Tanky Junglers are far too strong

Mira Arya Enthe··11 votes·1,029 views

Between CotC which is so OP even some carries take it Riven, the massive exp, the impossible clear for squishy junglers that normally could deal with them through kiting and gank'n'spank tactics. But most importantly the insane value of having essentially 1.5-2x the farm value of lanes without the concerns of trading and last hitting. Jungle has become literally just a freelo wasteland of hyper tanky monsters, who just spam a clear and gank cycle that makes bottom lanes a nightmare, while putting themselves 2-4 levels and 500-2000 gold ahead of laners.

Given that bottom lane is gated by exp sharing and trading with one another. The jungler that does better is just 100% assured to win bot lane so their Vayne Caitlyn Twitch ADC gets fed and first tower blood. Resulting in a miserable landslide that is honestly painful to lose and boring to win especially on top island.

Right now winning means your LeeSin Hecarim Vi Shyvana Ivern Zac did better than their LeeSin Hecarim Vi Shyvana Ivern Zac and thus is perma farming both sides of the jungle giving them more CS and gold than an 'AFK' Nasus vs a Zz'rot portal.

The solution? Short term, nerf CotC and trash jungle exp/gold. Compensation buffs to weak junglers to bring their clear up. Buff towers.

Long term? Rethink keystones, jungle design and how tankiness with damage should function to be fun and fair. Buff towers.

Sincerely. Tanky jungler main. Shyvana

36 Comments

Ralanr4 votes

CoTC was already nerfed though. Jungle experience could take a beating imo.

Mira Arya Enthe3 votes

It was yes. I would nerf the jungle first, then see if CotC needs further tuning.

Ralanr2 votes

Agreed. IMO the jungle does feel like it has way too much impact both positively and negatively right now. And certain champions are just flat out better to the point where it's weird.

To give an example, I main Sion and like to jungle with him. I've been really bad in the jungle with him lately. I bought Zac recently and I became way more impactful in 3 games. With my first being so bad that I died to red buff. Twice in a row.

Escheton3 votes

I think you are mistaken "tanky junglers" with "the bruisers with a good early game that benefitted most from recent changes" Because tanky junglers get shit on by that list. Fyi.

Ralanr1 votes

{quoted}

I think you are mistaken "tanky junglers" with "the bruisers with a good early game that benefitted most from recent changes" Because tanky junglers get shit on by that list. Fyi.

Excluding Zac, for obvious reasons.

Penns2 votes

Those are tanky junglers too tho

Ralanr1 votes

Yes. Tanky is the keyword here. It's what bruisers usually are. tanky

Penns1 votes

How do tanky junglers get shit on by "tanky junglers in that list" then :o

Ralanr1 votes

Because bruisers are different from tanks.

Penns1 votes

Well bruisers are "tanky" too.. but I get the point, the problem is that cotc exists and can be abused by those bruisers to basically become tanks despite rushing Warrior and/or Trinity.

Ralanr1 votes

Yeah. Especially on diver champions. It makes Hecarim an unholy trinity of diver, juggernaut, and vanguard.

I don't like Hecarim.

Penns1 votes

Same, the only junglers I like less are Vi (tho dodging her ult with you know what is fun) and Zac... fuk that blob guy with 2000 range ganks item 3070

Ralanr1 votes

Recently bought Zac. Those ganks are hilarious man.

Sucks to be on the receiving end though.

Mira Arya Enthe2 votes

Tanky. As in the attribute of being tough.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QmRzeVzK,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2016-12-30T18:44:55.771+0000)

Tanky. As in the attribute of being tough.

As opposed to who? Lee Sin, Vi, and Zac are all primary jungle. Pretty much every jungler has some tank.

The only primary junglers who aren't tanky are assassins and mages. And no one enjoys having a non tanky jungle on the team.

Ralanr1 votes

Do we even have mage junglers anymore? I feel like they're almost extinct.

Alex h87212 votes

Fairly true, also a lotta people don't like playing tanks in other roles this season, which is why I've been spamming Amumu in normals to try and get better. I've generally been a Jax jg main.

40% cdr full tank amumu is too much fun, stuns for days!

All Skillzz2 votes

idc about tank junglers Vi Hecarim Are way to fucking strong with cotc.

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

Tanky*

Alex h87211 votes

I also think that part of the reason tanky junglers are impactful right now is because of how popular "carry" champs are even in support & toplane right now. I'd argue this is b/c its the beginning of the season and people think its easier to climb by having the kill pressure, which makes durable champs w/ CC that much more relevant because not only can they initiate against a squishy comp but they can also peel for their carries to turn around a fight.

It is so rewarding as Nautilus or Amumu to land your CC so your adc or midlaner can get away and keep doing damage, but in this position you are dependent on your teammates and because (especially in my low elo) a lot of people seem to view the game as team deathmatch I think this is unpopular.

TyrekGoldenspear1 votes

Gank'n'Spank?

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

Pfff. Just a lolzy term I came up with for junglers who get ahead through ganks only.

Dale Wardark1 votes

I play Sejuani religiously and I can tell you she's scary as hell. Very strong, but pretty much all tanks get easier to kill if the enemy team actually builds Mortal Reminder or the other tank killer that I can't think of.

Mira Arya Enthe3 votes

Sej is not a problem. Real tanks aren't.

Dale Wardark2 votes

reobserving your list of Champs makes your argument much more clear to me and I heartily agree. Reading comprehension was never one of my strong suits

Dreadlocks1 votes

CotC needs to be more fitting for tanks and not skirmishers/fighters... not sure how they could do it. I like the keystone, but it's abused rly hard rn...

ForgiveColour1 votes

Coc and jungle xp and income needs to be gutted. Why the fuck can the jungler solo wins the game in 5minutes for 4 years in a row. I thought this was a "team" game???

Ralanr1 votes

CoTC was nerfed. Now it's the jungles turn.

ForgiveColour1 votes

"Nerfed"

I almost laughed when I said that out loud

Ralanr1 votes

5% from 7% and base CD reduced to 45 seconds.

Sounds like a nerf to me.

Ahristocats1 votes

wow, ybur not doing a troll post for once

nice friend nice

Dolasaur1 votes

Riot did say they thought junglers were too strong right now. Not sure exactly how that's going to shake up. My bet is on them increasing jungle monster damage...

Escheton1 votes

CotC is bad because it's frontloaded. You get a big shield with a long cooldown. And you get it with peel/initiation abilities.

Divers have long cooldown engage abilities with some cc usually. Of course they benefit most.

CotC should have a smaller shield on a lower cooldown. So tanks don't get penalised for peeling and divers don't get rewarded for diving.

The Yetii Rider2 votes

{quoted}

CotC is bad because it's frontloaded. You get a big shield with a long cooldown. And you get it with peel/initiation abilities.

Divers have long cooldown engage abilities with some cc usually. Of course they benefit most.

CotC should have a smaller shield on a lower cooldown. So tanks don't get penalised for peeling and divers don't get rewarded for diving.

Why shouldn't divers have a keystone?

Cloud2731 votes

It's not the item. It's the champions using it.

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

its really more of a these champions are best at turret diving goon squad meta. farming junglers suck balls at the moment. full tank junglers. are ok. not broken. ap junglers are hit or miss. but these stupid diving tanks are too much. vi is a monkey champion along with hecarim.

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