Lucian at Release vs Lucian Now

MrSc0tty··2 votes·1,048 views

Release: Lucian has the potential to be pretty great, but his primary damage dealing method in lane is dodgeable and has a high mana cost so it needs to be timed carefully. Being a new release, Lucian has a low win rate.

"QoL" buff: makes Q undodgeable. Suddenly Lucian is the god of ADCs being the biggest carry lane bully in existence.

Subsequent patches: Riot nerfs his basic attack range, W, Q damage, Culling damage, and removes the slow shrug on E. Then they rework him. Q is still undodgeable. Lucian is still a god.

"Gwarsh guys, what do you think could be the problem causing him to be so imbalanced, Hyuck?"

10 Comments

MrSc0tty2 votes

So...ranged waveclear, free sheen effect on passive that works on towers, poke, permanent speed boost, and a dash to get out of trouble....

And his weakness is bad at sieges?

There is ONE other non-ADC in the game who has all that and can hope to match that siege potential, and his name is Ziggs and he gets Nerfed every other patch.

Siege with Miss Fortune, Varus, Ashe or Sivir and come back and tell me that bad at sieges is Lucian's weakness.

The Quiche1 votes

Yeah, maybe they could change it to work similar to Lissandra Q where hitting a unit extends the range, but now it's a skillshot. It might seem odd in the context of the skill being called lightslinger, but I feel like the skill itself is bad design. When he came out it was easily dodgeable, and now it always hits. And since it has no travel time, it can't be balanced this way.

Hyrum Graff1 votes

On one hand, I agree with you.

On the other, I'm OK with lucian being a god at lane bullying, bursting, and teamfights, as long as he also has something he's really bad at: taking towers.

They got a little closer to this with the last round of nerfs (mostly: range), because now he sucks at seiging, but he's still too good at taking towers when it's hard to contest.

I think if they changed his passive so it can't proc on towers, that would put him at a reasonable place.

12tales2 votes

Lucian has some of the strongest poke and waveclear of any ADC, and is also one of the hardest to catch out. Being bad at taking towers seems like a very unintuitive weakness for a champions that's otherwise almost perfectly suited for sieging.

Hyrum Graff1 votes

Being bad at seiging is his intended weakness, though, intuitive or not.

Maybe we need to have a discussion about what his weakness should be.

12tales1 votes

I agree with MrScotty here. Lucian's kit is almost perfectly suited to sieging turrets, probably to a greater degree than any other ADC (maybe Tristana). Watch Najin White Shield's games in the Korean Regional Qualifiers - their use of BT->Sheen rush Lucian highlights his incredible tower pushing capabilities very well. This is not a champion that could feasibly be bad at taking turrets without massive changes to hit kit.

Hyrum Graff1 votes

I'm not much of an LCS guy, so I'll just take your word for it. Since that's the case, what do you think Lucian's weakness should be?

12tales1 votes

I'd like to see his late game scaling a lot more dependent on early snowballs. Someone with a laning phase as dominant as Lucian's shouldn't be able to go even in lane and remain relevant in the late game. However, he currently offers such an insane amount of utility that he continues to offer a great deal to his team even while playing from behind.

To me, Lucian should be a champion that is most impactful when he's able to destroy bot turret and group in other lanes. If he loses lane or can't take turrets, he shouldn't be competitive with other ADCs.

MrBuffington2 votes

I think it's a good idea in theory, if you look at other early game champions (ie. Lee Sin, Pantheon), they have a hard time remaining relevant in the game if they don't snowball heavily in lane. I personally think there's something inherently flawed with the idea of an early game ADC; ADCs are naturally late game champions because of their item dependency.

If I remember correctly from the rework, Riot was trying to emphasize short range as Lucian's weakness, where this is meant to justify the massive amount of mobility he has (because short range plus high mobility has never been a problem in the past, right Kassadin/Yasuo/Riven?). They wanted him to play like a John Woo movie; basically it sounded to me like they were trying to make a Vayne with a strong early game, long range spells, burst, waveclear, and is good in teamfights (read: a Vayne without weakness).

To be fair, the range reduction did make him a tad more vulnerable, but he's too well rounded in every other area for it to matter too much, imo, and I don't think they should turn him into Urgot. I think he just needs a niche; right now he's sort of the default best pick unless you're running a specific comp around a particular ADC (ie. Kog'Maw, Tristana, etc).

I think it might be good to cut his waveclear, make his Q actually lose damage when it hits more than one target (like Caitlyn's Q or Ezreal's ult), make his ult deal less damage (instead of freaking quadruple damage, like, wtf) to minions or have a longer cooldown so he can't automatically clear every wave when sieging (it's a 50 second cooldown at lvl 16, where, with CDR Lucian builds, he can have it up for every wave). Doing so would make him naturally less relevant in the late game, making him more like Lee Sin where he has to press for early advantages and try to win early.

PainWoLove1 votes

honestly they gutted lucian.. he's balanced from where he used to be. with the right support/adc match up shouldn't have a problem.

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