The reason fizz has a DOT on his W..

Dracocrash··39 votes·2,392 views

is to balance him.

If he did not have a DOT on his auto's, imagine tower dives.

He could dive you, reset tower agro with E and walk around till his spells came back off cooldown.

With the DOT, even if he e's the tower will continue to agro him.

90 Comments

Vallalan16 votes

its just a shitty execute that was poorly thought out. it's not to balance him. his W needs changes and riot has said so time and time again.

Dracocrash30 votes

im not justifying the % hp missing damage. Im only justifying that fact that its a DOT.

Ralanr10 votes

Ok. But we can agree the missing %hp damage makes it a wee bit stupid powerful?

kile1478 votes

It needs to be treated like Veigar R is all. Have it scale with missing HP, but not deal %HP.

AirKingNeo2 votes

But Veigar R happens to execute from 60% HP so I don't see what is fair here.

RocketRelm1 votes

At what point in the game? Cause when dueling at lvl 6 in midlane it sure don't do that.

kile1471 votes

Veigar's R deals 175/250/325 (+75% Ability Power) to 350/500/650 (+150% Ability Power) magic damage, increasing based on the target's missing health.Damage is maximized against enemies below 33% health.

CasterGilgamesh1 votes

honestly this is the way riot should handle it with assassins

CasterGilgamesh1 votes

we all know that and those who didnt do now that Ekko exist

IPromiseTomorrow6 votes

Worst reason for having DOT %missinghealth damage on an ability ever? I think so because I never feel like he takes a huge risk when he can Q then E's out.

I've never seen a good fizz willingly walk up to me then E to stay under tower range.

maikokk1 votes

if the wave is pushed well enough , and fizz bonus damage was all up front, fizzz actually gains a ton of dps on dives. without the dot making it impossible to reset turret agro more than 2 times in 1 dive, you have an extra couple AA's to account for, and the ability to zone them out of experience under turret.

you can still make agressive plays like this, but it would be so much easier if you didnt have to wait a couple seconds for the dot to wear off

CasterGilgamesh4 votes

we all agree fizz is cancer and needs to be dealt with some how and some way

L0ve Is Blue3 votes

Tbh I just die from the damage over time most of the time so I wouldn't mind if he tower dived me without it. If he uses his E that means he can't dodge my spells anymore.

Also no assassin should have %health damage. They are here to take out squishy targets and they should be countered by HP. %health damage goes against that and thats why cancers like Fizz or Ekko tank are allowed to live.

The Yetii Rider2 votes

[{quoted}](name=L0ve Is Blue,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=R51phX4x,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2016-09-27T12:21:24.215+0000)

Tbh I just die from the damage over time most of the time so I wouldn't mind if he tower dived me without it. If he uses his E that means he can't dodge my spells anymore.

Also no assassin should have %health damage. They are here to take out squishy targets and they should be countered by HP. %health damage goes against that and thats why cancers like Fizz or Ekko tank are allowed to live.

It's not % max health or % current health, it's % missing health. That's more effective on squishies because it scales based on the damage your combo already did to them (you only do 600 damage to a 3000 health tank but you deal 1500 damage to a 2000 health squishy).

L0ve Is Blue2 votes

Still shouldn't be % health. Should be flat to be more easily countered by tanks and more effective on squishies. But anyway I don'T even see a point in arguing why % health damage is cancer on an assassin, it has already proven itself many times with fizz duskblade and ekko.

The Yetii Rider2 votes

Ekko's tank build functioned because of his synergy with Iceborn Gauntlet. He has a very low cooldown, gap closing ability that applies Spellblade. Ditto with Fizz.

That's why even after tank Ekko got nerfed you still see Trinity Force Ekko. Spellblade is the problem.

L0ve Is Blue2 votes

Spellblade is the problem.

Oh I thought the problem was him having an AOE stun + 100%AP scaling shield+ execute %health damage all stuffed in one ability hahaha silly me

maikokk1 votes

spellblade provies a bit of burst, but that isnt what enables AA based assasins to go tanky. it provides a relatively small amount of damage compared to fervor in a full rotation with a few AA's.... and fervor is FREE.

fervor is why tank fizz/ekko/evelyn can afford to buy triforce, otherwise they would have no kill pressure and be permanently zoned out of farm

Astôlfo2 votes

No, incorrect. Assassins should most definitely have % missing health. Resistances are a thing. It'll still only be effective on squishy targets unless the % is too high, which'd promote tank. They don't take out just squishies. They clean up any low health target. If it's a tank, so be it.

L0ve Is Blue2 votes

No. If its a low health tank he should be harder to take out than a low health ADC or Mage. So no % health damage. Tanks are supposed to be hard to kill. If you give assassins tools to counter tanks than they don't have any other counter but CC who counters everyone in the game.

Astôlfo2 votes

They still are harder to take out, genius. They still have an asston of resistances.

Tanks are supposed to be hard to kill, yes. Not if they have almost no health at all.

That is a misleading and inaccurate statement. Assassins have dozens of counters. And CC counters everyone, yes, but it counters assassins far harder than say, a tank.

Try again.

L0ve Is Blue2 votes

Aight just gonna stop arguing with someone who thinks fizz is balanced and assassins should have %health damage there is no point in doing so haha XD have a nice day.

Astôlfo3 votes

And I'll stop wasting my time on a blithering fool who cries about Fizz and assassins because they're bad.

Dracocrash1 votes

lul. Look at his stats and tell me hes not balanced.

maikokk1 votes

fizz is balanced and assasins should have %health damage (be it missing, current, or max depending on the desired niche) so that they dont need insane base flat damage. otherwise, they are too effective against squishes and worthless against anything with bonus health

CerealBoxOfDoom2 votes

implying he doesn't do this anyways or that % missing hp is needed lol

Astôlfo2 votes

He's an assassin. That's why he has % missing health.

CerealBoxOfDoom6 votes

% missing health dot as in it kills you slowly and it even procs on an autoattack so he can just harass you down

does that really sound like an league style assassin to you? Harrass and poke them down while passively farming with the same ability under tower?

Astôlfo2 votes

Except they will not do that unless they're ass in the first place. And then you just build resistances. And beat the shit out of his piss-poor laning phase in terms of farming.

And unless you're low health, the % missing health is so small it will take forever.

CerealBoxOfDoom6 votes

on the otherhand its what allows tankier fizz builds to function and gives him a fallback plan in case someone actually puts up a fight and does well so that he wont lose much farm unless you are constantly wasting mana trying to harass him. He doesn't even have to stay near the minion, his dot is strong enough that he can pull a morgana and more or less passive farm under tower. Against champions he can deal a lot of damage per auto early simply because of this. That small amount of damage is a big deal when added to the rest of what he does for free without much scaling, he can do it with a doran's shield on.

Also fizz is a fighter assassin, but really he's an evasive fighter champ, ekko 1.0

Astôlfo1 votes

Without high bases, tank Fizz cannot work without high % missing health scaling. Which it isn't, with multiple nerfs to him. His only good waveclear is his E. AKA, his only non-ultimate CC and gapcloser/escape outside of his situational Q.

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

well in that case why don't we give one to leblanc, she could use a way to farm under tower for free as well xD

edit

i.e. it should be champions and large monsters only perhaps

Astôlfo1 votes

Eh, TBF, Fizz's farming in early is already garbage-tier. Even if he were to be hit with nerfs for no reason, hitting his W waveclear makes the least sense.

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

I disagree based off what ive seen in higher level play, especially when he starts out with defensive items.

Rivuo3 votes

{quoted}

He's an assassin. That's why he has % missing health.

???????????

Assassins are NOT supposed to have % missing health.... Do you even read what you write?

Astôlfo2 votes

facepalm

Another delusional kid. Oh wait, it's ApexCH. Never mind.

Rivuo3 votes

{quoted}

facepalm

Another delusional kid. Oh wait, it's ApexCH. Never mind.

Uhh....... Ok.... So why doesnt Zed Ahri Kassadin LeblancRengar Talon Evelynn

have % missing health but fizz does..? Your argument makes no sense.

Astôlfo5 votes

Read Zed's passive buddy. Ahri's not an assassin. Kassadin is closer to a mage fighter/burst mage than an assassin, and he's extremely old anyways. LB is a burst mage that doubles as an assassin. For her, all her damage is locked into her Q. Rengar/Talon are exceptions. Evelynn isn't an assassin.

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

Kass is an assassin, highly mobile and has to choose the right time to go in.

May the evelyn relaunch be a success, although it was broken stun eve was her best form. Broken as hell though but this rework was pretty awful, i'd rather them just make her a melee carry instead of whatever the current one is.

But idk what's wrong with that guy above, missing hp IS something an assassin would want/have. The problem with fizz is that he has it as sustained damage which enables his ad/bruiser/tank builds. And sustained damage SHOULD NOT be on an assassin.

Assassins should be burst duelist who have "gated" damage, hence why I can see most of the assassin patch cleaning that up a bit.

Astôlfo1 votes

Yep. There are reasons why Fizz has DoT due to tower interactions, but it also lets him continuously poke. Like sure, his burst goes down as AD, but he can just go bruiser/tank and play a fighter style instead, which is hell, given his constant % missing health DoT procs and his E.

maikokk1 votes

correct on most of this, but evelyn IS an assasin. she doesnt need %missing health damage because she can stick to almost any champion and doesnt have to work around cooldowns often. %missing health is for making sure they die when you pick the right target and all in. also she has insane % current health burst damage tied to a potentially massive shield, which is strictly better in every case that doesnt involve a 10 health yasuo escaping

CasterGilgamesh1 votes

ahri was an assassin on release and for most people she still has an assassin like kinda play style Kass was always supposed to be an assassin Ev is an assassin in fact thats why she has a stealth

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