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MR Build for the Item: Bami's Cinder

Mister Modesty··26 votes·2,089 views

Immolate is a great tool for the champion that prefers close encounters. With the exception of Jungle items, Bami's Cinder has a single build path: Sunfire Cape. item 3751 + item 1031 + 1,000 gold = item 3068

Sunfire Cape enhances the Health bonus of Bami's Cinder from +280 to +500, and enhances the Armor bonus of Chain Vest from +40 to +50. Immolate is greatly enhanced from 5 (+1 per level) to 25 (+1 per level) magic damage per second.

I'm hoping we can get some attention to the Immolate enchantment that provides alternatives other than flat Armor and Health bonuses. Specifically, the introduction of a Magic Resistance build path.

If we wanted to be simple about it, we could simply substitute Chain Vest for Negatron Cloak, keep the cost equal and exchange Armor values for Magic Resistance values for the new item. But that seems pretty effortless.

An alternative could be to "evolve" the enchantment into different degrees. Like the Cold Steel enchantment that "evolves" into the Unique enchantment of Frozen Heart. Some offhand examples could be: creating a trail of flames, returning damage in the form of fire magic damage, active fire damage in an aoe, etc.. just something that would work much like the Warden's Mail to Frozen Heart transition.

I'm sure Riot can work out something to incorporate a new build path for Immolate. What are your thoughts?

23 Comments

Sohleks5 votes

A fire storm active shooting tank mr item?

Or just a fire carpet. That is effective when you use CC.

Or maybe add a item 1027 to the build for a bit less health and make it an actual fire spell active.. A possible mana/mr item. That way if a tank builds it against a mage it feels like they are fighting fire with... fire. Point is that it feels "spellcasty" with Sunfire Cape being the brawly thing. Also pushes it away from some of the bruiser types who have other items like Maw and allows it more power in the hands of the full tank types.

This would be great because tank MR items tend to feel very bland and defensive purely. A bland pill you have to swallow. The adaptive helm thing just furthers that. Tanks don't get "feel good" MR items historically. It's just the stat that does it. Is that ideal? Do you think tanks enjoy building visage when they are a champ that have zero particular synergy with it?

I have to admit swapping banshee veil and abyssal helps that tho

Mister Modesty1 votes

That opens up an interesting topic. I've thought about Bami's Cinder versus Frozen Heart in some regards. I've always thought they could have approached these items in a polar aspect. That is- making Frozen Heart a 2nd Tier item that builds straight out of Sapphire Crystal the way Bami's Cinder builds off Ruby Crystal. But that idea was a fork in the road many miles ago.. and it might cause an uproar to incorporate now.

Melledoneus5 votes

While I love the prospect of having an item like this, it would basically negate the idea of a magic damage top laner altogether. We already have Hexdrinker for damage dealers, so an MR version of sunfire would make it so that tanks can get waveclear no matter what. Also, think of what this would do to Galio top.

This item would be way too strong, especially in competitive.

Glamorous Rammus1 votes

I disagree. That would be like saying Immolate and Skirmisher's shouldn't mix- even though they do. Immolate is just made much weaker for Jungle Items than it is for Sunfire Cape.

50000000000000004 votes

item 3057 + item 3751 could be a really fun fighter item, although it doesn't solve the "too few MR tank items" issue.

Mister Modesty1 votes

item 3191 + item 3105

Elkington VI3 votes

Good idea. Bami's Cinder could definitely use another build path, especially one that helps against ranged AP's.

BoilTheOil3 votes

yea theres only really 2 ap tank items a 3rd one would be fine right?

JavelinJoe3 votes

I think it would just end up countering itself if all it gave was MR and the Immolate passive. item 3001 can get away with it because it offers more than just AP and MR. Its 10% CDR and passive make it still have value. The passive specifically can get around the MR because it scales with your magic damage output since it is 10%, and not a flat number.

I also think you may be forgetting that 2 new MR granting items are being introduced, Gargoyle Stoneplate and Adaptive Helm (while yes, 1 current item, Guardian Angle, is losing its MR).

Hinagiku332 votes

^ I felt this "problem" was already addressed by Riot in their Dev posts.

We're already getting more MR options that can be stacked together if you really need to hose mages for some reason. Gargoyle Stoneplate will probably be what you are looking for unless you are a Juggernaut or Diver and need to deal damage to be useful. Adaptive Helm / (new) Abyssal Scepter / Spirit Visage + Merc Treads is going to provide massive MR on top of the whole "effectively doubling your health" thing.

Magic damage is more effectively counter by health as-is due to mostly being gated by cooldowns, making a little MR and a lot of health a good option. Adaptive Helm mitigating a lot of damage from spammable spells should be all you need against magic DPS.

There's also that little problem that Riot has already said they really don't like Sunfire Cape's passive. They find just dealing magic DPS by standing next to someone and killing them by walking behind them and being hard to kill a bad play-style due to lacking interesting mechanics, counter-play, or any real skill expression. I actually wouldn't be surprised if they ended up removing Bami's Cinder altogether at some point. They definitely won't make more Bami's item when they already don't like Bami's.

If you just want more MR options then the next patch will have you covered. If you want Tanks to have damage options then Riot has already said they don't like reliable DPS on Tanks and if Tanks ever get more damage it will be either unreliable or require some kind of skill to achieve in order to give it counterplay.

Mister Modesty1 votes

Can you link the new items? I actually haven't seen anything about them [zombie-brand-facepalm]

JavelinJoe1 votes

Look under "DURABILITY ITEMS"

EcchiOtakuTM2 votes

Well there was an item in dawngate that league could copy from.

Every 3rd AA caused an AoE fire proc, if I remember.

League could make it apply on every few abilities so dawn gate players don't call them out for hard copying it.

Or your abilities leaves a flaming zone around the effected target/target area for a few seconds originating from the center of the target hit/AoE area. If multiple zones are placed their damage doesn't stack btw, that way multiple players won't try to build it and barbucue the enemy team.

And it wouldn't become a useless item if multiple build it, like currently black cleaver/abyssal don't stack with 2 different users holding it, but still multiple teammates may purchase them. So I do believe this new item could work if tuned properly without it's effect stacking from multiple players.

Feel free to make a thread on it if you desire, I'm taking a break from league for awhile until more performance updates for the new client happen.

Bârd3 votes

rip Dawngate

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

Ikr... that was the only game I regarded as my favorite moba even now, MxM is a close 2nd (in it's own way) with league 3rd but nothing compared to dawngate for me.

50000000000000005 votes

That sounds awfully like Udyr's Phoenix stance. Not that Dawngate stole it (or vice versa), but it seems like a bad idea to add an item with the exact same effect as a champion's spell as an item.

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

Yep and tbh it was bought mostly for a ranged on-hit adc, was fun though but how it would translate to league as an MR option might break koggles or other on-hit adcs.

Although with hurricane no longer proc'ing on-hits, it might be reasonable to add now.

Volibear Boss2 votes

We will get a new MR item this wednesday, i like your ide tho, and especially the idea of item 3057+item 3751

ÈvilMorty2 votes

I want another armor item for mages thats allitem 3191 +item 3010

TotalJerk2 votes

Mages wouldn't build that, tanks would.

Mister Modesty1 votes

I'd build it on Kassadin

Rengooo2 votes

Riot quite clearly doesn't like the immolate passive, judging from what they have said and the nerfs its getting on the pbe. Due to is low interaction game play or what ever.

An idea to amp up the interaction / satisfaction of the passive could be to make it a unique active? Kind like a mini Shyvana W on a cool down, that way you could actually make it feel impactful and give enemies opportunities to play around it when its on cool down...

Just an idea.

Frightning1 votes

Armor is never a bad stat on tanky characters because at the very least, you will probably have to tank tower at least once. Which means that armor will come in handy. You can build Sunfire+rest MR+hp and get your immolate with your one armor item if you really need to itemize heavily against magic damage.

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