Crit on ADCs should not feel like burst damage. Crits should apply much more to armored targets.

Theorchero··11 votes·662 views

ADC's complain about bot being camped. Well when you have a role that's the strongest in the game (aside from maybe jg, and that's because they affect which bot lane wins) because they have the best objective control (minus smite, they are key to taking things like towers and baron), while also having damage to not only whittle down tanks (I use the term 'whittle' but really, they burst down tanks once they get a couple items), but to out-burst mages when they crit squishies, AND have huge survivability because of escape tools, range, safety, and itemization that lets them drain tank and shield themselves.

This is before you account that most meta supports have a sickening amount of healing/shielding and straight up DPS amplification in the form of Ardent Censor, Locket, etc.

We really should look into reworking crit so that it's not nearly as effective on squishies as it is on tanks.

This is coming from a Gangplank main. If I can overlook my bias and realize that crit and ADC's abuse of it is bullshit then you know there's a problem.

32 Comments

oSEXYPLATYPUSo5 votes

isnt crit just an amplification of physical damage?

isnt physical damage reduced by armor ?

so wouldnt getting armor reduce damage taken from crit?

Theorchero1 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RA2epJfJ,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-08-03T00:37:43.474+0000)

isnt crit just an amplification of physical damage?

isnt physical damage reduced by armor ?

so wouldnt getting armor reduce damage taken from crit?

Current system? Yes.

I'm saying that crit should be used for dealing with tanks, and that crit should be more effective verses armored targets than unarmored ones.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo2 votes

well it is... it amplifies the damage from the adc therefore they do more sustain damage and that is what kills tanks

Theorchero1 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RA2epJfJ,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2017-08-03T15:54:52.174+0000)

well it is... it amplifies the damage from the adc therefore they do more sustain damage and that is what kills tanks

Except the way crit works it's much more useful verses squishies as burst damage than it is on tanks.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo3 votes

adcs with crit are meant to do damage that is what they are designed to do...

so they do damage to all...

Theorchero3 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RA2epJfJ,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2017-08-03T16:00:27.465+0000)

adcs with crit are meant to do damage that is what they are designed to do...

so they do damage to all...

Including bursting squishies harder than most assassins while also having range, safety, and no cooldowns associated with it?

oSEXYPLATYPUSo5 votes

squishys have damage , adcs are squishy they have damage

Dasdi961 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RA2epJfJ,comment-id=0002000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-08-03T16:39:44.876+0000)

squishys have damage , adcs are squishy they have damage

Enchanters are usually squishy and they don't do much dmg.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo4 votes

they have range ?

heals? shields?

should be getting /attack speed reduction vs heavy auto attackers/ strong fed crit champ?

Doozku2 votes

Why would you pick Assassins when ADC's do more damage, are harder to kill thanks to lifesteal, are way safer, and have more objective control?

oSEXYPLATYPUSo2 votes

but we see assassins picked

and the adcs that are on top arent building full crit at the moment , its a mixture of lethality builds on jhin and mf draven is Deaths dance twitch would be the closest to full crit auto attack build path and then we have trist who is 3 crit item build

so the build varies per the type of adc they are

and due to the RNG of crit its not a consistent burst damage

most assassin have burst damage and full lethality builds which flat out is good vs the likes of adcs cuz they arent building and stacking armor.

then you get to an adc like ashe... she dont get the benefit of the crit multiplier liek a twitch, trist, cait , jinx

she gets bonus damage on autos after applying frost shot that is a steady damage that isnt burst

then we get kog who is mix damage on hit type of adc

out of the top 25 graded champs 4 are adcs according to http://lolalytics.com/detailed/ if you filter it by TIER and the adcs are as followed twitch # 2 over all draven # 3 over all kog # 9 over all and trist at # 25

Doozku1 votes

To be clear I don't think that crit is the problem with ADC's. I think that ADC's are the problem with ADC's. Any class which has a majority of its damage placed in undodgable resourceless cooldownless nukes is going to be a problem when it comes to balance and counterplay. I'd say part of the reason why Assassins are difficult to balance and why they feel so frustrating to play against is that their kits are meant to outplay that which has no counterplay, auto-attacks. If they can beat that, then either A. Adc is weak, or B. Assassins are really good and are now crowding out mages.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo2 votes

the issue is most players dont build to counter what they are facing... they just dont think... they dont set up a rune page to face an ad assassin mid... they dont rush into armor items as a mage ( see it all the time) they wanna rush damage and think they will out burst the assassin early and it just not true they get too much upfront damage cheap so a mage vs an assassin has to adjust most mages will scale into mid game if not late similar to an adc just faster being in a solo lane most have some form of cc alot have mobility

but when you are a mage who dont rush item 3191 item 3047 vs a Zed who can get item 3134 item 3155 into item 3147 before you as a mage finish item 3157 item 3047 he has more damage and def vs your damage and lack of it

item 3157 2900 item 3047 1100 item 31551300 item 3147 2900 gold yes the ap build is 200 gold cheaper but zed hits his power spike sooner and has all in and kill pressure and as the mage you sunk so much gold into getting defensive you slow your mid game scaling and power spike

this dont include runes you might have to adjust or masteries to be able to sustain til you reach your mid game spike

so not only are the mages squishy , they are facing not only the AD assassin mid but an ADC who either builds assassin like or have crit damage this is why mages seem to be suppressed by the meta

however mages do have a high win rate cuz if you dont get behind and die early due to the nature of their kits they are better for team fights and will scale

for example Orianna vs a Zed she has more presence in a team fight and peel and zoning and due to aoe damage and her shield she offers value besides damage were as zed has to snowball get ahead and outside of picking off the adc/ support he dont have team fight presence

ZephyrDrake1 votes

{quoted}

Except the way crit works it's much more useful verses squishies as burst damage than it is on tanks.

ok and? squishies will die to even a tank that is building no damage. They will die to a support that is building no damage. If you are a squishy champion your job is to find ways to be effective while not being hit with stuff. If your frontline is allowing you as a squishy to be hit by ANYTHING then either you screwed up or your frontline screwed up... or you just had a horrible teamcomp to begin with

Theorchero1 votes

{quoted}

ok and? squishies will die to even a tank that is building no damage. They will die to a support that is building no damage. If you are a squishy champion your job is to find ways to be effective while not being hit with stuff. If your frontline is allowing you as a squishy to be hit by ANYTHING then either you screwed up or your frontline screwed up... or you just had a horrible teamcomp to begin with

Squishies that have damage usually are not threatened by supports or tanks. If you're being blown up by a support, than that's not a support. That's a mage bot lane.

ZephyrDrake1 votes

{quoted}

Squishies that have damage usually are not threatened by supports or tanks. If you're being blown up by a support, than that's not a support. That's a mage bot lane.

i can take away over 50% of a squishy's HP with Sona while building absolutely nothing but support items item 3504 item 3174 item 2301 item 3190 item 3158 item 3107 (my usual Sona build)

I can do the same with Bard. I have solo'd full HP ADCs before with Taric building nothing but tank items. A squishy champion is squishy no matter how much damage they do and if you surprise them you can chunk them down very easily, if they have no way of regaining their HP without going back to fountain then it's even better for you. A squishy champion will always be threatened by everyone if they actually play smartly and don't try to walk towards them like a dope

Executioner1 votes

Dont speak the truth, they hate the truth.

DunkinNoobs4 votes

I mean, yeah. If adcs are hitting squishies in a teamfight, you fucked up somewhere. Massively.

Doozku5 votes

What about Assassins? What about Twitch who can flank really hard and get massive range thanks to his R?

Damodar3 votes

If everything you said was true, bot lane wouldn't get camped cause it would be suicide. Stop acting like ADCs are complete gods in this game when the reality is that you still don't bring 5 of them in a match for a reason.

PrinceOfStorms3 votes

If ADCs weren't complete gods in this game, then you wouldn't see ADCs being the only class picked in duo lanes and you also wouldn't see ADCs in solo lanes. Both are the case.

Crit needs to be deleted from the game and ADC attack speed needs to be capped at 1.25 (down from 2.5), with no bullshit "compensation" buffs given to the class. Ideally their winrate should be countable on one hand.

FlameanatorX1 votes

Ideally they should have a 5% or lower winrate? Wtf? Even the most underpowered or hard to play champions ever to exist have never had below a 30% winrate, and almost never below 40%. If a champion is below 45% they are either weaker than shit or so hard to play only professional players, masters one-tricks, or challenger mains can use them.

If adc's are too strong or universally seen in the game, then they need slight nerfs to bring them back in line, not being worse than Olafed.

ZephyrDrake1 votes

sorry but are you high or something? you are doing nothing but show you insane and extreme bias for an entire class of champions and providing the most dumb and stupid "solutions" to the problem. ADCs should have a 5% winrate at most? what? like literally what? attack speed needs to be capped at that low? why? crit needs to be deleted why? because you cannot handle ADCs? because you cannot handle anything that punishes you for your terrible plays?

PrinceOfStorms1 votes

The class has been meta since season fucking one. It deserves at least one full season where they're completely and utterly useless.

LyingOnLine3 votes

Yeah, crits shouldn't feel like crits and armor shouldn't actually mean anything!

I swear, do you people ever actually listen to yourselves?

Rip Rengo 20162 votes

Yeah lets make ADC's only have to buy Crit .. and leave out LW and Lifesteal..

waiting for WoW2 votes

The funny thing is everything you just stated applies to Yasuo x10.

Btw I'd rather have ADC build crit than things like duskblade and lethality stacking jhins.

MuffledGarbage2 votes

Something I've heard that's been suggested a few times before is to change crit to be a modifier of your AD. EX: 30% crit on item 3085 transfers to +0.3 multiplied by character's AD = probably should change the name of this stat but it's _still Critical Strike Chance _ for now

So let's take a typical level 10 Ashe and give her a item 3085 and with her 74 AD .

Her AD is now multiplied to 0.3 x 74 = 22.2

74+ 22 = 96

She now has 96 AD and the other stats she would normally get from building item 3085.

It might work but it'd be a huge change

Doozku1 votes

Agree with what you said but how does smite help you take towers?

Theorchero1 votes

{quoted}

Agree with what you said but how does smite help you take towers?

Towers are not the only objective.

Doozku1 votes

minus smite, they are key to taking things like towers and baron

Assumed that this meant that smite was good for taking towers, guess I misunderstood that.

xkillertenzo1 votes

You can always build armor you know? Oh and the new Guardian angel is cheap now. 2400 Gold.

More from Gameplay

More by Theorchero