why ARURF has the perception of being god awful

Very Hard Engage··3 votes·765 views

not because of being unable to pick your champion, but because its random based on champion pool in combination with stacked teams.

in being truly 100% random, there is no control or balance whatsoever and its completely up to matchmaker to determine who gets to win based on who gets the OP meta pick champions.

thats truly disgusting. (the simple fix however is to unlock all champions for the game mode)

however if you play enough games it eventually becomes fair, but not when you only play 10 games, that sample size is way to subject to RNG.

now on the other hand, in plain old regular urf YOU ALWAYS GET WHAT YOU WANT, even if you're always playing against eve, hec, ezreal shaco etc.

big difference between your fun is assured and you do accomplish what you set out to do, vs "i never got to play _____ champ at all" LAME.


TL:DR having fun > "balance"

its urf, its not supposed to be fair, its supposed to be fun.

19 Comments

AmetDeCrypt3 votes

I would love truly all random urf. and just truly all random aram to boot. people have been asking for it for YEARS and riot just stuffs their ears in their ass and releases more skins for 20 bucks. I set out to play zac and got him once. and the enemy team got a full set of cc poke machines that kept interrupting my jumps midair and keeping me chained while deleting my team far behind me so I couldn't actually do anything.

Sir Fuzzi1 votes

ARAM does not need fully unlocked rosters. You think dodging is bad now? Fully unlocked, it'll be a dead queue.

As someone who enjoys ARAM for what it is, please don't.

AmetDeCrypt2 votes

why would it die? do people only play to replay and replay champions over and over or to try out new champions they may never have thought to use before to get better at the game as I'd always assumed?

Sir Fuzzi1 votes

Honestly, I'm not really willing to have this discussion. Dodges and ARAM accounts are only valid arguments up until they need to be presented AGAINST the favour of an all-champs roster. Then they get denied, because these arguments only work to fit the narrative of some magical land where people don't always keep Lux as opposed to rerolling her.

AmetDeCrypt1 votes

excuse me what?

I'll try to parse this word vomit down to an argument... so the argument is only valid when arguing for true all random but not against? yes... that's the point is to argue for that. what narrative are you talking about with lux and rerolls?? the reason it would be better is not because people may or may not reroll lux but because people build accounts with only lux and a select others and get them far more often giving them an inflated chance of victory. the literal (or figurative) only argument against true all random is "well people will be forced to play champions they're uncomfortable with and learn fast"

first of all, good. second of all if they aren't able to that's not aram's fault, that's the tutorial's, not teaching people about the champions and matchups. dota has a very nice system for this, importing guides right into the game, tips, builds, and all. it's not especially difficult, but if riot doesn't want to involve the community in the game like that they can simply add the basic guides themselves like when to go in, how to combo, what items to buy for what matchups, whether or not it's a dumb idea to build righteous glory on kled (spoilers it is but it's stupid fun in the right situation)

Sir Fuzzi1 votes

For starters, people already dodge. Start giving them J4, who they have decidedly not bought because they dislike him, and they're going to start dodging more.

Secondarily, the mode flourishes because you can have a motley selection of your champs but you won't be facing the same regurgitated meta each and every game. This does mostly include 'strong players' given the apparent rise up of 'ARAM accounts.'

Freeing up the roster isn't going to magically punish anyone or enrich games. It's barely going to do anything; the long-standing players of ARAM are probably closer to me where I own some 130 champions. Meanwhile, ARAM accounts will bust a dodge if they pull Xin Zhao (who, if you've played him, is positively dope in ARAM). If we just bolster the number of champs they dodge on, how is this helpful? Is this really 'definitive' of ARAM, or is that something entirely on the players themselves (and thus, largely out of our control no matter what we do)?

Considering also how many of the 6300 line are regarded as toxic opponents in ARAM (like Jayce and Zyra to name two, they're both still 6300 these days right?) this isn't necessarily enhancing the experience either, as much as giving up free champs to people who would otherwise have to work toward them. Shouldn't this also be concerning where rerolls are quickly becoming shots at fine-tuning your lines? Similarly, if everyone can trade, can't teams just purge unfavourable picks with rerolls? Won't this make facing unfavourable comps more likely?

Now, it's largely because of the dodging I fault the full roster ARAM. I've always supported that it should have a boosted free week, but at the same time if you give someone Morde in ARAM and they're the kind of person who makes an ARAM account, they're probably the kind who dodges when they get Morde. Meanwhile, nobody else is going to care. The players like me are just going to get sacked with twice the number of dodges, which sounds like an awful lot of fun but pardon me if I'm a little opposed at first.

To clarify, I stated I didn't want the discussion because most people default really hard on their arguments. So, sorry about that. By 'dead' this is largely what I mean, twice the number of dodges just to get into a game of ARAM-- as you and I both probably well know, a game of ARAM can end up being disappointingly short and unrewarding. That's no problem and that's how the cards fall, but understand that people will get sick of the dodge-for-five-queues routine, and the queue will empty out. 45sec is a pretty solid queue time, but I could see an eventuality of the two minute queue. See, I'd sustain that quick queue times keep the queue alive-- nobody has to slog through two minutes of queue (in a kind world without a bad dodge streak anyway) so the game mode is easy to get in and out of.

Even in the face of an 'ideal gameplay,' I think it really is best in ARAM's situation to let players have at least that much agency, to know only owned champs and free week will be picks. I myself love ARAM for what it is, because the random pick just means I get to learn everyone (where I wouldn't play, say, Shyvana much normally). It also opens up for unconventional builds and eliminates the need for CS to stay relevant in gold (or a gold item), and the main focus is on teamfighting. I love ARAM! But if we start changing it radically like that, I think people are going to start abandoning the queue because it'll be very principally different with the entire roster unlocked. It's virtually a new game mode.

Which is why I think that particular feature should go to ARURF. Not only does that put everyone on a level of parity with the URF aspects considered, but it highly reduces the effectiveness of people who are going to cheese out with hand-picked champion buys.

AmetDeCrypt1 votes

huh...

given that there's no data on what would happen to the mode and both of us are pretty much saying "yeah that's totally how that would go trust me" I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree.

ZyniX1 votes

If you really enjoy aram for what it is then you wouldn't mind.

Sir Fuzzi1 votes

That's no problem. I love ARAM and own all but some six champions... the random aspect is literally why I play, because the chaotic lineups are what attract me to it as opposed to the meta-slave normal game.

On the other hand, a lot of people populate the roster. A lot of them dodge already. Making this a thing is going to increase dodges.

Look, if we're being honest it's probably already in the works, but it's not gonna be as pretty as everyone thinks.

bwop2 votes

no, urf is garbage because its over hyped and when it's out like a good chunk of the player base is playing it leaving norms empty. 80% CDR literally turns people into potatoes after that because they forget auto attacks exist.

ATastyDessert2 votes

There is no perception with ARURF. Either you stomp or you get stomped. Neither is fun.

WarHero542 votes

Been playing nonstop from pbe urf to now and I have not once got the champ I've wanted. I hate it

Sir Fuzzi1 votes

Nobody wants to face Evelynn in URF, though. Nobody wants to face Shaco, Ezreal, Hecarim-- they want to BE those champions, but nobody wants to PLAY AGAINST THEM. This conundrum, literally this right here and that last line of your diatribe, these are literally why ARURF exists. Because nobody wanted to face Ezreal every game because he was picked in. Nobody wants ten bans to not cover the some-twenty-five that are broken beyond compare in URF.

'Watching as other people pick from a highly-limited roster' is fun for you, but for those of us who like to throw chance to the wind, ARURF does just fine. Sure there's lots of popular picks; not all of them, though. And that is the crucial difference, the difference between URF and ARURF is "not X literally every game."

On the other hand, ARURF is one I do advocate going full roster for, no reason not to. It's RGM, who gives a damn if they're all available?

Very Hard Engage1 votes

on the other hand someone like me who wants to play vel koz/twitch/zyra its a shame i NEVER get to play those champs as i own most of the roster and get stuck on one of the 80 worthless champs every single game. all because i dont play over 150 games of arurf.

but dont worry, i guess ill take my aram only account who has primarily OP poke champions who are still viable on ARURF all the same, then wow arurf is the best thing since spreadable butter.

Sir Fuzzi1 votes

To be fair, hard butter sucks. I want to play literally every champ at least once in URF, but when your opponents aren't braindead bots, some picks just aren't going to be viable-- otherwise certain picks will block out a lot of champions.

It's unfortunate but the ban roster isn't going to fix anything. It's going to shuffle the other 57 champions who are fantastic in URF into the different hands. The reason you only see them is because outliers get rolled immediately and those picks never do.

It's not the access to the champ that's the problem. Or to other champs. They just naturally perform well and there's lots of them.

Sirsir1 votes

Honestly I think the 10 ban system would do wonders for regular URF.

But yeah they basically replaced the 'Same 16 picks/bans every game' flaw, with the 'Random button decides who wins games' flaw

I've played around 20 games in ARURF and predicted the outcome in each one. So far (aside from a few 4v5s and an int-er) I've only been wrong twice.

Serika Zero1 votes

i didn't even bother to play this. I rather play aram if i want randomness.

In other cases, i very much like to be able to chose what i play. And in my case, that's the biggest reason why random urf will never be a thing for me

Sohleks1 votes

I'm a veteran jack of all trades player so I like ARURF as it makes w/e champion I get fresh. I at least get to reroll at least once a game too. I've never ran out as most champs are ok. But I'm not most people.

I'd rather have this though than Zed and Fiora and Fizz everygame.

Salron1 votes

{quoted} however if you play enough games it eventually becomes fair

Not really I see Garen/Eve/Fizz nearly every other game

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