Hard Truth: Matchmaking will never be “good” and you wouldn’t want it to be anyway.

Jamaree··23 votes·9,768 views

Look guys, matchmaking is never going to be “good”, matchmaking will never be at a point where both sides are all evenly matched up, matchmaking has never been like that either and the only reason it seemed like that is because games were longer thus letting both sides reach that point of being even.

Let’s break down each point however and explain.

First off, why matchmaking will never be good. When you think of good matchmaking, you lose likely think of a scenario where both teams are evenly matched and only the tiniest mistake at the very end decides the winner or, where you just win every game because you only get good players which is equally unrealistic.

“No, I just want games with no feeders.”

Impossible, why? Because everyone feeds literally everyone, look at your own match history, are you going to sit here and lie to me and say there hasn’t been a single game where you just shit the bed, where you stumbled only for it to snowball into a slow session of being dead weight? Did you mean to do it? No. Maybe you were being camped, maybe the opponents were purposely trying to tilt you, or you were simply having a bad game. Now think of the inverse and put that person who did poorly do you honestly think they were purposely trying to sabotage you? Why is it never a case of bad matchmaking when you are the one doing poorly but it is when your allies are?

So is the matchmaking good when you do well and win, is it bad when you lose then? Is matchmaking good when you feed but get carried, but bad when you do well and lose then? That leads into another point, what about those games were you do insanely well? Where the spirit of Faker guides your every click? Where you don’t miss a single cs, your positioning is perfect, and you snowball on your lane opponent? Is that good or bad matchmaking because depending on the side you are on that idea will change.

Second main point, another problem with matchmaking is humans themselves. Humans aren’t consistent at all. As a species we don’t do everything the exact same way every day in anything. In the case of this game, we can’t even cs consistently, some games you won’t miss any and then the exact next game with the same champion you will miss half the cs. One game a player will carry and then the exact next one, they feed which feeds into the cycle of matchmaking being shit.

Third and final main point, if matchmaking was “good”, a massive amount of players would hate it and elo hell would actually be real then. Now let’s assume that by some impossibility that no team based game where you get random players has ever be able to do, make a perfect matchmaking where players always played perfectly every game eventually, players will reach a plateau. Most people aren’t as good as they think they are. The players who are actually miles above skill wise where they are will effortlessly carry themselves out. Top laners will split to nexus, mids will win mid then roam and spread their lead across the team, jungles will counter jungle and deny the opponent all objectives and the bot carry will snowball and easily 2 vs 4 when they get ganked.

It is why you see challenger and master players who do unranked to challenger vids effortlessly carry themselves only losing one or two games during that time.

“Well what about those losses?”

Yeah, they will have ONE game where their allies are simply too heavy and can’t 1 vs 9, and the other 99 games, blind stomps.

Back on point, in the perfect matchmaking scenario, you will eventually hit a point of plateau, where because you are at that point where your current skill isn’t good enough to go higher, putting you in your own personal elo hell until you improve that tiny bit only to get to the next plateau where the cycle continues.

“Well what about my teammates then? How would it be my fault?”

Because in this world of perfect matchmaking, they would be in the same boat with the system putting them in place until they also improve. If matchmaking was perfect, players would hate it for the reason of being told how good they actually are.

Does this mean I think current matchmaking is good? God no, it can always do with improvements, for one, MMR needs to not be hidden and/or rank actually meaning something. As it currently is, your actual rank means shit all besides e peen and whether you get free loot. It would lead to at least some eased frustration if a player lost and saw the players they were with were actually in their rank or MMR rather then being gold, losing and seeing they had a bronze on their team but not knowing it was because their mmr was higher or their personal mmr was low.

“Well then why doesn’t Riot include a system where I can do well and still get points?”

Because stat padding and supports will be selected even less then then they are now. “Well, my team is losing, fuck trying to do the smart thing like trying to get objectives to get back in the game, I’m just gonna bush camp and catch out people to pad my score as much as possible.” It’s a team game, you win or lose as a team. Just because Kyrie, or Lebron scored 50 points, doesn’t mean they should win the game, same applies here. If you don’t want the factor of randoms, find and make a team.

TL DR Matchmaking will never be “good” because everyone feeds including you and humans aren’t consistent and if it was “good”, you would be at a plateau of skill and stuck there for however long it takes for you to actually improve. Matchmaking does need work though.

89 Comments

Rins Thigh Socks12 votes

No you don't understand, this my elo story and I'm the protagonist and all these extras are holding me back!

Nobody in Silver knows how to play except for me...

Jamaree2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ahri Lover Rock,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QpnIkzQp,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-07-23T22:17:00.037+0000)

No you don't understand, this my elo story and I'm the protagonist and all these extras are holding me back!

Nobody in Silver knows how to play except for me...

Ah shit, sorry fam, I hate when side characters try to muscle in on the main Character’s story

Rins Thigh Socks2 votes

{quoted}

Ah shit, sorry fam, I hate when side characters try to muscle in on the main Character’s story

And this is even my climbing arc [sg-shisa]

Whisper878 votes

Literally my only problems with matchmaking is the implementation of win/loss streaks.

Matchmaking needs to be based solely on MMR - because as you said no one is perfect. Everyone has peaks and troughs.

By Riot stepping in and intentionally sandbagging someone on a win streak with tilted players, they are creating an artificial environment because all of the sudden this person is surrounded by tilted players. And to that point Riot has specifically said they don't want LOL to be a game where someone can expect to solo carry games reliably. So why would you create an environment where someone has to do so in order to keep climbing? You might very well be punishing someone who finally did break out of their plateau.

It works the other way around too. If someone is plummeting in ELO, they need to figure their shit out and take a break or recharge, not get a handicap from Riot.

five oh tree 8 votes

Thats a myth perpetuated by this echo chamber of a forum.

Win streaks simply raise your mmr. They don't make you get matched with shitters. They don't lower the chances of you winning. They just raise the skill environment around you.

Jamaree7 votes

{quoted}

Literally my only problems with matchmaking is the implementation of win/loss streaks.

Matchmaking needs to be based solely on MMR - because as you said no one is perfect. Everyone has peaks and troughs.

By Riot stepping in and intentionally sandbagging someone on a win streak with tilted players, they are creating an artificial environment because all of the sudden this person is surrounded by tilted players. And to that point Riot has specifically said they don't want LOL to be a game where someone can expect to solo carry games reliably. So why would you create an environment where someone has to do so in order to keep climbing? You might very well be punishing someone who finally did break out of their plateau.

It works the other way around too. If someone is plummeting in ELO, they need to figure their shit out and take a break or recharge, not get a handicap from Riot.

Don’t think this is true either, Riot doesn’t purposely put you with bad players, win streaks happen but eventually they come to an end.

Whisper875 votes

I'm about 99% certain that there is a Riot post somewhere that confirms that as your win streak gets bigger and bigger the chances of you getting matched with players on your team who are on losing streaks increases.

I believe it's a mechanic to keep someone from getting lucky rapidly outgrowing their skill. But it's poorly designed.

Jamaree6 votes

{quoted}

I'm about 99% certain that there is a Riot post somewhere that confirms that as your win streak gets bigger and bigger the chances of you getting matched with players on your team who are on losing streaks increases.

I believe it's a mechanic to keep someone from getting lucky rapidly outgrowing their skill. But it's poorly designed.

Now is that because they implemented a system or because statistically it was bound to happen? I would very much like to see that post.

ChargeItDownMid6 votes

[deleted]

HalcyonDweller3 votes

That's exactly the problem, matchmaking would have to work 10 times as hard to set matches up so people who deserve to lose all wind up together. And the servers would have to do so much more processing to figure out how to team people up.

Cavesloth1 votes

I could believe that, if people were being matched with better opponents AND better teammates. But they are getting matched with better opponents and worst teammates. It may not be on purpose, just a result of the law of unintended consequences, or a flaw in their code, but either way they don't care, so any discussion about it is a moot point anyhow. Riot stopped giving a shit about the players quite some time ago, as long as morons spend money on it, they won't fix anything and the game will just keep getting worse.

HalcyonDweller3 votes

50% chance to win is not the same thing as 50% win rate. Win rate is the outcome of a match, while chance to win is the input to that match. They are very different things, and claiming that win-rate is the set-point that Riot uses is just blatantly wrong.

It balances matches for a 50% chance to win, because each team should have an even shot. What happens is that as you go on a win streak, your MMR begins to jump up more quickly than your actual skill level, and so you get matched into games where you are below the average skill level of everyone there. That's why it feels so out of your hands when a win streak ends, because the other players' mistakes had more of an impact on the game then your own skill.

Tomoe Gozen1 votes

https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2018/02/dev-matchmaking-real-talk/

That's not what Riot wrote in their dev diary 5 months ago. Here's a snippet from the post:

Q: WHY DO I GET WORSE PEOPLE IN MY GAMES WHEN I’M ON A HOT STREAK AND TRYING TO CLIMB?

A: This is pretty much an urban myth. Mostly.

There’s nothing in the MMR system that forces you to have lower-skill teammates or disproportionately higher-skill opponents. We expect every game you play to have a 50 +/-1% chance of your team destroying the Nexus.

As your MMR goes up, you’ll stop being the “standout” player and your teammates’ skills will be higher. This can also happen to anyone else in the game, which can give the impression that you have “worse” teammates, when really they might just be newcomers to your skill bracket.

Even if it all goes wrong and you feel like your teammates have been letting you down, you can make use of systems like demotion protection and promo helper to prevent you from being punished for a few “unlucky” games. We think this is the right tradeoff compared to having a volatile rank—being demoted feels rough, and reaching a tier should be a decent indication that you can play at that level.

— Riot Gortok, Designer, Get in Game Team

Blades in Exile1 votes

{quoted}

I'm about 99% certain that there is a Riot post somewhere that confirms that as your win streak gets bigger and bigger the chances of you getting matched with players on your team who are on losing streaks increases.

I believe it's a mechanic to keep someone from getting lucky rapidly outgrowing their skill. But it's poorly designed.

Think you can find a quote? I really doubt any rioter said something even close to that or put it in the game.

ZephyrDrake5 votes

{quoted}

Literally my only problems with matchmaking is the implementation of win/loss streaks.

Matchmaking needs to be based solely on MMR - because as you said no one is perfect. Everyone has peaks and troughs.

By Riot stepping in and intentionally sandbagging someone on a win streak with tilted players, they are creating an artificial environment because all of the sudden this person is surrounded by tilted players. And to that point Riot has specifically said they don't want LOL to be a game where someone can expect to solo carry games reliably. So why would you create an environment where someone has to do so in order to keep climbing? You might very well be punishing someone who finally did break out of their plateau.

It works the other way around too. If someone is plummeting in ELO, they need to figure their shit out and take a break or recharge, not get a handicap from Riot.

can you provide actual proof? no you can't. All you can say is "I was on a winning streak now i'm losing! rito is sabotaging me!" You win a lot then your MMR increases, which makes the matchmaking put you against better players since that is what your MMR says you should be playing against. Oh wait! you aren't that good so you lose a bunch of games until you go back to where you were MMR wise and then the vicious cycle repeats, of you winning games against people that you should be beating but losing to the people that you should be losing all while the system tries to put you into that perfect middle ground that is ALWAYS changing since everyone's skill keeps changing.

You need to stop with your conspiracy theories. Riot doesn't give anyone a handicap, people have bad games, people have insane games where they play perfectly, people have games where they play like monkeys. No system will ever be able to predict which games these conditions will happen.

Whisper871 votes

I'm pretty sure there is a red post out there confirming that large win streaks increases your chances of getting matched with players on losing streaks. I'm like 90% certain this is so, cuz I rememeber being mind boggled when I read it.

HalcyonDweller3 votes

I think I know the post you're talking about. You misread it. They were talking about the chance to win going into the match. 50% chance to win for each team, give or take 1% to make room for error and allow matchmaking to not cause queues to take forever.

It's not the same as 50% win rate.

HalcyonDweller4 votes

The additional computing power required to run the extra code just to calculate all of the extra info needed to forcibly give people winning or losing matches would be far too expensive for a business to maintain. For a single player it wouldn't weigh on the system too much to run the few extra lines of code, but multiply that by every user concurrently logged in and playing on your region's server at any given time. That's a lot of times to re-run the same lines of code. And besides, it would double queue times because the pools of players available to matchmaking would have to be split in two (people owed wins and people owed losses).

50% win rate is the outcome of the system, a byproduct. It's not a setpoint that Riot uses. With setpoints, you can tell the system what you want, in this case, to match players so that everyone has a 50% chance of winning, but it leaves out all sorts of important factors. So it fails to be accurate, and tends to over or under estimate players' skill levels. This leads to unintended imbalances in matchmaking, aka win and loss streaks. If you're playing at your actual skill level with people similar to you, you will have a 50% win rate because your chances of winning against people of the same skill level as you are 50/50.

It's the same as a control system, the system attempts to correct for the changes in your MMR by matching you with people it thinks are at your new skill level, but because your MMR is still changing (be it from a win streak, or a loss streak), it messes up and can over/under shoot, and then wind up putting you in a match you don't belong in. Now multiply that by 10 because there are 10 different players who's MMR may or may not accurately reflect their true skill level. To be honest, I'm surprised matchmaking works at all since things can get ten times as wonky.

Riot should be using PID control to more accurately predict people's skill level instead of whatever they're doing with MMR.

See here for an example of what your MMR would look like compared to your actual skill level. The colorful lines are examples of MMR as it changes over time, and the flat reference line is the setpoint (your new skill level / MMR) after a change has occurred. In reality your skill level is constantly changing and it won't look as flat, but the idea is to show how a system's outputs oscillate when responding to a change.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a3/PID_varyingP.jpg/320px-PID_varyingP.jpg

Phyuq Yiu5 votes

LOLs matchmaking is insane. It sucks how uncommon an interesting match is. It's about 35 min of waiting for the winning team to finish.

Akali is SO HOT5 votes

You should also note the queue times in a perfect matchmaking system. If the system was tuned to obsessively check for absolute perfection, then people would never be able to get into games. Even in Bronze and Silver, queue times would increase by a ton and high elo players would be in queue for hours and hours. Good luck every getting into a game at the challenger level. Would just be easier to get 9 other challenger players and play a custom game and send the results to Riot Support and ask them to increase and decrease MMR accordingly.

Making a matchmaking system that tries to make games as perfect as possible, but with some slight margin of error, it allows players to get into games fairly quickly while still having a fair game for the most part. The matchmaker isn't out to get you and make you go on massive losing streaks because you win a lot. That's just something that naturally happens with a good, but not perfect matchmaker. You win some games and you lose some games. If you're good at this game, then you'll win more than you lose. If you're average, then you'll win and lose about the same number of games. If you're bad, then you'll lose more than you win. That's just how it works.

Unfortunately, most players just have a bad attitude and find anything at all to blame for losing a game and not being high elo like they deserve.

ZackTheWaffleMan2 votes

#NYEHH!

ΦmalphintoΦ1 votes

hey jamare, if someone is playing with a bad team, he will most likely feed, doesn't mean he feed because he is bad. i know i might be rude sorry so just to describe: Please! don't! spread! shit! when! your! eyes! just! fits! you!. thank you.

Jamaree1 votes

[{quoted}](name=x HIGH x,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QpnIkzQp,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2018-07-24T00:53:04.473+0000)

hey jamare, if someone is playing with a bad team, he will most likely feed, doesn't mean he feed because he is bad.

What?

i know i might be rude sorry so just to describe: Please! don't! spread! shit! when! your! eyes! just! fits! you!. thank you.

What?

ΦmalphintoΦ1 votes

{quoted}

What?

if im playing an Adc for example and i have a mental issues support, and my opponent are just cool, 100% ill not be better than the enemy Adc. if im playing a jungler for example and my team feed Even when i gave every single one of them a 2 kills, 100% ill lose and feed.

you were saying that everyone is feeding (excuses) not everyone is bad, i consider myself is very fuking good player, and yes Riot puts bad players with SAME mmr in the games of someone in winning streaks to make everyone enjoy the game.

What?

Heated. ALOT. by that i mean, (if you think something is wrong) make sure from it first, before you come and make a very long wrong post.

Jamaree2 votes

[{quoted}](name=x HIGH x,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QpnIkzQp,comment-id=000700000000,timestamp=2018-07-24T01:33:52.027+0000)

if im playing an Adc for example and i have a mental issues support, and my opponent are just cool, 100% ill not be better than the enemy Adc. if im playing a jungler for example and my team feed Even when i gave every single one of them a 2 kills, 100% ill lose and feed.

you were saying that everyone is feeding (excuses) not everyone is bad, i consider myself is very fuking good player, and yes Riot puts bad players with SAME mmr in the games of someone in winning streaks to make everyone enjoy the game.

And the game you were 4/7 with Pantheon? Or the game you were 1/7 with Malphite with everyone doing better then you? Or your 11/15 Gragas game where no one else was feeding?

How about the 2/4 Teemo game where you got carried?

1/12 Caitlyn?

Or the 1/10 TF where you were once again the only one feeding?

Or the 2/14 TF game where you also got carried?

If you are a very fucking good player as you state, why do you have games like those?

ΦmalphintoΦ1 votes

[deleted]

Jamaree1 votes

[{quoted}](name=x HIGH x,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QpnIkzQp,comment-id=00070000000000000001,timestamp=2018-07-24T02:19:27.808+0000)

i will explain these games, just to know i don't give a fuck if you believe or even about your opinion, i do that for the sake of the truth no shit.

Again see how fucking toxic you are, gave more than 10 games, i will describe all of them to get your fuck off or to go fuck urself.

-The game i was 4/7 Pantheon, Ahri mid didn't help bot when Annie were all the time in botlane camping them Vi also if you look at Vi she was 2/5/2 at the end of the game, i have more farm than her as well, Xayah was 0/3/0, i came to handle that at lvl 5, yes she died 3 times in 5 minutes, the only one that was doing well is fiddle sticks in that game.

-The game i was 1/7 Malphite i died on first 3 minute from irelia, she came back and i killed her on my own, then i was farming under turret cause she had a lot of dmg, now rengar open ult when i was lvl 5, and she div killed me, again i came top made irelia almost 10% hp and rengar killed me again, jax didn't come top for almost 17 minutes, just because i told him (i got camped) he went mad and didn't visit me top in once, (the fact that i went afk in that game) we could have won if i didn't, but i went afk since every single one from my team were toxic mid, jg, adc, support, not considering or appreciating me.

-The game of 11/15 Gragas this was my first game in my life with Gragas, (thought it might be good with AP build) but it didn't since my AP build didn't help me a lot in that game, despite the fact that i did better than all of my team.

yeah this game i had a Lee Sin top a counter to teemo, i tried as well to farm he was 1 shotting me at lvl 3 with a couple of combos + ignite so what i got carried? what is the problem? i didn't play poorly despite the fact that Lee Sin is a counter to teemo i could have went 0/10 if i played like an ass.

1/12 Caitlyn that game i had a toxic brand support that missing all of his skill shots 100% mana lost he was at 0% mana when he didn't place a single skill shots on the enemys, and when i told him to don't waste his mana if its not gonna be a skill shot, he got mad and start wasting minions, i left lane it was unplayable, i went top and mid, and everywhere? what is your problem? i didn't have a clean game to judge me here, i couldnt farm i lost my turret first 9 minute of the game didn't even play the game, if you look (but u dont have eyes) not insulting but if you looked at my match history you see historic score but you only go for 1/12 like it was a real game, you are just dumb. i believe that.

3/12/2 camille - 9/7/1 Renekton and yeah absolutely i should carry hard my team and destroy Garen and Hecarim on my own as TF, Holy fuck do you even consider to use ur brain? stupid.

got carried? no maybe u can suck dick at this point, i made my adc 13/6/15 if he had a bad lane AS ezreal, he wont go that score, + i made a lot of outplay to support all of my team, i got 2 kills 11 assist, despite the fact that i was (Supporting) not getting (Assistance) when i stun someone till my team finish killing the other one, i have assisted that kill but it didn't count i was busy stunning other danger opponents. still stupid move from you.

because i fuck you, thats why you don't understand because you are acting like a dick. i showed you a 10 games stats just to get ur fuck off and to get ur shit together.

[{quoted}](name=x HIGH x,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QpnIkzQp,comment-id=00070000000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-24T01:52:34.640+0000)

why are you talking like this, do you want my answers back to you, or do you just want to trash talk? cause i remember every single fucking game from them.

but i mean, if you are going to be rude, fuck it, not worth the shit.

Edit: you can prove shit, every single one of those games has a different story all you can see is score, you don't know anything else huh? but still you are more into trash talk than to know what was happening. just disgusting tbh.

My point is that everyone feeds, you have a story for everyone of your cases of bad games to not be your fault, why does this not apply to others having bad games?

ΦmalphintoΦ1 votes

{quoted}

My point is that every feeds, you have a story for everyone of your cases of bad games, why does this not apply to others having bad games?

because im not bad player, why do you think i should agree? denying the truth and telling a lie that these games were my bad? i says teemo game i got carried (didn't deny that LeeSin were destroying me but still i was really useful and i was good) the malphite game i said irelia got me on first blood (i didn't lie) the fact i killed her after i came directly to lane, but later ranger camped me for more than 20 minute in the TOP turret, no one came to help me, they were toxic so i went afk.

i mean, ( i really dont have to lie here ) if you want me to be honest, i will be, im not a bad player, and there is a lot of bad players in this game.

despite the fact that specially in my MMR level there is a lot bad players than good ones.

  • it does not apply to others because the bad players are more than the good ones, i can say 20% are quit good, and 80% are extremely bad sometimes.
Jamaree1 votes

[{quoted}](name=x HIGH x,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QpnIkzQp,comment-id=0007000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2018-07-24T02:33:32.928+0000)

because im not bad player, why do you think i should agree? denying the truth and telling a lie that these games were my bad?

I didn't say you were a bad player, where in any of this did I say you were a bad player?

i says teemo game i got carried (didn't deny that LeeSin were destroying me but still i was really useful and i was good) the malphite game i said irelia got me on first blood (i didn't lie) the fact i killed her after i came directly to lane, but later ranger camped me for more than 20 minute in the TOP turret, no one came to help me, they were toxic so i went afk.

i mean, ( i really dont have to lie here ) if you want me to be honest, i will be, im not a bad player, and there is a lot of bad players in this game.

I ask again, when and where did I say you were a bad player?

despite the fact that specially in my MMR level there is a lot bad players than good ones.

  • it does not apply to others because the bad players are more than the good ones, i can say 20% are quit good, and 80% are extremely bad sometimes.

I didn't say you were bad, I haven't called anyone bad, I said that everyone has bad games, everyone, literally everyone, including you, or are you going to tell me that out of the likely hundreds of LoL games you have played, there hasn't been a single game where the blame for the loss is on you and only you. Are you going to tell me that you have somehow achieved a feat that not even pros, that not even Faker has achieved?

ΦmalphintoΦ1 votes

{quoted}

I didn't say you were a bad player, where in any of this did I say you were a bad player?

I ask again, when and where did I say you were a bad player?

I didn't say you were bad, I haven't called anyone bad, I said that everyone has bad games, everyone, literally everyone, including you, or are you going to tell me that out of the likely hundreds of LoL games you have played, there hasn't been a single game where the blame for the loss is on you and only you. Are you going to tell me that you have somehow achieved a feat that not even pros, that not even Faker has achieved?

Again, and please understand this. cause im done after.

The games that was absolutely my fault, these are the games that i lost hard to my lane opponent, most likely they will be Zed, Ahri as i can remember, (i mean it is my mistake when i lose my lane HARD to my opponent and make them get fed).

even though they are still very low number over all.

Now and last likely, i want to say there is a difference from losing a (solo lane hard) and doing bad decisions in game. people that are doing bad decisions in game are bad players. people that are doing mistakes cannot be called a bad players (mistakes = earned experience). difference.

ZephyrDrake1 votes

[{quoted}](name=x HIGH x,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QpnIkzQp,comment-id=000700000000000000010000000000000001,timestamp=2018-07-24T02:59:58.671+0000)

Again, and please understand this. cause im done after.

The games that was absolutely my fault, these are the games that i lost hard to my lane opponent, most likely they will be Zed, Ahri as i can remember, (i mean it is my mistake when i lose my lane HARD to my opponent and make them get fed).

even though they are still very low number over all.

Now and last likely, i want to say there is a different from losing a (solo lane hard) and doing bad decisions in game. people that are doing bad decisions in game are bad players. people that are doing mistakes cannot be called a bad players (mistakes = earned experience). difference.

"when I do it i am not a bad player but when everyone else does it they are a bad player!"

that is literally how you are sounding. If you lost your match hard, that must mean that you must have been doing terrible decisions whose result was you losing horribly. Sorry but mistakes are BAD DECISIONS! that is what a mistake is in this game. You do something you wasn't supposed to be doing? you made a mistake/bad decision. Don't come here trying to differentiate between the two just so you can excuse yourself. There is no difference between someone who is behind and is building nothing but damage items and goes to farm on their own just to get destroyed by the enemy assassin and someone who decided to overextend for a bit too long in lane. You are doing a bad decision/mistake

Rins Thigh Socks2 votes

[{quoted}](name=x HIGH x,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QpnIkzQp,comment-id=00070000000000000001,timestamp=2018-07-24T02:19:27.808+0000)

1/12 Caitlyn that game i had a toxic brand support that missing all of his skill shots 100% mana lost he was at 0% mana when he didn't place a single skill shots on the enemys, and when i told him to don't waste his mana if its not gonna be a skill shot, he got mad and start wasting minions, i left lane it was unplayable, i went top and mid, and everywhere? what is your problem? i didn't have a clean game to judge me here, i couldnt farm i lost my turret first 9 minute of the game didn't even play the game, if you look (but u dont have eyes) not insulting but if you looked at my match history you see historic score but you only go for 1/12 like it was a real game, you are just dumb. i believe that.

I don't care how poorly your team did you literally got less than 2 cs per minute. IMO that's tantamount to trolling and no amount of excuses you can make will make me believe you're anything BUT the bad player you keep complaining about.

ΦmalphintoΦ1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ahri Lover Rock,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QpnIkzQp,comment-id=000700000000000000010001,timestamp=2018-07-24T02:33:50.669+0000)

I don't care how poorly your team did you literally got less than 2 cs per minute. IMO that's tantamount to trolling and no amount of excuses you can make will make me believe you're anything BUT the bad player you keep complaining about.

problem that you don't understand, if you understand it could have a good conversation we make here.

  • you are saying excuses (but its not excuses) why do i have to prove myself? the games proves? the game proves nothing, just numbers, that game we got stomped from all lanes, i lost lane at 7 minute i didn't have a single CS in that game, it was GG my team did no surrender so i went to do anything ( i wasnt playing ) ( i wasnt trolling ) it was lost, every single one knows that, and Riot wont ban someone for having a bad game (having a bad game doesnt make it my fault). as you can see it was due lane, and the story about it is not a fake one too.

you really need to change your idea about the point of view. if someone sucks in my team, doesnt mean i did poorly in that game. despite the fact that its a team game, and every single one of your team will make ur score goes higher or lower, im not a pussy is going to watch my team in team fights and go only for kills.

Rins Thigh Socks2 votes

[{quoted}](name=x HIGH x,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QpnIkzQp,comment-id=0007000000000000000100010000,timestamp=2018-07-24T02:39:14.939+0000)

problem that you don't understand, if you understand it could have a good conversation we make here.

  • you are saying excuses (but its not excuses) why do i have to prove myself? the games proves? the game proves nothing, just numbers, that game we got stomped from all lanes, i lost lane at 7 minute i didn't have a single CS in that game, it was GG my team did no surrender so i went to do anything ( i wasnt playing ) ( i wasnt trolling ) it was lost, every single one knows that, and Riot wont ban someone for having a bad game (having a bad game doesnt make it my fault). as you can see it was due lane, and the story about it is not a fake one too.

you really need to change your idea about the point of view. if someone sucks in my team, doesnt mean i did poorly in that game. despite the fact that its a team game, and every single one of your team will make ur score goes higher or lower, im not a pussy is going to watch my team in team fights and go only for kills.

I'm high diamond. I don't need to change my point of view. You need to change yours.

You got 2 cs a minute as adc, which is incomprehensibly bad. You consistently get values such as 3 or 4 cs a minute, which is extremely terrible. You are not a good player, you're a bad player, and you won't improve until YOU change YOUR perspective.

Don't give me excuses. I'm not intent on reading any more after this one. Fix your shit and stop acting like some untouchable saint that's not responsible for anything you did wrong because your team did worse.

ΦmalphintoΦ1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ahri Lover Rock,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QpnIkzQp,comment-id=00070000000000000001000100000000,timestamp=2018-07-24T02:56:33.857+0000)

I'm high diamond. I don't need to change my point of view. You need to change yours.

You got 2 cs a minute as adc, which is incomprehensibly bad. You consistently get values such as 3 or 4 cs a minute, which is extremely terrible. You are not a good player, you're a bad player, and you won't improve until YOU change YOUR perspective.

Don't give me excuses. I'm not intent on reading any more after this one. Fix your shit and stop acting like some untouchable saint that's not responsible for anything you did wrong because your team did worse.

you are demanding a lot, stop crying, you are bad. you have a level of 35 that too afraid to play more games? why are you crying so hard?.

seriously level 35? holy bad ass.

Rins Thigh Socks1 votes

[{quoted}](name=x HIGH x,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QpnIkzQp,comment-id=000700000000000000010001000000000001,timestamp=2018-07-24T03:03:23.151+0000)

you are demanding a lot, stop crying, you are bad. you have a level of 35 that too afraid to play more games? why are you crying so hard?.

seriously level 35? holy bad ass.

If you're gonna be so kind as to look me up, at least exercise a little logic.

25-15 in Diamond 4 promos with a extremely sporadic games just under a month apart - it's obviously a smurf account. I use it to practice LB and then post on boards.

I've hit Masters on my main. It's from that experience that i know you're not D3. The three things that prove that to me are

  1. Your cs values and how much you feed against low level players are extremely telling.

  2. You take your normal games seriously ROFL

  3. High elo players are at least moderately literate. Even the EUW posters here. You're posting simple sentences and I can barely understand what you're saying.

ΦmalphintoΦ1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ahri Lover Rock,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QpnIkzQp,comment-id=0007000000000000000100010000000000010000,timestamp=2018-07-24T03:09:47.080+0000)

If you're gonna be so kind as to look me up, at least exercise a little logic.

25-15 in Diamond 4 promos with a extremely sporadic games just under a month apart - it's obviously a smurf account. I use it to practice LB and then post on boards.

I've hit Masters on my main. It's from that experience that i know you're not D3. The three things that prove that to me are

  1. Your cs values and how much you feed against low level players are extremely telling.

  2. You take your normal games seriously ROFL

  3. High elo players are at least moderately literate. Even the EUW posters here. You're posting simple sentences and I can barely understand what you're saying.

first my English is bad, second im Diamond 3 i get it only from 300 wins, lastly please because im going to go off now, please don't cry ok? i know butt hurt, but its none of my problem that you are heating about it.

you say my cs values, and that i feed bla bla, and then saying that i take normal games seriously, yeah absolutely im not playing for fun do i look like a one that playing for fun? i will leave that to you.

go rage on some ranked games, while i enjoy my normals.

Oakleaf Ranger1 votes

Match making isnt perfect but it shit the bed once riot added position selection.

Why?

Because match making got a hell lot of more complicated. Before the only thing the system had to take into account was your mmr and duo's.

Now it has to take into account your position selections which arguably wouldn't be too bad if that also didn't take into account your duo's at the same time.

Which led to long ass queue times because trying meet all these requirements took a while. Everyone complained so riot's solution to shorten queue time was an introduction of auto fill and lowering the restrictions on who gets put with who.

So umm yah match making definitely blows fucking ass right now and there are reasons for it. Its not just as simple as

"WeLl EvErYoNe In SaMe MrR rAnGe, EqUaL cHaNce Of WiNnInG jUsT gIt GuD."

Jamaree3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Oakleaf Ranger,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QpnIkzQp,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2018-07-24T03:51:20.242+0000)

Match making isnt perfect but it shit the bed once riot added position selection.

Why?

Because match making got a hell lot of more complicated. Before the only thing the system had to take into account was your mmr and duo's.

Now it has to take into account your position selections which arguably wouldn't be too bad if that also didn't take into account your duo's at the same time.

Which led to long ass queue times because trying meet all these requirements took a while. Everyone complained so riot's solution to shorten queue time was an introduction of auto fill and lowering the restrictions on who gets put with who.

So umm yah match making definitely blows fucking ass right now and there are reasons for it. Its not just as simple as

"WeLl EvErYoNe In SaMe MrR rAnGe, EqUaL cHaNce Of WiNnInG jUsT gIt GuD."

Ummmm dude, the restrictions to who you can play with have gotten stricter, not looser. Before, any elo could duo with anyone, it wasn't until around role selection got added (at the behest of the community) that they made it like this.

Oakleaf Ranger3 votes

Ummmm dude, the restrictions to who you can play with have gotten stricter, not looser. Before, any elo could duo with anyone, it wasn't until around role selection got added (at the behest of the community) that they made it like this.

Players are only restricted to those within one tier of their own. That realistically is no restriction not including smurfs because the skill difference in each one is vast.

You put me in a lane against a bronze player and I will snowball. What is the silver top/mid/support/adc (jg possibly being the only exception) gonna do once I start moving my fed ass to other areas of the map while he got stuck with a silver opponent?

People are being put together half assed because the time it actually takes to make balanced teams is way too long with the new parameters.

Also those unranked to challenger require 100-200 games. Which is a shit ton of games and even then alot these people who do it duo at some points or from the start.

Fuck match making and in particular FUCK DUOING IN SOLO QUE.

Jamaree2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Oakleaf Ranger,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QpnIkzQp,comment-id=000a00000000,timestamp=2018-07-24T04:56:42.739+0000)

Players are only restricted to those within one tier of their own. That realistically is no restriction not including smurfs because the skill difference in each one is vast.

You put me in a lane against a bronze player and I will snowball. What is the silver top/mid/support/adc (jg possibly being the only exception) gonna do once I start moving my fed ass to other areas of the map while he got stuck with a silver opponent?

People are being put together half assed because the time it actually takes to make balanced teams is way too long with the new parameters.

Also those unranked to challenger require 100-200 games. Which is a shit ton of games and even then alot these people who do it duo at some points or from the start.

Fuck match making and in particular FUCK DUOING IN SOLO QUE.

It seems to me you hate smurfs and duos more then the actual system itself.

Oakleaf Ranger2 votes

I do but you still havent addressed my original points about the flaws with the updated system. I'm not saying the old was perfect but its certainly better than the current one. Which personally I think many of its issues would be solved with the removal of duo in solo queue.

Jamaree1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Oakleaf Ranger,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QpnIkzQp,comment-id=000a0000000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-24T05:29:39.324+0000)

I do but you still havent addressed my original points about the flaws with the updated system. I'm not saying the old was perfect but its certainly better than the current one. Which personally I think many of its issues would be solved with the removal of duo in solo queue.

I'm not really sure how exactly one would say it was better when there was no restrictions on who you could queue with as opposed to now with restrictions.

Oakleaf Ranger1 votes

Well for one there were restrictions on the old system.

2nd the most important difference was the fewer parameters the system used to match people (which was just mmr) instead of the current system which uses more which I already explained. Riot keeps short queue times and fairer groupings because its not trying to full fill multiple criteria.

3rd multiple role proficiently existed because you were never guaranteed your main role. No auto fill auto lose lane/jg against someone who mains the role because you rarely play that role.

Jamaree1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Oakleaf Ranger,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QpnIkzQp,comment-id=000a000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-24T08:01:50.510+0000)

Well for one there were restrictions on the old system.

What restrictions?

2nd the most important difference was the fewer parameters the system used to match people (which was just mmr) instead of the current system which uses more which I already explained. Riot keeps short queue times and fairer groupings because its not trying to full fill multiple criteria.

Ok, why exactly is that a problem?

3rd multiple role proficiently existed because you were never guaranteed your main role. No auto fill auto lose lane/jg against someone who mains the role because you rarely play that role.

That happens now, and people just dodged before when they didn't get the role they wanted, nothing has changed in that.

Oakleaf Ranger1 votes

https://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/client-new-features-feedback/n3dPnAaM-duo-queue-restrictions

Start of season 4...

Umm fairer match making as the system balanced teams using fewer parameters but still within a an acceptable time frame.

Well shit then you need to start telling people that in low elo. People more than happy to off role down here and feed their brains off instead of dodging.

remakoro1 votes

The fuck are you talking about? Draft in its current form arrived quite recently but division restrictions for duo were there for at least twice that.

Jamaree1 votes

{quoted}

The fuck are you talking about? Draft in its current form arrived quite recently but division restrictions for duo were there for at least twice that.

Ummm, ranked restriction was the end of 2015 with role selection the start of 2016?

remakoro1 votes

https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-411-notes

Thats mid of 2014. We still had team builder and all other kinds of strange stuff.

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