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Zoe is one of those champions that has unnecessary add ons for no reason

Scorpio Szn··39 votes·8,904 views

For example.

Passive - Why does she need a free lich bane? This can be easily turned into something more utility oriented because her kit should punish her for missing her abilities.

Q - Why can this be used while cc'd?

W - Why does using summoners grant 3 orbs and movement speed to boot. In all honesty, if you're going for that annoying trickerster goddess just allow the movement speed (she should be that little girl running around the battlefield anyway + it rewards her for putting herself in harms way. The extra damage is not needed).

E - Why does this leave a trap when she misses her target (ESPECIALLY since it can travel indefinitely through terrain ... and grants bonus damage in the form of true damage).

Her R is the only skill that is moderately "fair".

It's like, I don't even know where to begin. Underneath all this topping bs lies a champion that could potentially be uncancerous to play against, but because CertaintlyT designed her she has extra shit for no reason (Like Yasuo's ultimate putting him outside of turret range if he decides to ult someone ... under their turret ... lmao).

29 Comments

hhaavviikk18 votes

Welcome to champions designed by CertainlyT, have an unpleasant stay

Rathar Dashing12 votes

Since when does a champion having a passive equal an unnecessary add-on?

Atmosphere14 votes

Go on YouTube or Reddit and search for Zoe passive kill montages. Once you get a couple items on Zoe, you don't have to land ANY skillshots to get kills. Her passive autos and W can 100-0 squishy champs. Her passive isn't the problem: its how much free damage it gives that screws everything up. Lux has a more fair version of the passive. Land a skillshot, THEN get the empowered auto. You don't get to freely poke with empowered autos and get kills despite missing everything.

wildfox994 votes

give her passive a CD or make it like lux one,you can use it only after you hit someone (so it makes more sense for her W proccing her passive)

Atmosphere1 votes

Sounds fair

Votable Jester1 votes

Then nerf the damage (I think W damage is what should be nerfed more than passive though).

Also her passive is used in her combo, E -> Q -> run -> Q -> R -> auto.

Atmosphere1 votes

Unless you're super lucky, her W isn't as spammable as her passive is. Also, if I remember right, her passive has a higher AP ratio than her W (though I may be wrong). Nerfing the W would be a start, but her passive needs to be gutted or reworked.

Votable Jester1 votes

Her passive is an actually active part of her kit that requires timing her abilities a bit and not just facerolling though. Her W will just hit them if they're in the general vicinity.

The current nerfs on the pbe may be ok. I'm fine with some nerfing to her passive, but I think the bulk of the nerf should be to W damage.

Kelg8 votes

It's called an overloaded kit, and it's a staple of CertainlyT champs.

TitanAnteus7 votes

I'll answer. Q - It's the design of multicast spells. If you stun Syndra mid ult, you're still going to see her cast animation and see her use her abilities. When Zoe launches the first Q, the abilities already out. If you stun Xerath mid cast start, it won't stop it from going off. If you stun Vlad mid cast it'll still go off. W - This is because not all summoners are offensive. Adding the movement speed on top of it adds skill expression allowing you to reposition yourself. If you get exhaust for instance, you can exhaust with W, reposition yourself to land your E and follow up with a combo. None of this would be possible w/o those small addons to the spell. The balls do almost no damage and the movement speed is negligible. E - Most mages have some way to zone, Xerath Q, Velkoz splash knock-up. This is a good way to add zoning to her kit. I think the through the walls part of the E was to allow for her to be a jungle. It used to be that her E got a cooldown reset for landing on minions. So they definitely wanted to see her jungle as well. Nobody's using her in that capacity though.

Slythion16 votes

Your explanation for Q is wrong and with faulty comparisons because her Q is a 2-cast spell. Your example of Syndra, Xerath (doesn't his Q get cancelled while charging up anyways??), and Vlad all only have 1 cast or button press which is "charged up" or just has a long delivery in Syndra's case

If you wanted to use an actual valid comparison, you don't need to look further than Anivia's and Velkoz's Q which are a legitimate 2-cast spell unless they time out. They cast Q once to send it out, and casts again to explode it. If they get stunned before the 2nd cast, the ability proceeds as if the second cast was opted out of. That's how Zoe's Q should function, because her Q is a 2 cast spell.

As for the W explanation...you only addressed the one thing OP said he was ok with. Literally said he's alright with the movement speed but the extra damage is unneeded.

And you'd think her splash damage Q would be viewed as her "zoning" tool given it's long delivery and easier comparison to both Velkoz and Xerath Q. I think her E seems much more comparable to Velkoz and Xerath E's, their only CC as long-range immobile mages. Unlike both, Zoe gets something for missing her E and unlike Xerath, she isn't punished for using E at short ranges.

TitanAnteus2 votes

It's her only damaging ability and only zones when it lands. Seriously look at other mages with more map control then her at the moment. It's why when she gets ganked after casting E she's dead. Xerath's got crazy range on his. Vlad's E is not just one cast. He can cast it again to set it off early. His Q is one cast though. He can second cast the E if he's stunned..

The W does barely any extra damage on its own. Go into practice tool. Take heal or flash or whatever and flash onto a caster minion. Look at how much the orbs provide in damage to a caster minion for yourself.

Doesn't Velkoz's E go straight through minions? Isn't Xerath's E on a 6 second cooldown rank 1, with barely any mana cost? Zoe Es and boom goes her mana, and the splash zone gets eaten by minions. The splash is not very strong in laning. It's only strong in the jungle.

HeimerLmao4 votes

1: Vlad's E is a channel. CC stops it and causes it to go off instantly. Same goes for things like Nunu's ult. Zoe's Q isn't a channel, it's a 2 time cast ability, which shouldn't be possible to use while CCd. Also "it's her only damage ability" isn't an excuse for that either. That's how stuns work. That's why they are a counter to high damage threats. They stop their damage and movement, allowing them to be picked off. Imagine if a stun didn't stop Vayne's autoattacks, cause they are her only damage option. 2: If her W does barely any extra damage, then why is it a thing? She already has a powerful ability just cause of the free summoners. 3: Xerath's E has a 13 second cd rank one, and I don't know where did you find that 6 seconds bullshit. Mana isn't a problem for Zoe past her lost chapter, and that's her first or second back. The splash may not be very strong in laning, it's still unnecesary. For example, we have Lux Q, which has similar purpose (setting up a high damage combo), she has to hit it, and while it does hit two targets, it doesn't have the wall-travelling range of Zoe's E. I think it would be a fair tradeoff, if not the trap part. It's literally a 4 second killzone for everyone that isn't a tank or a bruiser. You walk in? You are already dead. It doesn't make sense for a mage/assasin champion with high amount of burst to have this zone control, considering she also has mobility, range AND utility with free summoners and items.

Slythion1 votes

Gamomg already responded to you (I noticed you lack a response to it), but I wanted to point out that you still failed to address the two issues I mentioned about her E. Not only is it more forgiving if you miss, it's also more rewarding at point blank range.

IF you honestly believe every single one of these aspects of her kit are acceptable as a healthy design, not just to play as but to play against, then I'm at a loss for words.

LordGeovanni1 votes

Syndra ult isnt a multi cast spell bud its a single cast spell that cant activate during a stun or knock up after using q

mzicio6 votes

CertainlyT always adds a fuckton of safety nets to his champions to make them more appealing to new players.

Shmeeve5 votes

SHE CAN Q WHILE CC'D, THAT'S WHY HE STILL SOMEHOW USES IT WHILE KNOCKED UP WHEN I AM MALPHITE

nelogis3 votes

Can give you another one

R: Why does she go back even while cc'd by knockups/supressions?

Scorpio Szn4 votes

I honestly forgot about this one, she has so much shit it's hard to keep track.

Disulfiram1 votes

While annoying, this actually works against her: you can aim skillshots at her starting position and be almost garanteed to hit them.

Sire Hippington2 votes

I think the passive is fine, it rewards her to get close and weave AAs in her combo, cuaseing her to expose her self if she wants to max her damage. Main issue with it is that her damage overall is so overtuned that she never really has to take that risk since Q+E often is enough, and if not she only needs one passive+lichbane hit duering ult to overkill...

Q - Good question, only doublecast abillity that works duering CC, and also only such abillity that can proc spellblade(and her passive) on the second cast aswell.

W - Why does this spell exist anyway? It's hands down the most fail designed abillity ever and should nerver have come to live. It punishes oponents for useing core mechanics of the game(summoners/item-actives) and gives RNG based powerspikes in Lane. Ever single aspect of this abillity is toxic and it's absolutly disgusting that this ever was allowed to exist

E - Again, good question, why does this have the trap on top? Also, why does it 440+0.8 ap damage, hald of which beeing truedamage...that's pretty massive. With the bonus range through terrain it already is about the longest ranged CCs in the game(exept ashe's ult ans Jhins W), and it's also one of the most potent setup CCs with up to 50%slow for 2.2sec followed by 2sec hard CC. This should be enough to make it a stand out abillity.

AMADEUSdotEXE2 votes

So basicallly you're making another fucking post crying abbout Zoe because you can't learn to play against her. Board is full of rank hugging babies.

SweedishGunner1 votes

I agree with you but that's pretty rich coming from an Irelia main.

Scorpio Szn1 votes

Not necessarily an Irelia main (this isnt my main account)

SwiftCrane1 votes

It's insane how that man is still allowed to make champs without any form of oversight...

apollö1 votes

Zoe turned out absolutely horrible. If she isn't banned and the other team picks her, just dodge honestly

DarkinPrime1 votes

I have said it before, CertainlyT has designed the most annoying and obnoxious champions.

I would suggest Riot let him go, but they might ban me on the boards for it.

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

She has those addons because otherwise they'd have to put even more power into her Q. That's the problem with a champion that has only bread and butter damage ability.

Emerald Fang1 votes

Only the second cast of Q can be used. Also it isn't really that fast and you can sidestep it very easily if you have a dash (which virtually every champ in the meta does these days) Mobility is great to counter the ridiculous mobility from assassins that are rampant mid. Her E can only go through one piece of terrain and travels a very short distance after that so it's not hard to counter, just don't hug walls if you know she's around. It's like Vayne. Also hitting an E from 3000 units away means there's no way in hell she can follow up with a Q fast enough especially with merc treads. Also the hitbox is not that generous and there's a bug where the projectile will just phase through the target and not hit which is incredibly odd. Her R is arguably one of the most powerful parts of her kit, she can avoid and dodge basically any skillshot on an 11 or less second cooldown and costing only 50 mana. Also this + Q can be incredibly surprising if you use your ult right before the Q lands (suddenly extending the range).

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