Instead of whining about it, I just want to know the thought process behind it. Why does he have a double critical chance for a passive, in the first place?
My personal opinion, I honestly feel like he could still be strong without it. It breaks the idea of it being critical CHANCE if he still has it.
IcyPepper13 votesIt breaks the idea of it being critical CHANCE if he still has it.
Well, to be fair, 100% chance is still chance at 100%. Not exactly the best complaint (criticism, not insult. Don't be offended please!)
Keep in mind that it does come with a slight damage reduction, even if it's not that noticeable. But yes, I agree he could still be strong without it. I'd rather him have a better, more balanced passive so he could be a strong champion in his own merit without having to rely on such a gimmick.
EndlessSorcerer12 votesMelee carries (i.e. Master Yi, Tryndamere, Fiora, Jax) generally have strong damage and defensive steroids in their kit. In that regard, Yasuo isn't any different.
His doubled crit-chance and bonus armor penetration are honestly rather weak steroids compared to other melee-carries. That's even ignoring the fact that his basic attacks and Q deal reduced crit damage.
In addition, Yasuo's base stats are honestly rather bad compared to many characters. While Windwall and his shield are useful defensive steroids and help make up for it, champions who they don't overly affect (i.e. many fighters and tanks) can crush him at most stages of the game when played properly.
Yasuo has no reliable ranged abilities for farming or harass and his mobility is highly conditional on enemy units being in the proper location. He only has two damage abilities (one is essentially a modified basic attack and one deals low magic damage) and the base values of his stats and kit are on the low end.
Slamurai Jack6 votesIt's so they can justify making his base stats and base damages low enough to make tank and bruiser builds ineffective on him. Yasuo's crit passive achieves 3 things: It forces him to build damage to damage, it requires at least 3 damage items to do meaningful damage, and it does basically nothing early game to make up for how strong his kit is at very early levels. Giving him a different steroid would be almost guaranteed to push him into bruiser builds while making his laning unbearably dominant.
YCitizenSnipsY2 votesWith that said, what do you think about Huni's build on Yasuo from the TSM game? Seems brusierish to me.
http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/TRLH1/1001660032?gameHash=129244fa5493bfd3&tab=overview Link to the match history if you didn't see the game.
Slamurai Jack2 votesIt's a fine build if you're playing Yasuo top and don't need to carry your team with damage. I'd never do a build like that in mid lane though; the burst just isn't there and the late game scaling isn't there either. Keep in mind that Huni got really fed that game so the build looks a bit better than it actually is. That build to me looks like he wanted to split push against Graves all game and only grouped because his team was winning; I think his build is perfectly fine for 1v1ing in a side lane against a ranged champion but there are definitely better alternatives in most situations.
YCitizenSnipsY1 votesSo which do you consider better, Top or MId? He seems to get more play top in competitive these days.
Slamurai Jack3 votesI think top is better if you can get a decent matchup. It suits his hard farming, split push heavy style better and lets you have a mage as your other solo lane instead of a top laner. Mid lane is probably more reliable though.
Naag One1 votesif your lane opponent is not some squishy scrub and some bruiser-ish type, always rush Trinity. :) I build like brawler -> phage -> rest. so they simply don't just run you over or makes farming a nightmare for you cause they've have superior stats.
Wolfram Oxford4 votesMade a similar post before this, but instead I was asking how he could be balanced without the passive. I am not completely sure why they added in the double crit chance, but it does seem to placed to fit his whole play style. Really he is supposed to be a champion geared towards team fighting and dueling. His kit gives him survivability, mobility, and the damage to be useful as a melee ADC, and overall synergizes pretty good. His shield allows him to survive, his windwall also does this, his e allows him to be mobile and also maneuver around threats, his q allows for some utility, his ult allows for a gap closer and cc for your ally team to move in, and his passive works good with his dps and survivability since building life steal will do a good job at keeping him a live. So really all his crit passive does is reward him for building attack speed, increase his dps, and give him more survivability.
TehNACHO4 votesA midgame powerspike.
Yasuo finds his home in Mid Lane, making him the sub-carry in a conventional team comp. As the midlaner's primary role on the team is to provide Burst based damage for the team and wave clear, Yasuo's normally late game kit would just be an odd fit in a normal team. Because of this, rather than making it the case that you need to build a whole team around Yasuo by balancing his late game power curve with a midgame ADC, it seems to be that CertainlyT prioritized making Yasuo a flexible pick in any standard team comp by artificially forcing his power curve to spike in the early to midgame and fall off late. Aka, his Crit Chance passive.
hgjkdlsaf jeldvb3 votesWasn't certainlyT behind yasuo? I don't really mind 100% crit, but having it at 2 items is fucking stupid.
masc dom top3 votes
without crit would be like 
without shadows.
AngelFrost002 votesWhy would you ask people who did not make the ability. (US) Ask rito gaems balanec.
Jakra1 votesI'm asking anyone who would know, not just people who didn't make it.
warpenguin5552 voteshe really would be decent still without it
YumScrumptious962 votesHow? Take away his crit, he needs to build heavy crit to do damage, I'm talking like 3-4 crit items, he doesn't have range so now he can't use this crit item amount to stay back and do damage, he must go in, putting himself vulnerable, this means he can be blown up easily because he HAS to go in and he has low defensive items from requiring to build all this crit. No crit item gives defensive stats besides Trinity Force, so Yasuo becomes a waste of a pick.
Battlecast Sona1 votesexcept in every scenario he's been picked in LCS the generally make 1-2 damage items (maybe 3) and then make tank items... while still having 100% crit. Is that somehow balanced while the other scenario isn't? Considering how high his damage is now (and the power they'd be able to put back into his kit with the removal), I don't think losing the crit would devalue Yasuo as a pick, it would just make the pick more about a favorable matchup or good windwall counters instead of "I do a shitton of damage with 2 damage items!"
Naag One1 votes110 base damage at level 18 + 65 from IE = 175. His crits do like 225% damage?
static shiv 35% attack speed so at level 16 its around 1.3 total attack speed. and he is only AA based with no onhits, enpowered attacks etc.
if u build full tank after these two items, you won't be doing "shitton of damage" late game. You'll be worthless, you can't tank like real tanks do, and you won't do damage like real carries do. you're just...nothing. Ult -> random windwall -> random e -> die -> lose
Battlecast Sona1 votesand taht's why Huni of Immortals did it in the LCS. He went PD->Triforce->FROZEN MALLET and then GA and proceeded to carry his team to victory. Watch some LCS bro.
YumScrumptious961 votesThose items give damage dude, he didnt even need to carry, it was just him free hitting while Reignover stunned everyone. He had 100% crit doing 300 damage crits, he had no IE. so he didn't really have extra damage, nor was he full tank as GA and PD give no HP stats and Frozen Mallet's is not very high.
magee1011 votesHow? Take away his crit, he needs to build heavy crit to do damage, I'm talking like 3-4 crit items, he doesn't have range so now he can't use this crit item amount to stay back and do damage, he must go in, putting himself vulnerable, this means he can be blown up easily because he HAS to go in and he has low defensive items from requiring to build all this crit. No crit item gives def ensive stats besides Trinity Force, so Yasuo becomes a waste of a pick.
Here's the reason, Yasuo has mobility yes, but limited. His ultimate literally lands him generally right in the middle of the enemy team, and he's a dueler. Here's the thought process, make it so he doesn't have to build 100% crit chance and go full glass cannon, so taht when he DOES ultimate, he has a chance at killing at least one person once everyone recovers rather than being instantly blown up. Secondly we're also forgetting that Yasuo gets less crit damage on top of this, so he has to build an IE and generally this is all I get on Yasuo and from there I go straight bruiser
YumScrumptious961 votesUnless someone else helps, using your ult so quick will end in your death, generally you need someone to either initiate hugely or save it for clean up, otherwise it gets used on usually two people unless the other team is foolish and you get blown up. I've seen tanks get blown up insanely fast with higher HP than Yasuo with bruiser builds. All it takes is focus from the enemy and one bit of CC, the ADC should just crit him for insane damage if he is stunned as his Windwall is unusable. He trades damage for health, meaning he can survive longer with his team, he dies almost as quick if he doesn't get backup, so he can no longer just eliminate a high priority target unless its used for cleanup or someone like Malphite ults them first.
67chrome2 votesInstead of whining about it, I just want to know the thought process behind it. Why does he have a double critical chance for a passive, in the first place?
Probably has to do with a few reasons.
First and foremost: a lot of pure-offense melee champions are just really good at killing towers and kind of terrible at team-fighting, which has historically religated champions like 
to doing nothing beyond back-dooring and split-pushing 24/7 due to their melee AA steroids being extreemly solid vs. towers.
Towers cannot be critically struck: so having critical strikes as Yasou's core auto-attack steroid prevents him from pushing down towers amazingly well.
Secondly: a lot of AA steroids in the AD, AS, or even armor pen, true damage, and magical on-hit effects lead champions to having a really turbulent early-game in regards to power spikes. While champions like Tryndamere are generally thought of as having a weak early game, the raw power he gets from potent AA's at level 1 gives him an exceptionally strong level 1~2, where he falls off pretty hard at level ~5, sees a spike at level 6, and kind of falls off the planet around level ~11 when everyone else is getting 55 damage per-level in their QWER combo.
Yasou's double-crit steroid is a complete non-factor at levels 12 and gradually scales in power over the course of a game, allowing Yasou to be more reliable and predictable, as well as have better in-kit damage in QWER forms that allow him to be a relivant factor in early/mid/late game rather than being complete garbage and then switching on to game-breaking overpowered.
My personal opinion, I honestly feel like he could still be strong without it. It breaks the idea of it being critical CHANCE if he still has it.
Chance isn't a good thing to have in competitive play in large amounts.
It's ok to add some excitement and raise the stakes a little, but when chance can win or loose you games it doesn't really favor the training and commitment a competitive game wants it's player base to put in. To much chance, such as the game Candy Land or playing Slot Machines, allows for no display of skill whatsoever.
Yasou's crit-chance passive still encourages some degree of chance as Yasou won't have 100% crit chance for the better part of a game, but Yasou landing critical strikes is going to be really reliable and not very luck-based with his high chance of landing a critical hit for the majority of the game as well.
GlockHammer1 votesProbably has to do with a few reasons.
First and foremost: a lot of pure-offense melee champions are just really good at killing towers and kind of terrible at team-fighting, which has historically religated champions like
Towers cannot be critically struck: so having critical strikes as Yasou's core auto-attack steroid prevents him from pushing down towers amazingly well.
Secondly: a lot of AA steroids in the AD, AS, or even armor pen, true damage, and magical on-hit effects lead champions to having a really turbulent early-game in regards to power spikes. While champions like Tryndamere are generally thought of as having a weak early game, the raw power he gets from potent AA's at level 1 gives him an exceptionally strong level 1~2, where he falls off pretty hard at level ~5, sees a spike at level 6, and kind of falls off the planet around level ~11 when everyone else is getting
55 damage per-level in their QWER combo. Yasou's double-crit steroid is a complete non-factor at levels 12 and gradually scales in power over the course of a game, allowing Yasou to be more reliable and predictable, as well as have better in-kit damage in QWER forms that allow him to be a relivant factor in early/mid/late game rather than being complete garbage and then switching on to game-breaking overpowered.Chance isn't a good thing to have in competitive play in large amounts.
It's ok to add some excitement and raise the stakes a little, but when chance can win or loose you games it doesn't really favor the training and commitment a competitive game wants it's player base to put in. To much chance, such as the game Candy Land or playing Slot Machines, allows for no display of skill whatsoever.
Yasou's crit-chance passive still encourages some degree of chance as Yasou won't have 100% crit chance for the better part of a game, but Yasou landing critical strikes is going to be really reliable and not very luck-based with his high chance of landing a critical hit for the majority of the game as well.
My only objection to this is that alot of Yasuos I see ingame rush static shiv and trinity for 100% crit chance or two other items that alone maxes out his crit to 100%, this is kind of obnoxious since these items also make him very very mobile even without using his E. Thus alot of Yasuo's tend to have their 100% crit by the time laning phase is over, thus no longer chance but constant permacrit. Even Tryndamere needs to go a minimum of 3 crit items AND ramp up his passive to get the same ammount of crit that Yasuo get's just from two sole items.
67chrome1 votesMy only objection to this is that alot of Yasuos I see ingame rush static shiv and trinity for 100% crit chance or two other items that alone maxes out his crit to 100%, this is kind of obnoxious since these items also make him very very mobile even without using his E. Thus alot of Yasuo's tend to have their 100% crit by the time laning phase is over, thus no longer chance but constant permacrit.
Yasou shouldn't be at 100% crit by the time the lanning phase is over. Generally speaking you should barely have 1 major item finished by the time lanning phase ends, and Tri-Force is tied for being the most expensive item in the game.
Also: nothing enherantly wrong with crit chance being consistant. Ultimatly critical strikes serve as a DPS boost just like AD and AS for their purpose, and most would argue critical strikes increasing %DPS as they do with Ashe's current kit would be healthier for the game.
Even Tryndamere needs to go a minimum of 3 crit items AND ramp up his passive to get the same ammount of crit that Yasuo get's just from two sole items.
So? Tryndamere doesn't really want 100% crit. Tryndamere just wants the highest DPS possible, which means a mix of offensive stats rather than capping any particular one.
Even in the case of Yasou: crit is simply an AA DPS booster. Getting nothing but crit over getting a mix of AD, AS, Crit, and Armor pen results in the same situation as 1 x 19 = 19 vs. 5 x 5 x 5 x 5 = 625.
LoL heavily favors mixing relevant stats in roughly equal amounts: leaving nothing particularly game-breaking or magical by maximizing crit chance. This is also pretty much the TLDR of why Tri-Force offers such a massive power spike despite offering really unimpressive bonuses to a wide range of stats.
Also, because of how math works with stat interactions: Tryndamere's joint crit and AD steroids allow Tryndamere to unleash higher auto-attack DPS than Yasou at pretty much every stage of the game.
MrBuffington2 votesMost squishy melee carries have some sort of damage amplifier: Riven has her passive spell-weaving plus all her low CD spells (also her ult gives her AD); Master Yi has a lot of true damage (also his passive); Trynamere also relies on Crit; Fiora (though not very squishy ATM) has her %HP true damage. I think it's because, as long as you have a squishy melee carry, they need some advantage over a ranged ADC, otherwise why would you ever pick them (besides just personal preference)?
That's the idea, at least. It could be any number of things; double crit chance just happened to be the one they settled on for Yasuo, because CertainlyT is a big fan of crazy ideas :P
doiminat0r36002 votesMagikarpUsedFly's video about Yasuo explains exactly my feelings about this guy. Overloaded passive BS bar showing the amount of movements until you can make your next mistake and most importantly the windwall is OP as heck
japan hate acc1 votesNot really, the windwall does have a high cooldown, and doesn't block Lux's ult, along with other things. Shen has a much worse shield, where he blocks all incoming damage. Not to mention, Yasuo is a very high-difficulty champion. Take his squishiness along with the timing required for him to stay alive and make kills, he is fine. His passive is not 'overloaded', either. Like other people said, he doesn't have the damage output that some other melee champions have, and crits do not affect towers or structures, so he doesn't have insane pushing power, and his critical damage is reduced. So all in all, no his passive is not 'overloaded'. And even if you were talking about his whole shield thing, that can easily be countered. All you have to do is aa him ONCE, and then his shield is triggered. Then you just go in. Don't blow part of your kit only to trigger his shield. Honestly. If anything, it seems like you don't know how to deal with him, not that this is a balance problem.
doiminat0r36001 votesJust because it has a high cooldown and doesnt block non projectile attacks doesn't mean its not OP. Thats like saying that Lux's ult isnt OP because if you're quick you can step out of the way of it.
Yasuo's windwall blocks projectiles. It says that in the spell. It is broken that it blocks all of Nami's wave if it hits a single bit of it, not to mention that it blocks from all sides, so positioning hardly matters. Just stand in it and youre free.
Shen has a much worse shield, where he blocks all incoming damage.
Shen's shield only defends against auto attacks.
Yasuo is a very high-difficulty champion.
First of all, that must be a joke. It took me, and most others just a few games (1-2) to get a grasp on him. I got my second penta with him and i didn't even have runes or masteries with him. I hardly play ad champs and it was my second game as him. They may have been a bad enemy team, but that's no excuse.
Take his squishiness along with the timing required for him to stay alive and make kills, he is fine.
Timing = land 3 Qs and ult as well as e on every minion to show your true mechanics of skill and mastery with him as you dodge every ability. Not to mention you get to block 90% of the damage from the next incoming attack (if its above a certain point, else its all of the damage).
His passive is not 'overloaded', either.
passive shield (mentioned above), double crit (slightly reduced but that is nearly insignificant). Did I mention his windwall?
All you have to do is aa him ONCE, and then his shield is triggered.
What do you do if you're melee? His shield also makes a temporary shield that stops other damage if it was under that finite amount to pop the shield.
Lastly, it's not that I don't know how to deal with him. It's that if you have to change your play-style completely to match a certain champion, something is wrong.
japan hate acc1 votesFirst off, I didn't know that Shen's shield only blocked auto-attacks. As for his difficulty, he should definitely be made harder to play, since his kit can be very powerful. I feel like if he was made harder to play, he would be fair. Maybe by lowering how long his enemies are knocked up by his third Q, or something just to balance him.
doiminat0r36001 votesThe ways I see to balance him without gutting his "perfect" kit would be:
Remove shield or make it act like every other shield in the game, scaling off level.
Make his windwall have a health bar, if taken damage, it shrinks or it disappears completely after a certain damage output.
Don't give him a shield when he ults and reduce his armor pen. 50% is way too much, especially with all the AD items he will be building.
Everything else isnt TOO bad but these things make him too strong/especially annoying.
thumbnail92 votesHonestly he wouldn't be that good.
Especially now when you can't really build LW and be effective. Overall his dps would be shot in the foot and become really inconsistent.
Phenyxs1 votesWhy ask why and just play the game. Better question is why is the community the way it is and how we can improve it.
4th Chiming Lamb4 votesKnow your enemy. It helps.
Only Play Darius1 votesBecause all melee ADC's have overcompensated damage kits to make up for their lack of range. Yi has global resets, slow immunity, untargetability, true damage, multiple crit scalings etc (he's quite overloaded despite being good at only one thing). Trynd has no resources, free crit and the inability to die even under hard CC. Old Fiora was the queen of cheese. Yasuo's double crit is just the unfortunate bullshit that he needs to be viable or else there is no reason to pick him over a ranged AD
Evewynn1 votesEvery adc has some sort of steroid in their kit that makes attacking more attractive for them. This is especially true for melee champions, which draw a fine line between bruiser and carry.
If yasuo did not have a steroid, he would have no incentive to build like an adc, and would instead become a bruiser. the passive shield and wind wall are very strong defensive abilities, along with his cc, so he would bring a good amount of defense and disruption while being relatively tanky. In fact, he would probably just amuse the metagolem build and would still be gross to play against.
This goes against the fantasy that riot wanted to create, which was to create a melee adc other than someone like Trynd.
If anything, his mobility through minion waves should be nerfed, as it inflates the power of his laning phase while still being a strong late game champ (with huge power spikes after buying stattik and again after IE).
charcharmunro1 votesEvery melee carry has some inherent bullshit to balance out the fact they're melee. Jax gets defense from building damage, Gangplank isn't REALLY melee half the time and has the oranges, Yi has the ult and his Q, etc.
Samflash31 votesHe was intended to be the counter to ADCs. The MELEE CARRY. But he found more success in midlane and not may people even thought of taking him bot.
TwinkiePro1 votesI want to know why he's allowed to have so much free damage. Its not enough to have double crit chance, but also 50% armor pen after ulting? on a 30 second cooldown? He can kill anyone -_-
Naag One2 votesif by anyone you mean squishy immobile carries who thinks they're the shit and roam alone far end of the map away from their team, then yes Yasuo can kill anyone
Teridax681 votesIt breaks the idea of it being critical CHANCE if he still has it.
That was the original intention. Critical chance is an inherently unstable stat, particularly when it came in much smaller amounts prior to the marksman update, and Yasuo was designed to have relatively stable damage output, with each of his attacks not having to depend as much on a coin flip in order to deal satisfying damage. The issue, though, is that it's currently making his laning relatively unstable and snowbally, and might not even be all that relevant now that standard marksman-type builds feature high enough amounts of crit to be reliable in the late-game.
Personally, I hate the "chance" part of critical strike chance, and I'd much rather have crit depend on non-random factors, whichever they might be. There is no real gameplay to this kind of RNG (pseudo-RNG, technically), and I think that's especially bad when crit-dependent builds tend to be lacking in overt interaction between the user (generally marksmen, also light fighters) and their targets, beyond leaving their range or bursting them down. There's also a problem of autoattack-dependent builds lacking in high moments, and crit ends up acting as a flat multiplier to basic attack damage when it should be providing those instances of concentrated power. Trouble is, it's not really possible to tie pronounced highs and lows into a mechanic that's more or less out of the player's control without them feeling unfair and unnecessarily swingy, which is why I think crit needs to change into something completely different, and preferably non-random.
Frius1 votesx2 crit chance cause ,cuz crits deal 20% reduced dmg and 25% on Q