Removing the shield breaking portion of her passive and the disarm on her ultimate is what makes her actually able to duel most top laners such as Riven, Sion, Rumble, etc. Without this there's really nothing she can do top lane that another champion can't do better and increasing the damage on her ultimate and amplifying the slow simply make it more preferable against mid lane mages than top lane duelists and bruisers.
Hexs Fortune29 votesThe problem is they designed 
to be able to do it all:
Then, for the sake of balance, they had to nerf her numbers patch after patch to the point that she's been sitting at a 45 percent win rate
They should figure out some clear strengths and weaknesses for Irelia's kit and sharpen her identity towards those goals.
WoΘxer2 votesHer healing is straight shit, it helps only a little bit during laning phase. She got dumped from top to mid only now, good job Riot.
Votable Jester12 votesShe spams that heal a ton. It adds up.
Śhunpo1 votesYeah, and if you really want more healing just grab a Death's Dance 
.
Also run Domination secondary and watch the magic unfold.
WoΘxer1 votesWho the fk builds Dancer on Irelia?
Śhunpo1 votesMe, the item's fine. Anyways, Taste of Blood+Ravenous Hunter+Q's healing is a loooot of healing by itself once you kill 3+ creeps, and considering Irelia can decimate waves especially post Tiamat I'd say that you're undervaluing the healing.
Death by Glamour2 voteswe are going to have a repeat of this with sylas
Verxint3 votesRiot has had no concept of how to design weaknesses for years now.
kile1473 votesSame problem old Irelia had. There's a set of tools that all toplaners draw from, and you need to check certain boxes in order to be successful. Irelia more or less checks all of them, and the only way a good player can be beaten is by just getting out stat-checked.
AS I LAY FEEDING1 votes[{quoted}](name=Hexs Fortune,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Qw3EWAZd,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-01-16T07:00:56.787+0000)
The problem is they designed
- Durable through natural synergy with the Juggernaut item set
- Highly mobile
- High burst damage
- High sustain damage
- In kit hard CC
- Aoe Team FIght Ult
- In kit healing
- Strong defensive option in W
Then, for the sake of balance, they had to nerf her numbers patch after patch to the point that she's been sitting at a 45 percent win rate
They should figure out some clear strengths and weaknesses for Irelia's kit and sharpen her identity towards those goals.
The winrate dosent reflect that lol.
Iron Phantom8 votesI was debating this with my friend the other day, and the ulti changes basically solidifies her role in the midlane, it's basically had the opposite affect that riot wanted.
[sg-lux-2] I'm seriously confused by the changes.
Z3Sleeper8 votesDid they actually say they want her top? Cuz yeah, those are mid changes.
Saevum1 votesEven worse if she gets buffed again. Now that the irelia mains know how to mid with her, buffs wont do.
MLDzXnRRR6 votesIrelia was never a good toplaner after the rework. You can survive there only with high base hp stats or being ranged. She doesn't have them. Plus she can kind of fight Yasuo, Fizzes and Zeds etc (Talon should snowball on her, though)
Iron Phantom10 votesIrelia was never a good toplaner after the rework. You can survive there only with high base hp stats or being ranged. She doesn't have them. Plus she can kind of fight Yasuo, Fizzes and Zeds etc (Talon should snowball on her, though)
She was actually insanely good top when they first reworked her, but because she was strong they kept nerfing her patch after patch to the point she started strugging against brusiers, so people decided to play her mid instead and found great success because she can dumpster on mages and assassins early.
Z3Sleeper3 votesShe was only strong top cuz she was flat out broken. She was broken mid too but mid has more impact so people took her mid.
kingDeDeDarius3 votesIrelia was never a good toplaner after the rework. You can survive there only with high base hp stats or being ranged. She doesn't have them. Plus she can kind of fight Yasuo, Fizzes and Zeds etc (Talon should snowball on her, though)
LMAO wow. Just wow.
Crescent Dusk2 votesIrelia was never a good toplaner after the rework. You can survive there only with high base hp stats or being ranged. She doesn't have them. Plus she can kind of fight Yasuo, Fizzes and Zeds etc (Talon should snowball on her, though)
If she respects Talon lv2 and waits for lv3 with conqueror proceed one stun and talon is dead. Talon is made of paper and if she W's either the return blades from talon or his Q she will outdamage him handily.
It's the reason conqueror Yi shits on talon too on mid lane. Talon wants to start lv1-2 by poking with a couple of W's and then all inning at like 70-80% with ignite.
If you don't let him poke and extend the trades, you can kill him even by lv2 as strong autoattack champions with added burst like Yasuo, Yi, and Irelia will shit on Talon.
Śhunpo1 votesShe also outright wins level 1.
MLDzXnRRR1 votes[{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Qw3EWAZd,comment-id=00010003,timestamp=2019-01-16T19:53:24.858+0000)
If she respects Talon lv2 and waits for lv3 with conqueror proceed one stun and talon is dead. Talon is made of paper and if she W's either the return blades from talon or his Q she will outdamage him handily.
It's the reason conqueror Yi shits on talon too on mid lane. Talon wants to start lv1-2 by poking with a couple of W's and then all inning at like 70-80% with ignite.
If you don't let him poke and extend the trades, you can kill him even by lv2 as strong autoattack champions with added burst like Yasuo, Yi, and Irelia will shit on Talon.
Irelia is made of paper, she has the base stats of a minion... not Talon. She has to autoattack him to kill him regardless of what she lands, if she eats a Q crit by Talon, she is doneso, regardless of his passive or W poke... You are way overrating her, because you probably play her and don't see good Talons too much. Later in the game, he can't do much vs Irelia with Titanic and/or Steraks, but he will probably have mobis and snowballed all lanes... if not, he deserves to lose.
Crescent Dusk1 votesIrelia is made of paper, she has the base stats of a minion... not Talon. She has to autoattack him to kill him regardless of what she lands, if she eats a Q crit by Talon, she is doneso, regardless of his passive or W poke... You are way overrating her, because you probably play her and don't see good Talons too much. Later in the game, he can't do much vs Irelia with Titanic and/or Steraks, but he will probably have mobis and snowballed all lanes... if not, he deserves to lose.
I'm a Talon main. You don't know what you're talking about, Talon is made of paper as well, and if the WQ passive combo doesn't kill his target with ignite, he dies. That combo isn't killing anyone who isn't another assassin or mage in mid lane. Bruisers and fighters completely shit on Talon, be it Irelia, Garen, Darius, Urgot, and especially Fiora. Yi also shits on Talon mid since with conqueror up he virtually outbursts you, and if Yasuo extends the trade at lv2 he also will get first blood over Talon.
People who die to Talon are people who let him poke them with W before an all in and don't respect that lv2. After that, a single back and a cloth armor later and Talon starts to lose lane immediately.
Talon is a terrible laning champion. He gets outranged by most competitive mages, and he loses to Zed, Fizz, and Ekko past 6. If he snowballed lanes, it's because you fed him at lv2. He also gets stomped hard by Leblanc or any champion that can juke his return rake and deny him his passive proc to begin with. A single Anivia Q or any timed stun after Talon Q's in will deny him the passive, and after the passive wears off and his W is on cd Talon can't do jackshit against hard engage champs.
Talon is only "good" (and by good, I mean less winrate than Zed and Katarina, supposedly terrible champs with far harder mechanics) by buying Tiamat and invading enemy jungle with his jungler. If you get a LeBlanc or Oriana or aggressive Zed by lv3 they won't let you free roam and they will starve you out of gold in lane since you'll only be able to farm with W or accept losing half your health to poke combos by the vast majority of champions with a range greater than Talon's 575 Q (read, 95%+ of midlaners).
MLDzXnRRR1 votes[{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Qw3EWAZd,comment-id=0001000300010000,timestamp=2019-01-17T23:04:50.605+0000)
I'm a Talon main. You don't know what you're talking about, Talon is made of paper as well, and if the WQ passive combo doesn't kill his target with ignite, he dies. That combo isn't killing anyone who isn't another assassin or mage in mid lane. Bruisers and fighters completely shit on Talon, be it Irelia, Garen, Darius, Urgot, and especially Fiora. Yi also shits on Talon mid since with conqueror up he virtually outbursts you, and if Yasuo extends the trade at lv2 he also will get first blood over Talon.
People who die to Talon are people who let him poke them with W before an all in and don't respect that lv2. After that, a single back and a cloth armor later and Talon starts to lose lane immediately.
Talon is a terrible laning champion. He gets outranged by most competitive mages, and he loses to Zed, Fizz, and Ekko past 6. If he snowballed lanes, it's because you fed him at lv2. He also gets stomped hard by Leblanc or any champion that can juke his return rake and deny him his passive proc to begin with. A single Anivia Q or any timed stun after Talon Q's in will deny him the passive, and after the passive wears off and his W is on cd Talon can't do jackshit against hard engage champs.
Talon is only "good" (and by good, I mean less winrate than Zed and Katarina, supposedly terrible champs with far harder mechanics) by buying Tiamat and invading enemy jungle with his jungler. If you get a LeBlanc or Oriana or aggressive Zed by lv3 they won't let you free roam and they will starve you out of gold in lane since you'll only be able to farm with W or accept losing half your health to poke combos by the vast majority of champions with a range greater than Talon's 575 Q (read, 95%+ of midlaners).
Dude, go to lolwiki and check their base stats, while they are somewhat similar early (he has a little more hp, she a little more armor), he ends up way tankier than her (like 150 more hp, more armor and MR; also Zed is less tanky than him). If his base AS wasn't such garbage, he would have been end up as a good bruiser/jungler probably. We were not talking about Talon vs world, but Talon vs Irelia... If you die to her early, you're bad, wow... About Talon vs Yi (idk why 2 people mention him), I'm playing mainly Yi and Trynda these days and know that he can beat him, but that's because of meditate's broken healing and damage reduction. Yi can probably 1v2 Talon and his jungler too, if it's some crap without CC like Nida. And conqueror is beyond bad on him especially vs assassins, sorry. I would rather get anything else, maybe PTA. Conqueror can be quite decent vs stacked armor/tanks, but in many games Yi ends up with pathetic values of converted damage to true with that rune, because you mainly try to backdoor and farm around the map, because you will get instagibbed in teamfights, plus needs stacking, so it's not reliable at all and not worth getting in most cases, despite boards thinking it's the best rune all the time. I've seen many Talons taking him even top and snowballing hard on fighters - you are right that he will have hard time vs Darius and other juggernauts, but light fighters - Fiora etc are not unbeatable.
Crescent Dusk1 votesDude, go to lolwiki and check their base stats, while they are somewhat similar early (he has a little more hp, she a little more armor), he ends up way tankier than her (like 150 more hp, more armor and MR; also Zed is less tanky than him). If his base AS wasn't such garbage, he would have been end up as a good bruiser/jungler probably. We were not talking about Talon vs world, but Talon vs Irelia... If you die to her early, you're bad, wow... About Talon vs Yi (idk why 2 people mention him), I'm playing mainly Yi and Trynda these days and know that he can beat him, but that's because of meditate's broken healing and damage reduction. Yi can probably 1v2 Talon and his jungler too, if it's some crap without CC like Nida. And conqueror is beyond bad on him especially vs assassins, sorry. I would rather get anything else, maybe PTA. Conqueror can be quite decent vs stacked armor/tanks, but in many games Yi ends up with pathetic values of converted damage to true with that rune, because you mainly try to backdoor and farm around the map, because you will get instagibbed in teamfights, plus needs stacking, so it's not reliable at all and not worth getting in most cases, despite boards thinking it's the best rune all the time. I've seen many Talons taking him even top and snowballing hard on fighters - you are right that he will have hard time vs Darius and other juggernauts, but light fighters - Fiora etc are not unbeatable.
A Fiora that times her parry for a return rake or Q will pretty much always dumpster Talon in lane. Look up Eoba (highest rated NA Talon) and watch his Fiora matches. Talon wins by roaming, especially invades on enemy jungler. Watch TF Blade's Irelia or ICU against the top rated Talons.
Talon has a single danger point at lv2 and if he doesn't get first blood after lv3 he pretty much starts losing lane priority to almost all match ups except immobile mages.
MLDzXnRRR1 votes[{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Qw3EWAZd,comment-id=000100030001000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-19T00:03:54.443+0000)
A Fiora that times her parry for a return rake or Q will pretty much always dumpster Talon in lane. Look up Eoba (highest rated NA Talon) and watch his Fiora matches. Talon wins by roaming, especially invades on enemy jungler. Watch TF Blade's Irelia or ICU against the top rated Talons.
Talon has a single danger point at lv2 and if he doesn't get first blood after lv3 he pretty much starts losing lane priority to almost all match ups except immobile mages.
Fiora with good parry will probably kill 1v1 any champ in the game (except Yi probably, who can right click her faster than she - him; or ranged that sit outside the danger zone) and what? She is almost a certain loss for her team, because of no teamfight presence... (Even when she was considered overpowered, there were no high elo one trick Fioras in major regions, because you just can't win with that champion consistently)
Śhunpo1 votesShe's a good top laner now, players just need to play her properly~
ı Sona ı6 votesWhich is sad because that's how they showcased her beating that Riven.
Then again I rarely lose to Irelia top lanes so Iunno what ya'll doing wrong.
[sg-lulu] [sona-playing]
y0r1ck1 votesPicking yorick.
Hayaishi26 votesPoor Irelia. Riot can't design balanced champions and now she'll suffer for it.
IG Ziko4 votesAnd people ask why do mages go support.
chipndip14 votesWaiting for people to realize Irelia's mid lane has been trash in solo queue ever since the -5 MS nerf they clown all the time.
Still waiting...
Moon Mom2 votesPeople honestly don't realize MS nerfs impact a champs ability to rotate. I agree with you 100000%.. and it frustrates me everyone on the boards believes otherwise.
3TWarrior1 votesthat was true a few years ago, but there have been too many changes to movement speed, mobility and most importantly DAMAGE to consider it much of a change
it MIGHT have a small impact for the sake of numbers, but it does not and will not prevent a champion from doing their job and if they are doing that job oppressively, they need changed
let's take malzahar. his ultimate is not the greatest thing to experience, but, it's single target, a channel that can be interrupted by crowd control or displacement, it can be cleansed, and most importantly, it is a self-induced root and stun...
Moon Mom1 votesNo. This is still true to this day. If you refuse to believe it I don't know what to tell you. There is no rune that grants Irelia mobility. The only thing that causes her to get faster is phage passive and dancing in a minion wave, which is getting gutted next patch.. the latter she can only do every so often. If the champ sucks at rotating and chasing it is a clear weakness that can be exploited.
3TWarrior1 votesit barely affects them at all now
the only reason movement speed nerfs used to mean something was because the other champion could potentially outrun them and get away
even at 295 movement speed compared to 300, it takes less than 1 second of difference to go from blue to red base corners...
it punishes you if you make a careless engage and the opponent gets away, but other than that, her gameplay is completely unaffected. You could even say that her Q allows her to travel faster when she can clear waves in seconds with it
I lit your baby3 voteshow's that removing her dmg output? Now a few top laners with shields going to tank 2-3 hits more, wowie.
Netorare3 votesRemove from mid.
General Matty2 votesRemove
Or just the game really.
ankoanko192 votes#REVERTIRELIA2019
Abibyama II1 votesApparently there's more changes coming
https://clips.twitch.tv/DoubtfulWealthyMonkeyArsonNoSexy
So the on hit heal from Q to passive plus more AS might help more in top lane than mid
ZackTheWaffleMan1 votesGood thing that Rumble can also go mid!
Anchorit Wracaj1 votesIrelia is hard to master,but once shes mastered shes deadly. Just watch TFblade how he plays her or Wickd on stream. To much people are hyped about Irelia,and they go straight inting and being useless.
Sewer Side1 votesWhat’s wrong with Irelia going mid primarily though?
Śhunpo1 votesI mean, I think Irelia's still going to be good regardless. Even while she's at a "43% win rate" I'm still doing incredibly well on her. She's going to remain a strong champion even after the nerfs, it's just that she won't be as much of a walking overloaded mess of a champion.
I also disagree with your opinions on the changes. The shield breaking portion of her passive was always a bonus, and it was Riot's way of saying "we're trying out a concept to see if we can counterplay shield metas in the future", her passive is already amazing as is. As for the disarm....I've never personally even used it for that, I use it for the damage, the mark(s) and the initial slow, and even then that in itself makes her ultimate incredible. It's similar to her previous ultimate in the fact that you toss it out when you feel it's the right time to all in.
Furthermore, she's still going to keep all of her mobility, her stun, her damage reduction and her bonus damage+attack speed from her passive. Those are already great for her. Although I'd personally keep the double damage to creeps on her Q, since that's kinda the direction they took her, to be a highly mobile champion in lane. Then again she's almost always going to be the one champ in the games you're in who will have the highest CS count consistently due to her Q spam with and without Tiamat/Hydra.
I don't think she's too much of an issue mid per say, it's just that she's designed to gutter-stomp melee champs, so subsequently she dumpsters assassins. But then mages rarely have the tools to keep her off them, so you have this situation where a champion designed to go top lane is able to outright demolish mid laners the moment she touches them once. That's my issue with her going mid, she's designed to go top lane. Riot needs to pick which lane Irelia is initially designed for and go from there, however removing overloaded aspects of her kit has to happen first and that's that.
Personally I don't even think she's bad top lane, at all. I actually prefer playing her top lane because it means I have a longer lane for Q chases and trades, I can 1v2 and 2v2 more often (which Irelia loves when she has creeps to work with), I'm less of a target if the opposing bot lane ever roams and I can almost always help out my jungler without my laner roaming down as well. I do think that top lane still does suit her more, however I will say she's stronger mid simply due to the fact that champs such as Darius and Garen don't exist within that lane.
That's my view on Irelia atm.
Glîtchy1 votesgonna be honest, I think she needed that nerf, because she was extremely oppressive to a large percentage of top lane to the point many couldn't fight her, a few examples being:
now yes some of these champs needed effective counters, but not a counter so strong as to say "haha fuck you, I win every damn time because I pressed R when you try to fall back or I trick shot ya with it"
so I do feel she's been put into a good position to receive another nerf.
and might I add Jax, Fiora, Trundle, Kled and Tryndamere are all perfect examples of champs who can't do ANYTHING without auto attacks cause their most notable forms of damage is actually their auto attacks, and don't function well at all without them.
WoΘxer1 votesNo she didn't not her ult disarm is the problem, and yet ppl here can't still figure out,
Q spam and marks makes her problematic.
Wrongly distributed nerfs gonna affect her even more now.
Glîtchy1 votesNo she didn't not her ult disarm is the problem, and yet ppl here can't still figure out,
Q spam and marks makes her problematic.
Wrongly distributed nerfs gonna affect her even more now.
trust me, Ik her disarm is one of the bigger issues but at this point I'll take whatever nerfs I can get on her.
Aatrox Eichmann1 voteslong overdue changes imo, however this may change her style of play, she is still the high burst mechanical bruiser with high mobility with a high skill ceiling as we've gotten to know her since her rework, but there is just so much extra shit on her that im surprised that they went unremoved for the longest time, not many champs have shields, except for toplaners or supports, and seeing toplane is where she was primarily designed for, lets not forget she is a yasuo whose kill combo starts at level one because of her braindead busted passive that equates to 2 triforce components worth of stats in under 2 seconds of prep, forcing you to give up some degree of lane pressure early despite laning a lategame monster. I'm glad she is getting unnecessary bullshit removed from her kit bit by bit. maybe soon we will see this type of development in akali, pyke, zoe and sylas. who are just chocked full of meaningless extra stats and capabilities that disguise the term "being broken" with "being fun/interesting" because why wouldn't you have fun bullying any other champ with 0 effort as a busted broken champ that they slowy nerf to the ground in over 5 months.
the 2018 reworks are major mistakes.
having CertainlyT being in charge of gameplay design is an even bigger mistake(even tho he wasnt behind irelia)
