in mind, Syndra's ult will actually deal more damage in most cases, despite the infinite scaling of Veigar. Veigar's ult simply isn't as effective as syndra's ult, as it is meant to function as a finisher, hence it's full effectiveness is reached when targets are already hurt, and the ult's damage goes mostly overkill. in all other realistic cases Syndra wins out.

Here's some math if you don't believe me(level 3 ults)- Syndra R with 6 balls 1080 base(+120% AP) Veigar R on full health target 325(+75% AP) Syndra average build ends on about 675 Ap(that's with lesser ap items like zhonya and voidstaff but not gonna count magicpen to simplify) Veigar usually ends up on about 1k/1,1k~ when ending game, depending on how bloody the game is but sure let's assume he's 1300 because you farmed all game. Syndra R damage 1080+(120%*675)=1080+810=1890 damage Veigar R damage 325+(75%*1300)=325+975=1300 damage

now sure with full combo it becomes irrelevant and both obliterate their opponent but that's hardly the point.

I appreciate your clarification. I was unaware of the pure number's side of thing. And what you said is pretty spot on. despite the higher damage due to executes. Its mostly overkill. Which isnt something I took into account. Good Job bringing that up! [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Starcraft243verJun 7, 20171 votes

I dont see why i get downvoted when you get upvoted for saying the same thing. I'd also add that you can have up to 7 spheres with syndra's ult, so it's 1260+140% ap.

(With 40% cdr : 2.4s cd on Q, sphere stay 8 seconds : 0s : Sphere 1 2.4s : Sphere 2 4.8s : Sphere 3 7.2s : Sphere 4

(pick up the first sphere to reset it's duration if needed).

Oh, also, syndra's ult procs thunderlord. Alone.

So that's : Syndra R+thunderlord damage 1440+(150%675)=1440+1012=2450 damage Add the %damages of the other masteries. Add maybe a drake ? You have a REAL ONE SHOT point and click ability. Once you have set up your balls you can just point and click any squishy without even landing another spell.

You USED to be able to do that with veigar (on ap champions). But now it's impossible.

Mister ModestyJun 7, 20171 votes

Here's a thought: find a library and get an education. You know nothing about the champion- which is obvious to any player who does. Your name is from Jax- so your opinion is immediately invalidated. And your general attitude is juvenile. HAHAHA are you four? Did your mom not change your diaper this morning? Diaper rash making you cranky? Gtfo boards slime.

Friendly RamJun 7, 20173 votes

you still get 6 ap.

Mister ModestyJun 7, 20171 votes

His Ultimate shouldn't even do that lmao. He gets enough AP from his Q- which was buffed so that it can farm more than one minion now.

I don't even care if the Ult doesn't land. I can't expect people to not attack because my spell is slowly floating to the target. I just think that in the case where it happens, like any other champion - Veigar should receive a secondary cooldown of 10 seconds or so.

Friendly RamJun 7, 20171 votes

think mantheon and swain have around 20 s. i'm not against it just think that he shouldn't have a nuke up twice per teamfight.

Mister ModestyJun 7, 20171 votes

WTF???? You're ignoring the key factor: THE FIRST CAST DOESN'T GO OFF.

It's not available twice per team fight if the first one does nothing. It would just be available again after a "miscast" and 10 seconds is more than enough time. If other champs have 20 or whatever- fine.

I'm just pointing out the flaw in how it does work. Essentially, Veigar can be rendered completely without his Ultimate during team fights because it landed on a dead target. The fact that he would be able to cast it again if the first time didn't work only gives him one successful Ultimate. Missing his Ultimate due to timely death shouldn't be punished with a full cooldown.

Face it- Veigar is stupid easy to counter. Whatever people say about him melting faces is bogus- tanks can withstand his entire ability arsenal and still secure the kill.

I don't even play Veigar like that. I don't play AP-focused champions in general.

My stance is one of neutrality. It's only fair that he be given leniency for wasted Ults. It's not being countered by enemies- it's being countered by allies.

Captaín InsanoJun 7, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mister B Nice,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RKEs7LPj,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-07T20:15:06.058+0000)

WTF???? You're ignoring the key factor: THE FIRST CAST DOESN'T GO OFF.

It's not available twice per team fight if the first one does nothing. It would just be available again after a "miscast" and 10 seconds is more than enough time. If other champs have 20 or whatever- fine.

I'm just pointing out the flaw in how it does work. Essentially, Veigar can be rendered completely without his Ultimate during team fights because it landed on a dead target. The fact that he would be able to cast it again if the first time didn't work only gives him one successful Ultimate. Missing his Ultimate due to timely death shouldn't be punished with a full cooldown.

Face it- Veigar is stupid easy to counter. Whatever people say about him melting faces is bogus- tanks can withstand his entire ability arsenal and still secure the kill.

I don't even play Veigar like that. I don't play AP-focused champions in general.

My stance is one of neutrality. It's only fair that he be given leniency for wasted Ults. It's not being countered by enemies- it's being countered by allies.

You shouldn't be firing Veigars ultimate at tanks in the first place. Its an execute. Veigar a burst mage. Typically a burst mage focus's ADC'S, Mages, and similar squishy targets. Giving him a redo on his ultimate because he prioritized the near dead squishy instead of the 3/4 health squishy is a player made mistake. Mistakes are meant to be punished. Otherwise there would be no such thing as counter play. Your superiority talk is completely unfounded and just as juvenile if not more juvenile then anything else said in this thread.

"The generality of people are uninformed and incapable of making informed decisions. The fact that you all disagree only validates my opinion through your own ignorance.

In a past life I had to argue the Earth wasn't flat to people just like you.

Get good in spelling "git gud" btw. Can't even misspell a word properly. Gtfoh." is completely unneeded. You are asking for a change that

A.) Does not and should not have any business being implemented into Veigars kit. It is an instant cast. Yes. it has a slow speed. but the cast is instant. Caitlyns ult and a waiting time, can be body blocked, and does no where near the same amount of damage. That is why if the target dies before the bullet even fires it gets a reset timer. Syndra's ult gets a full cooldown if she uses it and the target dies before hand. Why should Veigar's be any different.

B.) Has been already been downvoted by 11 people as I am writing this.

C.) No offense but being from Bronze 3 or so doesn't really qualify you to talk about deeper mechanics of the game and then get upset and toxic when people disagree with you.

"Here's a thought: find a library and get an education. You know nothing about the champion- which is obvious to any player who does. Your name is from Jax- so your opinion is immediately invalidated. And your general attitude is juvenile. HAHAHA are you four? Did your mom not change your diaper this morning? Diaper rash making you cranky? Gtfo boards slime."

Toxicity will get you nowhere. Jokes and a few haha's are ok. But leading to juvenile name calling and insults is where you cross the line from a bit of trolling and light-hearted fun, into toxic behavior.

CochoJun 7, 20172 votes

git gud

CryptoKeyJun 7, 20172 votes

Ha-ha-ha. (slow claps) Hell no. It's your fault that you can't KS when you want, then cry about it on the forums cause the projectile is too "slow". 2 words: git gud.

[zombie-brand-mindblown]

Mister ModestyJun 7, 20171 votes

Zombie brand and a weak comment.

You're about as smart as that emoji, pal.

CryptoKeyJun 7, 20171 votes

It's your fault that you can't KS when you want, then cry about it on the forums cause the projectile is too "slow". 2 words: git gud.

Was editing my comment. Also looks like everyone hates your weak idea, nice going pal.

Mister ModestyJun 7, 20171 votes

The generality of people are uninformed and incapable of making informed decisions. The fact that you all disagree only validates my opinion through your own ignorance.

In a past life I had to argue the Earth wasn't flat to people just like you.

Get good in spelling "git gud" btw. Can't even misspell a word properly. Gtfoh.

CryptoKeyJun 7, 20171 votes

And you think I was Zombie Brand, you're delusional and comparing flat Earth theory to Viegar's Ult. It's laughable the way you think.

Kai GuyJun 8, 20171 votes

You uh, your casting it to late or casting it in situations its not needed to have been used...