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Why Promotional Series are more toxic than other ranked games and are unhealthy for Solo Q

TheVishual··68 votes·5,995 views

I was reading the two posts with 200+ upvotes about promotional series and was going to comment there because another summoner was playing devil's advocate for the league system (which is totally cool and I always promote healthy discussion) but I didn't think it would get read in the sea of comments. This is a long winded post but I think it's really worth a read if you have the time.

It was something along the lines of this:

Riot: Promos feel good to win. Us: Yes, but they feel much, much worse to lose.

Riot: Luck on getting Trolls/Flamers applies to every game. Us: Yes, but they feel much, much worse in promos.

I will explain to you why promotional series are more toxic than other ranked games and are bad for solo queue.

The toxicity in promotions is much higher... it's not just a coincidence.

Read this first before reading the rest of my post http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/22lq70/my_honest_opinion_about_season_4_solo_queue/

Because of the changes Riot made over the years to reduce snowballing, it's harder for players who are actually "good" to carry games. This wouldn't be a problem if all the games we played had the same value, you could still win 55-60% and climb elo. However... when you make it so you have to win 2/3 or 3/5 games in a row (along with the changes I just mentioned) it can take many many more games than it should to get promoted. This "grind" wears on people and causes people to tilt and be angry in promotional matches, and rightfully so because these games do matter more than the other ranked games you have been playing. On top of this, you are "forced" to play promotional matches because if you dodge you get a loss for your series regardless (this is different than other solo queue games because if you don't like the lobby environment/team comp, you can just dodge and try again)

So just from the get-go we can see as to why promotional series are higher stress for no reason than other ranked games. BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE! billy mays voice

Additionally, because these games are of a higher "value" than the other solo queue ranked games we play, they are prime targets for people who want to troll. They can more easily incite rage from people because Riot puts so much unnecessary value on these games. This combined with the fact there has been no tribunal for the past year other than chat-restrict causes these promotional series to be a breeding ground for toxicity/afk. Chat-restrict does reduce flaming in chat which is great but there is currently no repercussions for being a troll other than losing your chat-privileges. This doesn't prevent someone from ruining your game on purpose if they want to (and by that I mean doing something like AFKing in base and walking around to avoid leaverbuster, not dying a couple times in lane)

A streamer I was watching on twitch explained it in the best way possible I think using basketball in RL for an example. If I'm playing a pickup game of basketball with people and some dickhead playing with us goes "well I'm just going to take the ball and shoot it into our own net every time" we can just.... walk away and go play on a different court and waste a minute of our time. This is not possible in league; you're investing a minimum of 25-30 minutes of your time per game (including looking for game, bans, champ select, loading, etc.) even if some "dickhead" decides to ruin your game. This helpless feeling is only further magnified in promos (for the prior reasons I stated) and further propagates toxicity because those players are never punished.

Here's another example of a Diamond I player getting stuck in Plat I because of the league system http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1ofp95/platinum_1_the_real_elo_hell_is_this_real_life/

LP clamping along with promotions create a toxic environment; it makes people feel like they're stuck even though they're performing well in games consistently and not seeing any results. This is why promos are toxic, it's not just your imagination.

On top of this, with the current report system there is no way to weed out the players who are intentionally ruining games, and that causes people who would not normally be toxic become toxic... It's a flawed system, literally a toxicity factory.

Thanks for reading, hopefully RIot gives this a look and makes some productive changes to solo queue for next season

45 Comments

Rysophage15 votes

When you're in promos it feels like rito purposefully matches you with the worst, most toxic players in your division just to see if you can "carry them"

TheVishual2 votes

{quoted}

When you're in promos it feels like rito purposefully matches you with the worst, most toxic players in your division just to see if you can "carry them"

People in promos are more toxic for the reasons I stated above. It's not because Riot matches you with toxic people, but because there are more of them.

It's a flawed system

Narasimha1 votes

Honestly, I think it's literally because the kids are out right now. It's summer. Even now, I do my promos in the night, like 12-1 EST, and I don't see too many problem people.

Messaiga1 votes

Another "safe" time for ranked is probably early in the morning (before 10-11 am).

Source: I'm one of those kids that has summer vacation (never have I been toxic or trolled in ranked though) and I often find myself waking up around 10-11 in the morning.

jaymc11301 votes

{quoted}

Another "safe" time for ranked is probably early in the morning (before 10-11 am).

Source: I'm one of those kids that has summer vacation (never have I been toxic or trolled in ranked though) and I often find myself waking up around 10-11 in the morning.

My best games occur between 9 and 12 on weekday mornings. Timing is important to consider when playing ranked. Now when I say best games this doesn't mean I carried super duper hard in them all and rolled over everyone. Lol. It means my teams in those games are the most coordinated, most focused on winning, and most positive, which makes the game the most enjoyable for me.

TheVishual1 votes

{quoted}

My best games occur between 9 and 12 on weekday mornings. Timing is important to consider when playing ranked. Now when I say best games this doesn't mean I carried super duper hard in them all and rolled over everyone. Lol. It means my teams in those games are the most coordinated, most focused on winning, and most positive, which makes the game the most enjoyable for me.

I would agree that this is true after playing ranked for the past 5 seasons. Unfortunately people who work during the day can't play in the morning but I have managed to sneak in several games over the years during that time. Late nights from sunday-thursday are usually pretty good too.

The worst time to play solo queue I've found is during the summer for obvious reasons and during prime time hours (5PM-3AM) Friday and Saturday.

jaymc11301 votes

{quoted}

I would agree that this is true after playing ranked for the past 5 seasons. Unfortunately people who work during the day can't play in the morning but I have managed to sneak in several games over the years during that time. Late nights from sunday-thursday are usually pretty good too.

The worst time to play solo queue I've found is during the summer for obvious reasons and during prime time hours (5PM-3AM) Friday and Saturday.

I'm lucky, my boss pays me for 8 hours every day. I have about 2 hours worth of work. And the internet speed in the office is terrific. Tee he!

Sidewayzz6 votes

I literally did my promos to get into Bronze 1 like 12 times this summer. I am Silver 5 now but honestly promotions are ridiculous. I feel like the current system forces you to play 15 hours a day like the pros just to get into a division where idiots don't bone you every game. I have to spend so much unreasonable and what should be unnecessary time in order to get to a tier that reflects my level of skill. On the subject of carrying: I can go 22 and 4 at mid lane Viktor and lose because of stupid teammates who get caught at 42 minutes in and lose the game. That is ridiculous.

NvrGivUp1 votes

Hey, I got lucky. It only took me 9 tries. : D

Randomonium3 votes

I hate playing promos. I sat at 100 LP in my division for months because I didn't want to play them. And when I finally got the courage I had 2 games in a row with afkers and promptly lost my series again. Makes me feel like all the work I put in isn't worth it. I don't think I've ever played a game where the ranked system is so unrewarding.

jaymc11303 votes

This is a brilliant and succinct post that addresses many concerns we all have. Thanks for taking the time to lay it all out in such a well worded and constructive fashion OP. +1, you have my gratitude.

Very Hard Engage2 votes

user applied logic to rito!

alas it was not very effective......

what you've said has been said 1000x over, and everyone largely agrees with you, riot just refuses to change the system.

TheVishual3 votes

{quoted}

user applied logic to rito!

alas it was not very effective......

what you've said has been said 1000x over, and everyone largely agrees with you, riot just refuses to change the system.

Hey if we say it enough times you never know :) I mostly just wanted to respond to the player that said the thing about Riot stating all games are equally toxic

I also genuinely believe that Riot has convinced people that they are crazy for thinking promos are more toxic and I wanted to show them they aren't

Very Hard Engage1 votes

{quoted}

Hey if we say it enough times you never know :) I mostly just wanted to respond to the player that said the thing about Riot stating all games are equally toxic

I also genuinely believe that Riot has convinced people that they are crazy for thinking promos are more toxic and I wanted to show them they aren't

except there must be this type of segregation and a prevention of players from scaling up. if players were actually measured on skill and not by number of games played, or the LP system, you would see a bell curve, not a logarithmic scaling. across the tiers and divisions, where most would be in the middle, and a gradual decrease towards either end, with spikes at the tip of both ends.

you would find theres a lot more gold 2~plat 3 players then there currently are. and as a result diamond/master challenger would also scale up and grow larger. its just that in riots eyes "someone has to be at the bottom, and for every game some diamond player climbs, 5 other players must be down that many more games"

what it all boils down to is the system, and due to it being win/loss, it comes down to number of game plays more than anything else.

TheVishual2 votes

{quoted}

except there must be this type of segregation and a prevention of players from scaling up. if players were actually measured on skill and not by number of games played, or the LP system, you would see a bell curve, not a logarithmic scaling. across the tiers and divisions, where most would be in the middle, and a gradual decrease towards either end, with spikes at the tip of both ends.

you would find theres a lot more gold 2~plat 3 players then there currently are. and as a result diamond/master challenger would also scale up and grow larger. its just that in riots eyes "someone has to be at the bottom, and for every game some diamond player climbs, 5 other players must be down that many more games"

what it all boils down to is the system, and due to it being win/loss, it comes down to number of game plays more than anything else.

There was none of this segregation in season 1 and 2 and ranked was great, what are you talking about?

The same elo system is still used there is just the useless package of division around your MMR; it literally is useless fluff that causes frustration for people

Very Hard Engage2 votes

{quoted}

There was none of this segregation in season 1 and 2 and ranked was great, what are you talking about?

The same elo system is still used there is just the useless package of division around your MMR; it literally is useless fluff that causes frustration for people

because with elo you could be matched with everyone, it would just take longer to find a match and your rating difference in gains/losses was higher or lower based on your teams average, and there were no promotional games, it was just a number which was solely influenced by how much you played.

the system was "improved" a while ago, and was much more strict with who it deemed a "fair" person to put in your group.

it was also much easier to carry a team back in the day and without promotional games it was much faster to achieve where you belonged.

by "segregation" i mean these pictures this one is number of players per tier http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-byVsUju_ZRY/UTaqQmjIdLI/AAAAAAAAHkM/SN4weHiUPFc/s1600/rankeddistribution1.png this picture is not recent, and will have changed since, but its the concept im getting at here. http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-dczdxx6AOCQ/UTaqRGt4ZtI/AAAAAAAAHkU/Jn1qC3tvTYQ/s640/rankeddistribution2.png this is the math of how it works, the reason the first picture is different is because players cant fall out of silver 5, gold 5, etc, but this would be an accurate representation of how the LP system works. and this one is an estimation of skill http://faculty.elgin.edu/dkernler/statistics/ch09/images/chi-square-dist1.gif with bronze on the left, and challenger on the right, picture taken from reddit.

what this means is that the league LP system is not a representation of skill, and does not place people according to their level of play. but its a completely separate ranking system with its own rules and methods of scaling.

TheVishual2 votes

{quoted}

because with elo you could be matched with everyone, it would just take longer to find a match and your rating difference in gains/losses was higher or lower based on your teams average, and there were no promotional games, it was just a number which was solely influenced by how much you played.

the system was "improved" a while ago, and was much more strict with who it deemed a "fair" person to put in your group.

it was also much easier to carry a team back in the day and without promotional games it was much faster to achieve where you belonged.

by "segregation" i mean these pictures this one is number of players per tier http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-byVsUju_ZRY/UTaqQmjIdLI/AAAAAAAAHkM/SN4weHiUPFc/s1600/rankeddistribution1.png this picture is not recent, and will have changed since, but its the concept im getting at here. http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-dczdxx6AOCQ/UTaqRGt4ZtI/AAAAAAAAHkU/Jn1qC3tvTYQ/s640/rankeddistribution2.png this is the math of how it works, the reason the first picture is different is because players cant fall out of silver 5, gold 5, etc, but this would be an accurate representation of how the LP system works. and this one is an estimation of skill http://faculty.elgin.edu/dkernler/statistics/ch09/images/chi-square-dist1.gif with bronze on the left, and challenger on the right, picture taken from reddit.

what this means is that the league LP system is not a representation of skill, and does not place people according to their level of play. but its a completely separate ranking system with its own rules and methods of scaling.

I dont think you understand how the matchmaking system works... You are still matched the same way you were in season 1, which is why you can see people who are in Divison V 0LP getting matched with people in the previous tier. Just because you can't drop "visually" from tiers doesn't mean you keep getting matched with people in your tier if you don't play well

I just said the league system is a completely different ranking system. It has no value to the matchmaking system because it is just "fluff" as I stated, but you are required to go through extra hoops to show what elo you're at to other players and get rewards which is what causes the toxicity as I stated in the post.

In fact LP as no value at all besides putting you in the imaginary tiers (which are there only to inflate people's ego and doesn't affect matchmaking), which is actually why it's better to dodge and lose LP but not lose MMR. That's how their system works currently

I know everyone hates Athene and I do too but this video shows how the MM system works https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZaPPs2QUdU

The reason why it was easier to carry is because of the reason in the reddit post if you didn't read it... in fact it seems you didn't read my post at all lol

Very Hard Engage1 votes

{quoted}

I dont think you understand how the matchmaking system works... You are still matched the same way you were in season 1, which is why you can see people who are in Divison V 0LP getting matched with people in the previous tier. Just because you can't drop "visually" from tiers doesn't mean you keep getting matched with people in your tier if you don't play well

I just said the league system is a completely different ranking system. It has no value to the matchmaking system because it is just "fluff" as I stated, but you are required to go through extra hoops to show what elo you're at to other players and get rewards which is what causes the toxicity as I stated in the post.

In fact LP as no value at all besides putting you in the imaginary tiers (which are there only to inflate people's ego and doesn't affect matchmaking), which is actually why it's better to dodge and lose LP but not lose MMR. That's how their system works currently

I know everyone hates Athene and I do too but this video shows how the MM system works https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZaPPs2QUdU

The reason why it was easier to carry is because of the reason in the reddit post if you didn't read it... in fact it seems you didn't read my post at all lol

you're confusing MMR with LP system, this is your fallacy and your HUGE misinterpretation.

the MMR system means you gain and lose points for your individual rating, your IR is who riot tries to match you with, however if you are being gated by promotional games, your MMR freezes with you. it wont change until you rank up and start winning/climbing.

riot screwed everything up when they decided to use 2 numbers instead of the old elo system, where you had 1 rating and it was.

nowadays both have been combined into 1 crappy system.

your MMR says who you play with, the LP system says nothing at all.

im currently in silver 1, but i exclusively play with players who are gold 1, through gold 4. this is because my MMR is probably in the gold 2 or 3 region, however, the LP system hasn't caught up, and instead i need to play more matches to rank up. however since promo matches are so batched ill get stuck repeating them over and over and over, what logic is it that i have to play with gold 3 players, to enter into gold 5.

TheVishual1 votes

{quoted}

you're confusing MMR with LP system, this is your fallacy and your HUGE misinterpretation.

the MMR system means you gain and lose points for your individual rating, your IR is who riot tries to match you with, however if you are being gated by promotional games, your MMR freezes with you. it wont change until you rank up and start winning/climbing.

riot screwed everything up when they decided to use 2 numbers instead of the old elo system, where you had 1 rating and it was.

nowadays both have been combined into 1 crappy system.

How much LP you win and lose per match is directly correlated to your mmr... This is why it's better to dodge and lose LP but not play a troll game and lose MMR, watch the video, test it yourself... again you have no idea how the ranked system works lol

Your MMR never freezes, this is proof http://www.in2lol.com/en/news/13487-the-bronze-player-with-diamond-mmr-i-just-felt-like-it Bronze I in diamond MMR

you're a moron

edit: and you literally wrote what I wrote in your post after I quoted you lol like you keep repeating what I am saying, I think you agree with me but don't realize it

Very Hard Engage1 votes

{quoted}

How much LP you win and lose per match is directly correlated to your mmr... This is why it's better to dodge and lose LP but not play a troll game and lose MMR, watch the video, test it yourself... again you have no idea how the ranked system works lol

Your MMR never freezes, this is proof http://www.in2lol.com/en/news/13487-the-bronze-player-with-diamond-mmr-i-just-felt-like-it Bronze I in diamond MMR

you're a moron

edit: and you literally wrote what I wrote in your post after I quoted you lol like you keep repeating what I am saying, I think you agree with me but don't realize it

dodging further hurts your climbing, you want your MMR to match your current LP, that way your skill matters moreso, otherwise you WONT CLIMB THE LP RANKING INTO GOLD PLAT DIAMOND++

mmr exclusively says who i play with, it does increase my LP gains/losses, it doesn't matter if i reach promotional matches in 3 or 4 games between divisions with huge LP gains, because i still need to win 2/3 with exceptionally bad players, which is harder to do now, than it was.

TheVishual1 votes

{quoted}

dodging further hurts your climbing, you want your MMR to match your current LP, that way your skill matters moreso, otherwise you WONT CLIMB THE LP RANKING INTO GOLD PLAT DIAMOND++

mmr exclusively says who i play with, it does increase my LP gains/losses, it doesn't matter if i reach promotional matches in 3 or 4 games between divisions with huge LP gains, because i still need to win 2/3 with exceptionally bad players, which is harder to do now, than it was.

I'm not gonna argue just purely because I've given you proof like 3 times and you refuse to believe it lol

Very Hard Engage1 votes

{quoted}

I'm not gonna argue just purely because I've given you proof like 3 times and you refuse to believe it lol

explain why i play with gold 3's, go on, im listening. now explain why am i in silver 1. its MMR. explain why i gain +32LP per win, but im still in silver 1.
its because of promotional matches, not skill. why doesn't my skill or MMR match my league ranking? because the LP system is broken. nuff said.

edit - http://i.imgur.com/laAVXoJ.png http://i.imgur.com/FJuPsB3.png

our MMR differences are all of 120 points, and that encompasses all of gold, tell me, why is that so far apart, when the average gold player is 1450MMR.

but yet..... your're plat 5.... almost plat 4 its almost as if theres something other than MMR at work.

TheVishual1 votes

{quoted}

explain why i play with gold 3's, go on, im listening. now explain why am i in silver 1. its MMR. explain why i gain +32LP per win, but im still in silver 1.
its because of promotional matches, not skill. why doesn't my skill or MMR match my league ranking? because the LP system is broken. nuff said.

edit - http://i.imgur.com/laAVXoJ.png http://i.imgur.com/FJuPsB3.png

our MMR differences are all of 120 points, and that encompasses all of gold, tell me, why is that so far apart, when the average gold player is 1450MMR.

but yet..... your're plat 5.... almost plat 4 its almost as if theres something other than MMR at work.

  1. 120 MMR is a pretty sizable gap

  2. If you actually read first post I made and the subsequent posts it is all about how the League system is broken and sucks (because I can tell you didn't read or you wouldn't post what you did)

There's nothing other than MMR at work... if you watched the fucking video you would know why you are gaining 31 LP while you're in silver I, its because your MMR is low gold. I gain less LP because my mmr is high gold/low plat and my division is Plat (because I went on a losing streak awhile ago). The higher your MMR is relative to your division, the more LP you gain per win to get your League System tier up to where your MMR is. Likewise, if your mmr is below your division, the system gives you less LP per win until your MMR matches the visual tier.

This has 0 bearing on matchmaking and has been confirmed by Riot. You could get promoted to gold V the next game and you will still be playing vs the same people just +1 games worth of MMR. This is why it's better to dodge and lose -3 LP than just play a troll game and lose LP and MMR. You will gain it back the next game you play because of the LP boost you get from having higher MMR. If your MMR is high enough you can even jump a division when you get promoted.

That is why the divison/tier system is stupid, it keeps your visual division/tier lower than your MMR if you can't get promoted even though you're playing against better players. Matchmaking has not changed. The MMR system is the old ELO system, the new leagues and LP are just a visual package on the outside.

tl;dr It helps to read what other people post before you write responses

Again, if you read what I wrote in the first place or watched the video you would understand that.

Very Hard Engage1 votes

{quoted}

  1. 120 MMR is a pretty sizable gap

  2. If you actually read first post I made and the subsequent posts it is all about how the League system is broken and sucks (because I can tell you didn't read or you wouldn't post what you did)

There's nothing other than MMR at work... if you watched the fucking video you would know why you are gaining 31 LP while you're in silver I, its because your MMR is low gold. I gain less LP because my mmr is high gold/low plat and my division is Plat (because I went on a losing streak awhile ago). The higher your MMR is relative to your division, the more LP you gain per win to get your League System tier up to where your MMR is. Likewise, if your mmr is below your division, the system gives you less LP per win until your MMR matches the visual tier.

This has 0 bearing on matchmaking and has been confirmed by Riot. You could get promoted to gold V the next game and you will still be playing vs the same people just +1 games worth of MMR. This is why it's better to dodge and lose -3 LP than just play a troll game and lose LP and MMR. You will gain it back the next game you play because of the LP boost you get from having higher MMR. If your MMR is high enough you can even jump a division when you get promoted.

That is why the divison/tier system is stupid, it keeps your visual division/tier lower than your MMR if you can't get promoted even though you're playing against better players. Matchmaking has not changed. The MMR system is the old ELO system, the new leagues and LP are just a visual package on the outside.

tl;dr It helps to read what other people post before you write responses

Again, if you read what I wrote in the first place or watched the video you would understand that.

thanks for agreeing with everything i said. now please, stop posting. and 120 is not that big, 300 is a tier. 120 is about 2 divisions.
you should be at an 1800+ rating to be in plat, but something tells me you lost quite a few at plat 5, couldnt fall into gold 1, and recently just started winning again, and won enough to warrant going up. and your MMR hasn't caught up to you yet.

gold 5 is 1500. silver 5 is 1100. diamond 5 would be 2100

ish*

TheVishual1 votes

{quoted}

thanks for agreeing with everything i said. now please, stop posting. and 120 is not that big, 300 is a tier. 120 is about 2 divisions.
you should be at an 1800+ rating to be in plat, but something tells me you lost quite a few at plat 5, couldnt fall into gold 1, and recently just started winning again, and won enough to warrant going up. and your MMR hasn't caught up to you yet.

gold 5 is 1500. silver 5 is 1100. diamond 5 would be 2100

ish*

I wrote it first, thank you for agreeing with me lol

I've been plat the past 2 seasons, I'm sorry you can't get out of silver you'll do it one day :)

Also literally none of those numbers you just wrote are right haha

jaymc11301 votes

{quoted}

dodging further hurts your climbing, you want your MMR to match your current LP, that way your skill matters moreso, otherwise you WONT CLIMB THE LP RANKING INTO GOLD PLAT DIAMOND++

mmr exclusively says who i play with, it does increase my LP gains/losses, it doesn't matter if i reach promotional matches in 3 or 4 games between divisions with huge LP gains, because i still need to win 2/3 with exceptionally bad players, which is harder to do now, than it was.

Actually, dodging doesn't affect your ability to climb in any way below diamond level play. In fact, LP doesn't even matter below diamond level play. One moment and I'll link you to a thread I respond in that addresses your concern.

Here ya go: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/UUK4IK2x-f-u-riot

I'll also bump it.

Exta5y1 votes

{quoted}

user applied logic to rito!

alas it was not very effective......

what you've said has been said 1000x over, and everyone largely agrees with you, riot just refuses to change the system.

Rito is the BIGGEST TROLL in League of Legends. Proof is the lack of a proper tribunal. Afkers and feeders are not dealt with in proper timely fashion. Also during promos you are put at a disadvantage on purpose. They want you to earn it. WHich in my opinion is such bullshit. GG report riot plz for trolling and assisting the enemy

Matthias91192 votes

Chat-restrict does reduce flaming in chat which is great but there is currently no repercussions for being a troll other than losing your chat-privileges. This doesn't prevent someone from ruining your game on purpose if they want to (and by that I mean doing something like AFKing in base and walking around to avoid leaverbuster, not dying a couple times in lane)

Walking around in base will not avoid LeaverBuster, FYI.

Also, Ranked Restrictions are a thing, and people constantly show up on the forums whining about 14-day bans, so you can lose more than just chat priveleges.

Some of the problems with eliminating promo series and just making it something like "Silver = X MMR, Gold = Y MMR, Plat = Z MMR" are:

  1. It makes Ranked feel like an endless grind with nothing to break up the monotony. Ranked is way more popular now than it was in S1 and this is part of the reason why. Losing a promo series can be frustrating, but winning one is far more psychologically satisfying than having an arbitrary number tick over some arbitrary threshold.
  2. If it's "easy" to promote between tiers then it also needs to be "easy" to drop, so people near the edge will bounce back and forth and/or get "ladder anxiety" about dropping between tiers if they lose a few games. This is undesirable.
  3. It makes it so that whenever you're anywhere near one of those promotion boundaries, every match feels like a promo series match.
TheVishual1 votes

{quoted}

Walking around in base will not avoid LeaverBuster, FYI.

Also, Ranked Restrictions are a thing, and people constantly show up on the forums whining about 14-day bans, so you can lose more than just chat priveleges.

Some of the problems with eliminating promo series and just making it something like "Silver = X MMR, Gold = Y MMR, Plat = Z MMR" are:

  1. It makes Ranked feel like an endless grind with nothing to break up the monotony. Ranked is way more popular now than it was in S1 and this is part of the reason why. Losing a promo series can be frustrating, but winning one is far more psychologically satisfying than having an arbitrary number tick over some arbitrary threshold.
  2. If it's "easy" to promote between tiers then it also needs to be "easy" to drop, so people near the edge will bounce back and forth and/or get "ladder anxiety" about dropping between tiers if they lose a few games. This is undesirable.
  3. It makes it so that whenever you're anywhere near one of those promotion boundaries, every match feels like a promo series match.

I'm almost positive that unless you get marked with a "leave" on the game there's no way leaverbuster can tell if you're afking in base or not. If you can show me a Riot posts that says otherwise please link it in the thread.

As far as the ranked restrictions go; yeah they happen sometimes... they are incredibly rare and I don't really see people complaining about them on the forums all the time, I think that might be a bit of an exaggeration.

Ranked is an endless grind now, only now half of the time you see no progress at all. Constant ELO climbing is better than getting stuck somewhere IMO but you're entitled to feel the way you do. Riot tried to remove "ranked anxiety" but created it by adding the tiers and promotions. The majority of promotion matches by far and large are miserable to play. In my opinion the old system was better functionally than the current system... getting a cool worded tier like plat or diamond is nice but it is all fluff. I'd rather have competitive games (isn't that the point of RANKED?) which aren't miserable to play all the time than some sticker slapped on my account telling people I'm good at ranked.

Ranked is more popular than it was in season 1 because there are 27 million people playing daily now... There weren't even remotely as many people back then. correlation =/= causation

Matthias91191 votes

I'm almost positive that unless you get marked with a "leave" on the game there's no way leaverbuster can tell if you're afking in base or not. If you can show me a Riot posts that says otherwise please link it in the thread.

I can't find a Riot source on this right this second, but it's worked that way since the very beginning of it being introduced. Every now and then someone shows up livid that they get an AFK punishment when "they didn't disconnect" and then admits that they were only walking around their base.

As far as the ranked restrictions go; yeah they happen sometimes... they are incredibly rare and I don't really see people complaining about them on the forums all the time, I think that might be a bit of an exaggeration.

I don't know which forums you're reading, but on this one there's probably a person or two every day whining about bans and ranked restrictions. Here are a few from the last few days:

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/miscellaneous/KvqMnjIg-so-i-got-a-verbal-abuse-ban-for-14-days http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/miscellaneous/ARpxRtMr-i-get-suspended-14-days-for-this http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/miscellaneous/QOIPdNet-banned-for-being-flammed http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/miscellaneous/RfxgE48f-ban-appeal http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/miscellaneous/HeG4MU4n-14-day-banned-for-being-toxic-one-game-never-chat-restricted-either

Ranked is an endless grind now, only now half of the time you see no progress at all. Constant ELO climbing is better than getting stuck somewhere IMO but you're entitled to feel the way you do. Riot tried to remove "ranked anxiety" but created it by adding the tiers and promotions.

There are tradeoffs to doing it both ways. With the current promo series you get a few games that feel very important. With "reach the threshold" you get a lot of games that feel somewhat important. And because it's so hard to drop tiers, players in "V" divisions don't have to worry as much about losing their rank before the end of the season. (In... S3, I think, you couldn't drop between tiers through losing, but that encouraged boosting too much and a handful of players used it as an excuse to troll near the end of the season, so it was changed.)

The majority of promotion matches by far and large are miserable to play. In my opinion the old system was better functionally than the current system... getting a cool worded tier like plat or diamond is nice but it is all fluff; I'd rather have competitive games (isn't that the point of RANKED?) which aren't miserable to play all the time than some sticker slapped on my account telling people I'm good at ranked.

Tiers/divisions have nothing to do with matchmaking. The matchmaking didn't change significantly from S1, just how they decide your "rank". LP and "rank" are literally just a pretty set of labels on top of MMR (a modified version of Elo), and all the matchmaker looks at is MMR. If they removed or changed the ranking system tomorrow it would change nothing with matchmaking.

TheVishual2 votes

{quoted}

I can't find a Riot source on this right this second, but it's worked that way since the very beginning of it being introduced. Every now and then someone shows up livid that they get an AFK punishment when "they didn't disconnect" and then admits that they were only walking around their base.

I don't know which forums you're reading, but on this one there's probably a person or two every day whining about bans and ranked restrictions. Here are a few from the last few days:

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/miscellaneous/KvqMnjIg-so-i-got-a-verbal-abuse-ban-for-14-days http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/miscellaneous/ARpxRtMr-i-get-suspended-14-days-for-this http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/miscellaneous/QOIPdNet-banned-for-being-flammed http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/miscellaneous/RfxgE48f-ban-appeal http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/miscellaneous/HeG4MU4n-14-day-banned-for-being-toxic-one-game-never-chat-restricted-either

There are tradeoffs to doing it both ways. With the current promo series you get a few games that feel very important. With "reach the threshold" you get a lot of games that feel somewhat important. And because it's so hard to drop tiers, players in "V" divisions don't have to worry as much about losing their rank before the end of the season. (In... S3, I think, you couldn't drop between tiers through losing, but that encouraged boosting too much and a handful of players used it as an excuse to troll near the end of the season, so it was changed.)

Tiers/divisions have nothing to do with matchmaking. The matchmaking didn't change significantly from S1, just how they decide your "rank". LP and "rank" are literally just a pretty set of labels on top of MMR (a modified version of Elo), and all the matchmaker looks at is MMR. If they removed or changed the ranking system tomorrow it would change nothing with matchmaking.

From experience I can tell you that if there is no "leave" on your game from the end of the match, leaverbuster doesn't do anything (i.e. your name is in red at the end of the match in lobby). The only time I have ever even seen a warning from leaverbuster is when I d/ced due to lightning storm one time and it gives you the message saying to not d/c again... I have literally never heard of anyone being rightfully punished by LeaverBuster, but I do see AFKing very frequently in ranked promos.

Even with this being said, the ONE example I gave of trolling (afking in base) is just one example, there are many other different ways to troll without getting punished by the system currently.

All the ranked restricts are based on verbal abuse, which is great but that doesn't stop toxicity in ranked; the best way to troll currently is to just say nothing and ruin peoples games... it's quite common and you will never get caught because everything in the restriction system is based on chat. This didn't happen nearly as much when there was an actual tribunal or even before that when there were actual moderators for reports (hah, so long ago).

The promotional games are what this post is about and they definitely do affect how people operate in solo queue because of the reasons I stated in the first post. You are right that tier/divisions have nothing to do with matchmaking and I didn't say that they did, and infact have written that they don't in this thread multiple times.

jaymc11301 votes

I'm almost positive that unless you get marked with a "leave" on the game there's no way leaverbuster can tell if you're afking in base or not.

Leaverbuster is triggered primarily from reports of AFK. The amount of reports determines whether or not you get an afk warning and a lower priority queue punishment. There is a check to this in that the automated system will check to see about your contributions to the game by checking things like clicking and ability usage. Regardless, if you get 9x reported for afk or something along those lines even if you played the whole game you get leaverbustered. Tested myself. Fun fact, you can get leaverbustered from custom games also. Ok that fact isn't fun, that system is also stupid.

TotN Titan1 votes

Here is my problem with these threads about people having issues with their promotional matches:

If you're feeling extra pressure because it is your promotionals, that is on you. If you go into your promotionals letting everyone on your team know that there is added pressure, that is on you. If you feel like Riot's matchmaking system has intentionally matched you with the scum of the Earth, that is on you. If you feel like the game is different because you are playing promotionals, that is on you. If you feel like having to get 25 LP after failing a promotional is too much to get back into your promotionals, that is on you.

In the end, this game is all about what YOU bring to the game. People say things like "This game requires you to play 15 hours a day" to climb to the division that they feel they belong in. It might not be true, but, putting in the time to get better at the game is required to carry yourself to your proper Elo. Promotional matches are no different than any other matches. You have to carry yourself to the next level. It's on you to get yourself through to the next level.

You need to remember that you have the same opportunity to run into the bad luck of a troll or an afk in a promotional match as you do in any other ranked match. Luck is luck. The other team has just as much of a chance of having that bad luck as you do. But if you really do belong in the next tier, you'll get there. These are are your promotional matches, though. You have to own them.

Good luck on your climb.

TheVishual1 votes

{quoted}

Here is my problem with these threads about people having issues with their promotional matches:

If you're feeling extra pressure because it is your promotionals, that is on you. If you go into your promotionals letting everyone on your team know that there is added pressure, that is on you. If you feel like Riot's matchmaking system has intentionally matched you with the scum of the Earth, that is on you. If you feel like the game is different because you are playing promotionals, that is on you. If you feel like having to get 25 LP after failing a promotional is too much to get back into your promotionals, that is on you.

In the end, this game is all about what YOU bring to the game. People say things like "This game requires you to play 15 hours a day" to climb to the division that they feel they belong in. It might not be true, but, putting in the time to get better at the game is required to carry yourself to your proper Elo. Promotional matches are no different than any other matches. You have to carry yourself to the next level. It's on you to get yourself through to the next level.

You need to remember that you have the same opportunity to run into the bad luck of a troll or an afk in a promotional match as you do in any other ranked match. Luck is luck. The other team has just as much of a chance of having that bad luck as you do. But if you really do belong in the next tier, you'll get there. These are are your promotional matches, though. You have to own them.

Good luck on your climb.

You are correct promotional matches are the same as other matches. I could care less about promos they're the same ranked game to me...

A large amount of the community feels the way I stated however and that's why the matches are toxic, to deny that is just ignorant. You can't solo carry 1v5 high elo games because people actually know how to play the game + you can't snowball like you did in the past.

No one said it was impossible to climb, and you clearly didn't read the post because I rebutted the points that you made in your post

Low elo is a completely different playstyle from higher elo, if you ever played in higher elo and then go to low elo you'll see what I mean.

One toxic person sinks the entire ship in >plat (even high gold sometimes) that's why it's bad along with the reasons I stated

Linna Excel1 votes

Losses always feel twice as painful as a win of equal value. Promos tend to feature more losses (can't dodge and there will be trolls) than wins for a lot of people.

PL551 votes

I counted 15 times for me to win promos to B2. Before that, I got placed into B4 after I failed my provisionals then stomped every game until I reached B2 promos which was hell. It actually felt like I had normal teammates before promos, then right when I play my first promo game each time, I get matched with stubborn, hypocritical, flaming teammates. Anyways I finally did it like two months ago and I just got the motivation to start playing ranked again.

YossarianSensei1 votes

Yeah plat 1 was ridiculous, gave me cancer

UltraSceptile1 votes

I love the real life example, I love how you presented the idea, I love the idea of completely removing promos in itself.

I hate riot for not giving a single fuck.

Pæan1 votes

Went thru 3 sets of promos yesterday, each one went like this: 1st game: won, outright carried or got my team fed 2nd game: enemy team was hugely more experienced or my team was divisions below where i am 3rd: afk or ragequit or similar troll

im now at 40-ish lp and dont want to play ranked anymore. After those promos everything went downhill and not worth wasting time with the onslaught of highschool kids who have the mindset of "lol, i dont care, i just troll for fun with my AD singed that rushes merc treads"

Arch Mage Magnus1 votes

The best thing is we have 3 of these now at the top of the discussion page; how many red responses have we got? None of course. And if we miraculously DO get one, it will be the same old song and dance; "Oh hey guys, I understand your frustration, but I'm not in this department so I can't really offer anything, good luck though!".

Totalis1 votes

I would honestly be fine with promos if they JUST LET US DODGE THEM WITHOUT THAT STUPID PENALTY. Losing 3lp is fine, better than losing 17, but giving me a loss in my promos for dodging is making me pick between a loss from dodging or a loss from trolls.

Shosuko1 votes

I think the entire concept of Series is flawed. The idea is that you're bringing some element of competitive play to ranked games. The problem with this is that in a competitive environment a 55-60% win rate is considered successful. If you're winning more than 60% of your games it means you're playing people who are much worse than you are, by a lot.

Then we get this series thing where we have to have a 75% win rate. Don't forget you have to win the match to enter the series, and THEN 2 out of 3 more following that... You have to win 3 out of 4 games. Anyone who can consistently pull this win rate is playing FAR beyond their rank. Not just "hey, you should be silver 2, not silver 3" but like "hey you should be plat 2 not silver 3"

MasterVidallis1 votes

Agreed 100%, I think a lot of the people that rage and get super toxic when the team gets behind early (and often make sure the team can't come back because of their toxic behavior) are people in series who are so rilled up because they NEED the win that they actually play worse and behave worse.

KazaLyn Shao1 votes

Promo series just need to be done away with. It's been one of the many glaring issues of this system since they put it in place.

Yi Bencheikh1 votes

i read somewhere rito is going to remove the promo series i think it was the pbe website news

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