I feel like Boards is very supportive of "new playstyles"....until one actually appears.

ModCaptainMårvelous··188 votes·24,804 views

Viktor is a great example because this happened twice now.

Early on in the season, Viktor started taking Fleet Footwork. It let him do some cool trading patterns and survive lane, enabling him to exist when he wasn't in the best state. Sounds cool right? VIktor taking a keystone that isn't obvious and finding success....nope. According to a forum post, this was to show "how dire the state of Viktor was" that he had to take fleet footwork to survive.

We're now seeing it again with Klepto viktor. A response to Urgot/Aatrox/etc. and other slow moving but strong champions where Viktor can poke and harass. A meta adaption to a common strategy? Countering the current "OP" picks with an unexpected and unique playstyle? Boards should be LOVING this! Nope. This is a "cancer playstyle" that "isn't fun to play against" and should be reworked or removed.

Every time I see something weird or unique come out, it's not a cool adaption to the state of the game. It's not an evolution to playing a champion and a viable alternative. It's written off as "unfun", "not how the champ should be played" or "garbage". Taliyah becoming a jungler isn't a weird a cool new evolution of the character, it's Riot killing Taliyah and the only way she can survive is in the jungle? Even if she's still got some power in the midlane? (According to OP.gg, she's sitting at a 51% winrate and a 14% pick rate. Really killed her midlane, eh?)

For a community that looks back on the glory days of going AP Tristana, On-hit GP and more, you guys sure are quick to demand Riot remove a new playstyle whenever it appears. Who deems what is "a viable playstyle" and what is "a bulshit adaption"? Why is it that a champion going a rune-or-mastery path they don't usually go become a sign of how far that champ has fallen? Why can't we accept that maybe this champ finding success with this set-up isn't a sign of the champ being in dire straits but a sign that the champ can find success with a new way of thinking?

EDIT: To add an important comment from below that I made.

Again: The problem isn't "I think Viktor should get some nerfs", the problem is that apparently people would rather see a new and emerging build completely and utterly removed rather than balanced to accommodate a new playstyle. People don't want Viktor top to be a thing you can pocket pick, they want it removed because Viktor should ONLY BE AN AP MIDLANER AND ANYTHING ELSE IS AGAINST THE GOSPEL. Still, Viktor is but one example.

238 Comments

Moody P29 votes

A response to Urgot/Aatrox/etc.

can you stop spreading this? it isn't true. Aatrox crushes Viktor and Urgot goes even with him in lane because both are safe laners relative to top laners.

Viktor is just another champion who outranges most of the below-S tier top laners and abuses the shit out of the range disadvantage by being an AP pantheon with great kiting and scaling excellently into the rest of the game. It's not necessarily his fault that Riot cucks the shit out of melee champions by not letting them have a way to offset range advantage, but as far as current balance is concerned he's extremely abusive of everyone that can't hard-gapclose into his face, which includes most every juggernaut besides the above + Darius and pretty much every tank.

We're sick of dealing with the yearly "ranged AP becomes complete cancer in top" garbage that Riot never addresses short of gutting that champ entirely. Viktor doesn't get to be an exception just because he isn't one of the ordinary culprits.

ModCaptainMårvelous24 votes

Naw, the problem is that Viktor is a good pick into Aatrox and Urgot...once you learn to play him. Which is actually harder than it looks. Even with win-rate accounted for, Viktor is currently beating Aatrox and Urgot in stats like first tower kill, damage done and kill participation. Pros are good with him, your average player won't be. (Speaking of Viktor has a 51% pickrate. Whoops)

But hey, let's check out some more picks strong against Viktor:

Wukong Irelia (lul) Ekko Karthus Hecarim Rengar Akali Yasuo

And that's not counting near-even lanes like Qunn, Pantheon, Olaf and more. As it turns out, it's NOT that Viktor crushes any below-S-tier toplane. It's that you need to pick the right thing against him....dare I say, an adaption to what you usually play. (Unless it's Irelia.)

We're sick of dealing with the yearly "ranged AP becomes complete cancer in top" garbage that Riot never addresses short of gutting that champ entirely. Viktor doesn't get to be an exception just because he isn't one of the ordinary culprits.

Then why does Viktor have to follow the rules and get gutted rather than breaking the cycle and letting small nerfs change things? Why do we have to keep the status quo of breaking kneecaps rather than putting the foot down and saying "We can nerf Viktor a bit without gutting his top lane"?

It seems like we're all more concerned about keeping the status quo of "AP champ gets good top lane. Gets demolished to oblivion. Repeat yearly" rather than actually changing things.

Moody P6 votes

because when you cycle all those picks you still don't have any room for the champions that Viktor, the original problem child here, has been shitting on out of relevance singlehandedly

We don't need top lane turning into mid 2.0 where it's a bunch of long range mages, Yasuo, and assassins all as a response to Viktor and juggernauts and tanks can just get fucked. Addressing the fact that Viktor top is an enormous stat check with endless, targeted and low-cost poke with bonus shields and later on a near permanent MS boost takes more than just a "small nerf."

ModCaptainMårvelous20 votes

Not really. Let's take Karthus, one of Viktor's worst match-ups. Whose good against Karthus?

Heimerdinger, Irelia, Garen, Aatrox, Malphite, Jax.

But wait, about 6 of the ones listed (sans Irelia) are pretty fucked by Viktor? How about Rengar?

Lissandra, Yorick, Volibear, Maokai, Illaoi.

Again, most chaps Viktor can fight on equal grounds. Hell, out of everything listed, only three are technically mid-laners going top.

The problem with your thinking is that once Viktor is meta, it's only his counters. Instead, it should be Viktor, his counters, then his counter counters, than THEIR counters...at which point you have a vibrant meta with lots of counterpicks, choices and match-ups you can select. As well as some generalists who might be safe picks (Cough cough Irelia) once they're toned down.

My problem is that this never occurs. You have Viktor and his counters. Then Viktor is gutted out of toplane due to outcry. Which leads back to the same stable of champs rising to the top. Which leads to a stale meta. The thing we try to avoid.

Moody P4 votes

No you dont get a vibrant meta. You get mid lane 2.0 because not blind picking a counter to Viktor (who are all mid laners) means you lose.

Viktor top is a tumor to this game and if my champs are the eternal target of boards for "no counterplay" memes then Viktor gets to be on the block too.

There is no interesting game play here. There is no minigame no win condition. Viktor spams Q on your face and you either have a kit that can all in him or you lose. This is nothing worth supporting and I'm sure it's no coincidence that we suddenly want to support these terrible meta shifts because it's a mage this time.

3TWarrior2 votes

by "interesting gameplay" do you mean the minigame things that they put in some champions' kits?

those are by far the least interesting and most frustrating things to be put into the game, especially when the implementation is not at its best

Catastrophic6 votes

{quoted}

Naw, the problem is that Viktor is a good pick into Aatrox and Urgot...once you learn to play him. Which is actually harder than it looks. Even with win-rate accounted for, Viktor is currently beating Aatrox and Urgot in stats like first tower kill, damage done and kill participation. Pros are good with him, your average player won't be. (Speaking of Viktor has a 51% pickrate. Whoops)

But hey, let's check out some more picks strong against Viktor:

Wukong Irelia (lul) Ekko Karthus Hecarim Rengar Akali Yasuo

And that's not counting near-even lanes like Qunn, Pantheon, Olaf and more. As it turns out, it's NOT that Viktor crushes any below-S-tier toplane. It's that you need to pick the right thing against him....dare I say, an adaption to what you usually play. (Unless it's Irelia.)

Then why does Viktor have to follow the rules and get gutted rather than breaking the cycle and letting small nerfs change things? Why do we have to keep the status quo of breaking kneecaps rather than putting the foot down and saying "We can nerf Viktor a bit without gutting his top lane"?

It seems like we're all more concerned about keeping the status quo of "AP champ gets good top lane. Gets demolished to oblivion. Repeat yearly" rather than actually changing things.

That is a fair point, maybe they should nerf him instead of gutting him. But the only issue with that is this, here's a list of ranged top laners that DON'T break top lane when they're meta:

demoted to iron4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RAmUjeJK,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-10-28T01:45:53.108+0000)

can you stop spreading this? it isn't true. Aatrox crushes Viktor and Urgot goes even with him in lane because both are safe laners relative to top laners.

go watch Afreeca vs. C9 and IG vs. G2 and tell me in what way Aatrox crushes that matchup. Even on u.gg if you check Viktor top's lane matchup stats he has nearly a 53% wr into Aatrox. Check your facts before you call someone else out for being wrong.

saltran3 votes

Aatrox crushes Viktor

HAHAHAHAHAHA VIKTOR IS PLAYED ON WORLDS AS A COUNTER TO AATROX WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT

Rewatch Kiin smashing Licorice's Aatrox as Viktor solo killing him like 3 times and you say that Aatrox crushes Viktor what the hell is wrong with you man and I wont type more so mods dont ban me again.

Ragnaveil23 votes

I have no personal issues with new playstyles. The only issue is when they just come out of left field and ingrain themselves as the "best". If this current version of Viktor took time and the playrate went up over time, then I would accept it and look at what can be picked into it. Having it just jump out of the woodwork and start smacking things left and right is just not the right thing (Anyone recall when the Banner meta forced itself in with one buff as the best playstyle, and it choked the everlasting shit out of innovation and skill?).

ModCaptainMårvelous14 votes

Completely fair. I'd be fine with that if it was the common response of slightly nerfing something. Problem is the common argument/discussion isn't "Nerf this thing so it's A-to-B tier instead of S+++ tier", it's "Make this shit D tier so I never have to play against it".

Hell, even with a 51% pickrate, Viktor's winrate is 51% as well. Counters and answers do exist, it's about finding and adapting them.

Ragnaveil8 votes

"Aatrox is OP to the point he's being pick/ban in Worlds!1!1! Plz Nerf!" Well no shit, his kit consists of a fuckton of cc and unexpected burst in a burst meta. Outside of that, he feels underwhelming as shit. Urgot's the same thing (although he excels at killing beefy frontlines compared to burst) Case you can't tell, im mimicking the simplified majority of posts towards these champs.

haaaaaaalp1 votes

When nerfing a champion, the target should be to bring a champion to the average power of all 140 champions in the game, not to just nerf them down to the average power of the other overpowered pick/ban champions. A proper nerf shouldn't keep viktor in the top 40 champions that are always pick/banned, it should drop him to about the power of the 70th champion in the game (and this applies to every champion, not just viktor).

ModCaptainMårvelous5 votes

Average power...for who?

Diamond? Bronze? All ranks? Pro play?

That's the bigger issue with balancing.

haaaaaaalp4 votes

{quoted}

Average power...for who?

Diamond? Bronze? All ranks? Pro play?

That's the bigger issue with balancing.

That is a completely different subject which requires an entire different topic to discuss. However, changing the subject really doesn't help discuss the issue at hand and I don't think we should derail this topic to bring up an entirely new one.

There are some champions for which elo matters and they can be a problem for months at one elo without being touched at other elos. Viktor is not one of those heroes. It has only been 1 week since Kiin pulled him out to destory aatrox and he is already seeing play in pro all the way down to silver. By the time the next patch cycle hits, he is going to be a problem at all elo brackets and it doesn't matter which one you choose because his stats won't be all that different anywhere.

3TWarrior1 votes

wasn't the banner meta a high elo thing and caused by a blatant oversight in the design that TOWERS do physical damage as well? reducing their effectiveness by half

Ragnaveil1 votes

Not really. It was a niche item like Ohmwrecker till they decided to spring a change out of nowhere and it ended up being a living nightmare to the point they were forced to remove it.

3TWarrior1 votes

that's exactly what I just said. It was a niche item, then they changed it to affect BOTH sources of damage and that in turn doubled their effectiveness against towers...

towers deal physical damage, reduce that by 50% and suddenly it's a huge issue because you can extend the power of a wave in multiples of how many people buy it

Ragnaveil2 votes

That, and it stacked with Baron, making Siege minions literal gods.

Ahpe17 votes

Have you like just not read any of the valid points people have made on why the new Viktor top is so oppressive?

ModCaptainMårvelous53 votes

I have.

The prevailing discourse isn't "Hey maybe nerf these parts so it's still viable but not as strong", it's "REEEEEEEEEEE DELETE IT NEVER LET VIKTOR ENTER TOP LANE MAKE HIM DROP HIS HEXCORE IF HE EVER STEPS FOOT IN TOPLANE".

EDIT: Additional note, Viktor's lowest win-rates are against Rengar, Karthus and Irelia top lane. His strongest are Ryze, Tryn and Ornn. From OP.gg (Bear with me, it's the easiest stats to find), Viktor struggles against characters like Ekko, Akali and Wukong who can dive in on him. Which means maybe instead of asking Riot to nerf it, maybe find a way to work around it by trying something new? In the same way Viktor came top?

haaaaaaalp3 votes

That is bullshit. The prevailing point has always been top viktor is way too strong. He hard counters too many champions which is why his winrate is so high despite having a few terrible matchups like you point out.

The only reason there the current reaction exists is because he is strong enough to maintain a 52% winrate and a 30+% pick+ban rate. If he had a 50% winrate and a 10% pick+ban rate, there wouldn't be nearly the same reaction.

ModCaptainMårvelous18 votes

He hard counters too many champions which is why his winrate is so high despite having a few terrible matchups like you point out.

Like I mentioned in a previous post, people should start taking those counters then. If Viktor is strong to the point of instalock, people should begin looking for ways to play against it. I know, it's league blasphemy to consider that maybe I can't instalock my main every single game but if it's -really- that bad, people need to pick it.

As boards often says, League should be about adapting your gameplay and skills rather than going the same cookie cutter path every game.....yet when presented with the choice of learn a new champ to deal with Viktor vs. "just do the same thing until Riot nerfs it", people will almost always pick the latter.

GayFluffyUnicorn9 votes

Or how about these morons you are asslicking start actually balancing the game? So that i can play MY champions without being instantly counterpicked by any ranged champion with absolutely zero counterplay? Why is it "unique and something different and oh dear god do you see my boner" when some dogshit fucktard ranged champion crops up toplane to invalidate half the champion roster but the MOMENT someone like irelia goes midlane and kills some mages it's an abomination and should never be played there again? Or should i ask bout the four days mages were played botlane and riot and the community freaked the fuck out immediately buffing adcs back into retard tier? No its only toplane that has to endure the shit of "never ever firstpick a champion you like or you get shit like viktor top and never get to play league of legends".

Jerry SeinfeId6 votes

the problem isn't irelia going mid, it's irelia being an abomination.

Slythrin Umbreon17 votes

Have you read none of the valid reasons why he isn't?

Ahpe5 votes

I actually haven't now that you bring it up. What are the valid reasons on why he's not that weren't in Cap's post?

Spank the Fox15 votes

Can I use your thread to rant how everyone is calling it “Tank Viktor” and is totally fine with that name (despite only generally building IBG and then AP/HP items), but whenever other tanky builds appeared (like when Hecarim and Rek’Sai were good) everyone was quick to jump and say “THEY’RE DIVERS NOT TANKS!!1!!!1 NOT A TANK META!”

Also, the community are a bunch of hypocrites. “Ban soft inters Riot, they’re far worse than toxic chat players” > Hash gets banned “Wtf he wasn’t soft inting, just having a bad game.”

Or the whole “inting Sion” threads despite almost nobody having a match history vs Sion.

The community doesn’t want diversity, they just want their favorites to be OP. Why are we even fucking here?

/rant

Rock MD3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Spank the Fox,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RAmUjeJK,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2018-10-28T02:50:48.546+0000)

Can I use your thread to rant how everyone is calling it “Tank Viktor” and is totally fine with that name (despite only generally building IBG and then AP/HP items), but whenever other tanky builds appeared (like when Hecarim and Rek’Sai were good) everyone was quick to jump and say “THEY’RE DIVERS NOT TANKS!!1!!!1 NOT A TANK META!”

Also, the community are a bunch of hypocrites. “Ban soft inters Riot, they’re far worse than toxic chat players” > Hash gets banned “Wtf he wasn’t soft inting, just having a bad game.”

Or the whole “inting Sion” threads despite almost nobody having a match history vs Sion.

The community doesn’t want diversity, they just want their favorites to be OP. Why are we even fucking here?

/rant

That's what I've been saying for months now.

Issue is nobody likes being accused and if you hit them with something so generalized they'll always say, "wow it's almost like boards is full of a diverse group of people." to shift/avoid blame for their part in it.

Fact of the matter is people subconsciously want their champion to be good/OP but also feel like they're working hard for their efforts.

Wacky97 votes

Maybe it's because we enjoy the idea that champions should either be strong in one role, or medium in multiple roles. Maybe it's because we like tank/fighter/assassin toplanes and find that mage and marksman toplane fights are straight up awful. Maybe it's because Riot should keep champions strong in the roles that they belong in, rather then shoving them off to other lanes, making balance even more difficult. It's one thing to be Jayce, or Graves, or Yasuo and be playable practically anywhere. It's quite another when a traditional midlane only champion gets moved into toplane because of Riot's ineffective balancing.

ModCaptainMårvelous46 votes

Maybe it's because Riot should keep champions strong in the roles that they belong in, rather then shoving them off to other lanes, making balance even more difficult.

And who determines this?

What if Viktor's role should be top lane? What if maybe Diana is better in the jungle than mid-lane? Basically, you're falling into the exact thing I pointed out: "I don't like this playstyle. Viktor should only be a midlaner." And apparently this wasn't a balance issue, considering it wasn't found out for months, even years, after Viktor's rework.

Again: The problem isn't "I think Viktor should get some nerfs", the problem is that apparently people would rather see a new and emerging build completely and utterly removed rather than balanced to accommodate a new playstyle. People don't want Viktor top to be a thing you can pocket pick, they want it removed because Viktor should ONLY BE AN AP MIDLANER AND ANYTHING ELSE IS AGAINST THE GOSPEL. Still, Viktor is but one example.

MuffledGarbage2 votes

Toplaners want Viktor top to be unviable because he shuts down any lane interaction and can lane bully any toplaner WHILE also outscaling them. Viktor top is another flavor of Kennen. Beats down toplaners and then outscales them in teamfights, in 1v1s, in literally anything.

barely any toplaners can actually deal with viktor. The ones who can deal with viktor easily are the ones who are equally as overpowered(A.K.A. Quinn, Kennen, etc.)

PhantomSpirit1012 votes

Quinn... overpowered.... is this the same game we're playing? I think you meant oppressive

Jerry SeinfeId3 votes

they are ranged and show up top, clearly they are beyond broken. /s

MuffledGarbage1 votes

if you don't think being able to lane bully AND outscale the champs you lane bully is overpowered, please do explain why.

Quinn Lane bullys toplaners and then outscales them. There's nothing a non-S tier toplaner can do against a quinn with half of a brain.

Darius can't do crap unless he flashes and Quinn ALSO has a flash(how about that).

Yorick can't get any traction down because he can't lifesteal enough if Quinn focuses Yorick down.

Even Aatrox now can't even outheal/outdamage Quinn early AND he still gets outscaled by Quinn, even in teamfights

Irelia can beat Quinn but that's only due to her current place as an S-tier champ.

Fiora gets kited to hell and back and can't recover from the earlygame due to Quinn outscaling her.

Jayce uses up way too much mana and ends up losing the lane cause Quinn can use up less mana as well as harass Jace in his melee form.

Do you see where I'm going with this?

Any non-Stier toplaner loses to Quinn, and S-tiers go even with her.

Tanks all end up not being able to farm until 10 minutes in after they've gotten enough ambient gold to buy armor, and then they are useful JUST for their CC and they can't deal with Quinn still due to them being so far behind.

You can replace all instances of "Quinn" with "Kennen" and get the same effect. Except Kennen counters even MORE toplaners cause he only ever needs to back for items. It's almost impossible to run out of Energy as Kennen

FireLion222 votes

Did you just tell me that Quinn ouscales fiora??

Nevrankroaton9 votes

This point show well why Karma's main crying about her in the midlane are so out of the loop atm...

Rock MD6 votes

{quoted}

This point show well why Karma's main crying about her in the midlane are so out of the loop atm...

and the Zyra mid people

I get so tired of them crying because they don't realize that with a kit like that she'll never be played in the midlane over a support position.

Sharpest glasses11 votes

What if Viktor's role should be top lane?

at this moment he shouldnt be a bully and scale so well.

Nevrankroaton2 votes

He always bullied melee laner tho... Like it is still the same viktor, it is just that in a meta where power pick like Aatrox give so much pressure, having a bully laner with good waveclear and that can properly scale is very important. If gnar was strongezr, you would have see him for sure. Same for Jayce who is also used as a CP.

How do you deal with an incredibly strong melee laner? Well... Don't be in his range.

IP Masquerena7 votes

In the end, I will stick to the fact that players don't want a balanced game, they want a "fake balance". Viktor top means you can't play your lane the same way you would play it vs everything else, and the moment something forces players to either abandon their autopilot game play or lose lane, they cry it's op.

A game is only balanced as long as the player crying "OP/imba/broken/cancer/whatever" wins by playing on autopilot, the moment they can't win without thinking and doing the exact same thing every game, the thing they were against must be gutted.

If the game has versatility means they can't play on autopilot, so of course they hate it.

3TWarrior1 votes

really? only a select few champions have those issues and most of them it is a core part of their kit that causes the problem

instead, against viktor, if you can get to him at all, you can bash his face in before he even gets his items, preferably at level 1 or 2 and then have a huge advantage

compared to champion X that just pushes a button and it's now you can do nothing

IP Masquerena3 votes

I'm not talking about champions who play on autopilot, but player mentality. They feel like they are entitled to build the same way and play the same way every game, and win every game, otherwise it's either the team being full of noobs and they can't "1v9" or the thing they were against is broken.

3TWarrior1 votes

okay, but what about champions that "force" you to play in different ways? it feels awful and disrupts the game while giving those champions artificial power

IP Masquerena2 votes

Well, not quite. Yes, they do get some artificial power, but a player that wants to climb and get better must be able to adapt and change his game plan, if he doesn't, he doesn't deserve to climb.

It can feel awful, especially for players who don't care about ranked and just want to play for fun in normals, but those are the least affected, while players in ranked should be able to adapt.

Champions that are hard to defeat if you don't know how to do certain things are unfun to play against for a majority of players because they lose all agency. Wave management, power spikes, loss of power, positioning and others can make or break champions, and all those are "basic" knowledge, but when a champion forces the need of those aspects, making them mandatory instead of them being an advantage, it feels like you have no counter play, no agency unless you can do those things.

Some will call those champions cancer or unfun, but they are actually ok. We already see complaints how teammates are noobs in all ranks, champions like these make it so that those who climb have at least some basic knowledge.

They only disrupt the game if you only play on autopilot.

JackMcSnipeyz4 votes

It's always been like that. People like to talk how much they want diversity and dynamic builds and unique playstyles, but when one actually becomes viable they call it cancer because, jokes on them, when someone brings in a unique playstyle, the counter to it is way less obvious.

Just throw in "inting Sion" aswell, people complain about toplaners having no impact and how if you dont 1 shot someone you are useless, the comes this tanky slow guy who wins games by taking objectives, and people HATE it.

TheSymbolÔfPeace3 votes

I never had a problem with Viktor top, I see it as a hit or miss. If you hit you'll be relevant the rest of the game. Miss, and your damage will be non-existent and you'll have to catch up (or never catch up).

TwitchInMyPants3 votes

Honestly this discussion is an amusing read but it does show one of the most toxic things about League culture - blaming. It's easy to blame a pick that's a good matchup rather than your ability to create advantages or to learn to try other champions. Its easier to blame a teammate than it is to figure out how to improve. And frankly this probably happens all over the place, ADCs have often been infamous for blaming sup/jg and plenty of ADC mains (myself included) blamed Riot for ruining the role when mages became optimal in bot during 8.11.

But holy shit, I don't think I've seen more blaming the game anywhere other than toplane this year. Specifically these onetrick bruiser players who are constantly complaining about whatever ranged bully is currently popular while kissing the feet of Hashinshin. It's understandable that its frustrating dealing with Gnar, Jayce, Ryze, Viktor, Quinn, w/e happens to be out there. But these picks also get stomped by certain assassins, bruisers, mages, and tanks based on matchup. There's plenty of flavors of melee champion. But instead of adapting, we've got this culture that wants Riot to gut anything with range because that's easier than actually learning your matchup or another champion.

It's ok if you think the state of the game is better when there's more melee champions toplane, that's a fair opinion and most champions designed for the role are melee champions. But we literally had double mage meta in S1 and there's always been a couple of floating ranged bullies in the toplane champion pool. When dealing with melee vs ranged, melee typically gets more loaded abilities, more dashes, more power. Meanwhile ranged has the power to kite, they always get the first shot, and if they position right they should be able to poke. It's basically an explosive all in vs draining your opponent very generally, and while this often leans harder into one or the other I think the variety of champions available has created a healthy balance when the numbers are in a good spot... though I guess this state of the game that's been going on ever since League was live is suddenly unhealthy uninteractive garbage that should be deleted?

It's honestly disheartening how common this mindset is, but honestly Riot seems to know better than to act on whiny impulses... most of the time. Though honestly even if Riot did listen to some of this, look at how many mages, marksman, and fighters with ranged abilities there are in the game. Even if you keep gutting them there'll always be another one unless you delete half the champions and turn the game into "League of Melee". And lets be real, at that point we're going to hear outcry about tanks because no one is poking them down.

Linna Excel2 votes

A new playstyle is great when you are the person doing it or it's happening in another lane. When you are losing to a match-up you have no idea about it's not fun.

ModCaptainMårvelous13 votes

Oh of course. It's always hard to be in a losing match-up. But the question isn't the spur-of-the-moment in match decisions.

Do you.....

A.) Learn to play around it, discover new counters and evolve your playstyle to deal with something your current champ might not be able to handle.

or

B.) Make a post to yell at Riot about how toxic and unfun it is until they eviscerate the champ?

In the FGC, we basically have an unspoken rule that if you want to get better, you learn to play ALL your character match-ups or put some pocket picks to deal with something strong. Maybe Sophitia is a shitty match-up for Asteroth? Learn a new character or find a way to deal with the match-up because Namco sure-as-shit isn't going to nerf Sophitia because you can't play around it, unlike Riot.

More from Gameplay

More by CaptainMårvelous