I take it Lux is now on Riot's "We don't care!" list

darkdill·Apr 6, 2015·51 votes·2,783 views

Players are asking for her E's mana cost to be reduced, as 130 mana at level 5 is NASTY, but Riot doesn't care.

Players are asking for her W's shield to be first applied to her at the start of the cast animation instead of at the end, but Riot doesn't care.

Players are asking for Lux to be able to "pre-detonate" her E like Gragas can for his Q, but Riot doesn't care.

It's official: Lux is on the Riot "We don't care!" list.

EDIT: And judging by how fast the downvotes will be coming, the community doesn't care about her either. Even the Lux mains.

43 Comments

CrownPuffApr 6, 20157 votes

Lux and Viktor are two completely different mages. You can't just compare a spell to another spell, you have to compare entire kits. And even then, they are entirely different.

AbyssphereApr 6, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Lux and Viktor are two completely different mages. You can't just compare a spell to another spell, you have to compare entire kits. And even then, they are entirely different.

You could list a lot more mages than just Viktor. Yes, they're two random champions that can't be compared. But Lux absolutely can be compared to the rest of the mage class as a whole and considering wave clear is a basic quality of mages, it's a pretty major issue for her to fall down on.

The WhamboozlerApr 7, 20157 votes

Lux is one of my favorite champs in the game. She's fine. Leave her alone. She's sub-par in the tanky meta and the mana regen debacle hurt her pretty hard, but as the meta shifts she'll go back to being decent. She's never really been OP, and I don't want her to be. If she's pushed into being strong, all the 12 year olds will come on the forums and whine about her being too safe for someone who can do stuff and they'll nerf my fav mage. I'd rather see her stay as she is than see her become FotM and then thrown in the dumpster.

Leave Lux alone.

NagirahApr 7, 20151 votes

Exactly this!

CrownPuffApr 6, 20155 votes

Lux is terrible in the tank meta. She simply doesn't have enough burst nor does she have the sustained damage to stay in fights. It has nothing to do with her mana costs, she simply just does nothing for like 5-10 seconds after she bursts.

darkdillApr 6, 20155 votes

Nonetheless, it'd help if her E's mana cost wasn't 130 while also dealing low damage compared to every other mage.

Viktor can deal way more damage with his E, and it costs only 110 at level 5.

Sona PingApr 6, 201511 votes

It doesn't even have anything to do with tanks. Her E doesn't even do enough damage to kill caster minions reliably.

CrownPuffApr 6, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sona Ping,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QiviEr7X,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2015-04-06T10:44:06.868+0000)

It doesn't even have anything to do with tanks. Her E doesn't even do enough damage to kill caster minions reliably.

Plenty of mages can't one shot the caster minions with their wave clearing tool unless fed. Lux is strong in a meta in which she can one shot a target from 1500 range, unless she catches the ad out or maybe the mid out, she isn't going to do that in this meta.

Sona PingApr 6, 20154 votes

Well, I wasn't saying she should one shot an entire wave or anything. I still hold about her damage but I don't find your "unless fed" to be accurate, most mages don't need to be fed. Allow me to be more detailed with what I meant:

Lux's E doesn't even do enough damage (and especially not in a cost/value comparison); it's not even enough to kill the caster minions until far later into the game than other champion's comparable abilities. Lux also does worse with minions than other mages in lane as well. and Mages don't need to be fed to clear waves

Morgana's Soil reliably kills the casters at 3 points (which it absolutely should). Viktor reliably kills the casters with the laser at 3 points with the upgrade he would have by then. Veigar either W's then Q's a couple times to clear the entire wave while getting 4 stacks, until he either one shots with Q for stacks or just W's everything. While Lux... it is E then walk up to the danger zone and slowly AA each one, even two AA's per if early enough.

What really drives it home is URF, In URF her waveclear is somehow worse (because you don't AA in URF). You have to E multiple times while everyone else just blows everything up easily.

CrownPuffApr 6, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sona Ping,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QiviEr7X,comment-id=0000000100000000,timestamp=2015-04-06T11:44:35.541+0000)

Well, I wasn't saying she should one shot an entire wave or anything. I still hold about her damage but I don't find your "unless fed" to be accurate, most mages don't need to be fed. Allow me to be more detailed with what I meant:

Lux's E doesn't even do enough damage (and especially not in a cost/value comparison); it's not even enough to kill the caster minions until far later into the game than other champion's comparable abilities. Lux also does worse with minions than other mages in lane as well. and Mages don't need to be fed to clear waves

Morgana's Soil reliably kills the casters at 3 points (which it absolutely should). Viktor reliably kills the casters with the laser at 3 points with the upgrade he would have by then. Veigar either W's then Q's a couple times to clear the entire wave while getting 4 stacks, until he either one shots with Q for stacks or just W's everything. While Lux... it is E then walk up to the danger zone and slowly AA each one, even two AA's per if early enough.

What really drives it home is URF, In URF her waveclear is somehow worse (because you don't AA in URF). You have to E multiple times while everyone else just blows everything up easily.

I find comparing a ranged harass tool like lux E to perhaps the safest wave clearing tool in morg's W to be a stretch. Xerath q is an example of a comparable long range spell that cannot 1 shot the casters unless you're fed. TF q is another long range ability that can't 1 shot the back line. Honestly, if you're rushing cdr with Lux as you should be (grail/morello), Lux's wave clear is E+R which is honestly pretty good. And in the situation you described, it's easy to avoid the "danger zone" as long as you first auto the creeps before you pop the E. Therefore, the E still zones the enemy and you don't have to auto them afterwards to pop the passive in order to last hit.

AbyssphereApr 6, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I find comparing a ranged harass tool like lux E to perhaps the safest wave clearing tool in morg's W to be a stretch. Xerath q is an example of a comparable long range spell that cannot 1 shot the casters unless you're fed. TF q is another long range ability that can't 1 shot the back line. Honestly, if you're rushing cdr with Lux as you should be (grail/morello), Lux's wave clear is E+R which is honestly pretty good. And in the situation you described, it's easy to avoid the "danger zone" as long as you first auto the creeps before you pop the E. Therefore, the E still zones the enemy and you don't have to auto them afterwards to pop the passive in order to last hit.

I don't think "fed" is the right term. More, "reasonably far into your build path". But Lux has to go quite a bit further into her build path than other mages. I'm no Lux main but that's exactly why I noticed it when using her. Her E tends to leave the caster minions with like 10%+ of their health, at the point where other mages would have killed them in one spell.

And it's worse for Lux because E is her only waveclear spell aside from her R. At the point in the game where Xerath can't one-shot caster minions, his W is used to finish them off. Same for mages like Syndra, they can throw two abilities at the minions and forget about it. But Lux either has to blow her ult, basic attack repeatedly or wait for E to come off cooldown (which takes a while).

Can you not see why Lux is in a worse position than others in the wave clear department?

CrownPuffApr 6, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I don't think "fed" is the right term. More, "reasonably far into your build path". But Lux has to go quite a bit further into her build path than other mages. I'm no Lux main but that's exactly why I noticed it when using her. Her E tends to leave the caster minions with like 10%+ of their health, at the point where other mages would have killed them in one spell.

And it's worse for Lux because E is her only waveclear spell aside from her R. At the point in the game where Xerath can't one-shot caster minions, his W is used to finish them off. Same for mages like Syndra, they can throw two abilities at the minions and forget about it. But Lux either has to blow her ult, basic attack repeatedly or wait for E to come off cooldown (which takes a while).

Can you not see why Lux is in a worse position than others in the wave clear department?

But most mages don't have Lux's range. Yes it sucks that you have to auto the minions, but E (hold the detonation) ->auto the back line once ->pop E, will clear the back line. If Lux could 1 shot the back line from 1500 range or whatever her E is without significant ap, her laning would be even safer than it is now.

Lux's problem isn't her inability to one shot the back line, nor is it the 130 mana on her E. Lux needs to build cdr anyways, and the two popular cdr items come with mana regen+with blue you should be fine in team fights. Her problem is, she needs to land her full combo to make a comparable impact to the enemy mid, and she is gated by her cd's heavily. In a meta, where she cannot kill the front line, and since she has no mobility to get to the back line, she essentially needs setup or to bind the back line. Lux can work, but she's highly situational. Or you know, you can just dominate a lane as Lux, because its solo q. And since you crushed your enemy mid, it doesn't matter who you're playing. You'll win by the gold difference between you and your enemy laner.

ZephyrDrakeApr 6, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Plenty of mages can't one shot the caster minions with their wave clearing tool unless fed. Lux is strong in a meta in which she can one shot a target from 1500 range, unless she catches the ad out or maybe the mid out, she isn't going to do that in this meta.

true but they also don't pay stupid amounts of mana to fail at one shooting minions

AèrithApr 6, 20151 votes

This is the same reason why Lux wasn't considered good in Season 2 with the bruiser meta. She has no sustained damage. She's already gated by high mana cost. Other champions such as ziggs and orianna do not have cooldowns as long as hers. If Lux was designed again today I guarantee she would not have cooldowns that long, she's outdated.

BeatzBoyFTWApr 6, 20155 votes

EDIT: And judging by how fast the downvotes will be coming, the community doesn't care about her either. Even the Lux mains.

Is it because Lux mains knows how to handle her mana usage, while YOU can't? Js

Sona PingApr 6, 201517 votes

That can't be it; her mana costs are just legitimately ridiculous.

bradApr 6, 20155 votes

literally all anyone who plays this game does is cry like a fucking 4 year old and blame rito for not catering to them

i would tell you to shut the fuck up but the mods would remove it for "being a meanie" so instead im just gonna tell you to please be quiet

Curling VeigarApr 6, 20155 votes

she doesnt need buffs

Starcall CaseyApr 6, 20154 votes

Lux is a powerhouse that has little counterplay. If anything she'll be getting the veigar buffs treatment soon.

SwapShadowsApr 6, 20154 votes

Actually they do care, they care about their game.

doing all those buffs you just stated will literally overpower her, she isn't a bad pick atm; the main thing she lacks is proper waveclear that doesn't force her to auto so much.

AlgrimorApr 6, 20154 votes

Sure Lux could use a mana reduction buff on her E, but what she really needs is a new passive. Why give a long range poke mage an AA passive, it just never made sense with the rest of her kit. It's the reason her E does crap damage, because the passive damage is factored in to the balancing of her E.

And yes I know her ult procs her passive but they can simply increase the damage on her abilities to compensate for changing her passive and give her something useful.

edit: Also, I'm sorry op, maybe I'm misunderstanding you but

"Players are asking for her W's shield to be first applied to her at the start of the cast animation instead of at the end, but Riot doesn't care."

and

"Players are asking for Lux to be able to "pre-detonate" her E like Gragas can for his Q, but Riot doesn't care."

are exactly how those abilities currently work. Correct me if I'm misunderstanding you.

darkdillApr 6, 20152 votes

No, Lux's shield has a brief delay when she starts up the cast animation before she gets any shield. It's very short, but even a tiny delay is enough to kill you. Meanwhile Janna, Karma, and Lulu can all instantly shield themselves with no delay whatsoever.

As for Lux's E, she can't hit E while the projectile is in flight and make it detonate the second it reaches its destination. She can only detonate it after it's been there for about 0.1-0.2 seconds.

And I very much doubt Riot will give Lux a new passive. Her current one is an extra damage source that requires risk, which creates decision-based gameplay. Riot will never remove something like that unless decision-based gameplay suddenly becomes toxic.

AlgrimorApr 6, 20151 votes

Yea but it's never worth the risk. The damage is not really worth it in most scenarios, especially teamfights. It's basically just a damage boost to her ult if she hits another spell first. Id rather see something more interesting, or something that meshes better with her kit.

qetzelApr 7, 20151 votes

I think the reason for her Es lower damage (and it has a 60% AP ratio, so isn't low later on) is because it is effectively undodgeable (light exaggeration) from long range. This is also the reason for the high mana cost (the only other basic abilities I can think of that have comparable costs are extreme mobility tools such as Fizz's E and Leblanc's W).

And her AA passive is there to force her to interact with her opponents. Riot doesn't want a champion in lane and beyond that is untouchable. Her passive is required for gameplay.

Both of these are incredibly annoying for the Lux player, but if you think about it from the position of Lux's opponents the reasoning becomes clear.

Sir YamazukiApr 6, 20154 votes

Riot, nor Lux mains have anything to say because you refuse to improve as a player and instead blame the fact you lose as Lux on her being "weak" rather than you being a poor Lux player. You keep saying she gets hard countered by every mage and assassin, and every mage and assassin you bring up she has a win rate against them between 50~57%. If she is able to win her games half to more than half the time against her "hard counters", it must mean she isn't weak at all, or it suggests you have absolutely no idea how to play against them as Lux, and are again scapegoating rather than admitting the issue at hand is how you play as opposed to how the champion works. There is nothing Riot nor Lux mains have to say that will leave you satisfactory, anyone that plays Lux all the time obviously think she was/is fine other than the bug that got fixed recently, and if Riot thought she needed buffs then she would've gotten them, the fact Riot fixed the bug that affected Lux is a clear indicator she isn't being ignored. I don't see a whole lot of people asking for Lux buffs other than you, who are basically the only one making Lux threads... or the few people who don't even play Lux but is repeating the same line of "high mana costs" over and over without ever really playing her.

If her shield, or her mana costs, were truly a problem, then she would have never ever been picked as a support and she wouldn't have ever been able to maintain win rate of slightly over 50% as a mid laner. Not only that, but out of the "mages", she is one of the most picked for mid lane, she's the 6th picked mage and 11th overall for Mid out of of like 50 options for mid lane while having an average win rate. She's been doing well in soloq as a mid laner and has had a good pick rate no matter what champions have been picked, didn't matter if it was tanks, assassins, mages, what ever, she still wins half to more of her games while being picked a fair amount. A champion performing well during many different scenarios proves they are not weak.

Doctor DymentApr 6, 20153 votes

Um, so... yeah. Shut up. You people cry and beg for immediate results, and when you don't get them you cry even more. How do you know that Riot isn't trying something right now, but just isn't telling you about it? Why would Riot go out of their way to tell you all the changes to every champion in the next couple of patches. What would be the point of waiting until the release date then? Might as well release ten patches at once and crash everybody's computers.

RisurinApr 6, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Players are asking for her E's mana cost to be reduced, as 130 mana at level 5 is NASTY, but Riot doesn't care.

Players are asking for her W's shield to be first applied to her at the start of the cast animation instead of at the end, but Riot doesn't care.

Players are asking for Lux to be able to "pre-detonate" her E like Gragas can for his Q, but Riot doesn't care.

It's official: Lux is on the Riot "We don't care!" list.

EDIT: And judging by how fast the downvotes will be coming, the community doesn't care about her either. Even the Lux mains.

while i thank you for making things official (lol), i dont think that because riot isnt balancing the game around w/e the board ask, it means they dont care about 1 specific champion. In fact, its the opposite...they care about the game so much they dont want to ruin it with any hasty stuff the board will come up with. And for what we know, they could have something planned for lux, and its jsut not a priority right now.

The RaidbringerApr 6, 20153 votes

Most people don't remember, but there was a time when Lux was a meta pick. That was before Fizz and Zed existed, before the midlane was dominated by assassins. Anivia and Lux were the top picks. I don't want this time to come again. Lux was absolutely disgusting when she won lane and all she had to do was press R on your team in every teamfight ever.

darkdillApr 6, 20152 votes

Well, yeah, that was before Fizz and Zed, who HARD-COUNTER Lux. Since Lux has hard-counters, she isn't a super-safe pick anymore, so she'll never hit that top pick status again.

I'd just like for her not to be so inferior to other mid-laners due to mana burnouts and clunky skills.

And remember, Katarina also hard-counters Lux.

YOU BEEN WARNEDApr 7, 20152 votes

Wtf, they just fixed her ult laser+passive bug.

They also buffed item 3174 's.

Calm down, things don't need to all happen within one patch. I literally saw the "Hurr durr why pick lux" argument rise last patch.

MillForMeApr 7, 20152 votes

Is this how it starts? I'm going to try and organize my thoughts for this. Passive: I've never had a problem with it. It's not something you should use aggressively, but instead against champs that try to close the gap on you. Think of it as a weapon against ALL of your counters. Q: IT HITS TWO ENEMIES W: While it SUCKS that you stop to cast it, it's also part of the weakness and counterplay. Lux is all range, her position is vital. E: That cost sucks, but mana regen is a must either way. You'll live if you're skilled enough. R: I want my 24 cd ult back.

But seriously, Lux is fine. The meta isn't suited for her, but she still does her job well. She's safe, while offering counterplay against her. You make her too safe, by removing the negatives from her W, or giving her E the ability to detonate on the fly, despite where you aimed it, and you're simply taking away the few things that give champs counterplay against her. We all know what happened the last time she was 'too safe'

Obviously, it's frustrating because champs that handle lux well are popular, but those champs aren't mid lane. Most popular mids always counter lux. She's a champ with clear strengths and weaknesses. If you play them right, and your team doesn't feed, you'll be fine.

PineappleTuesdayApr 7, 20152 votes

Lux needs SOMETHING to help her out. I main lux and here are my concerns:

If you don't land your full combo, which is all skill shots, your damage is so lackluster that you aren't a concern as once your abilities are on cooldown you do nothing.
Your only wave clear other than your R is your E, which has an absolutely terrible damage/cost ratio. Paying 130 mana to not actually kill any of the minions is not really an option in the earlier parts of the game when you haven't been able to stack mana regen yet.
Her passive doesn't fit with the rest of her kit. She is based around being a long range burst mage (damage abilities ranges are 1175, 1100, and 3000 for Q, E, and R respectively) but in order to use her passive for more than just 1 proc from your R you have to be within 550 range to use her excessively clunky and easy to accidentally cancel auto attack. So effectively you either forfeit most of the damage from your passive by staying at long range or you forfeit your safety by moving into auto attack range. God help you if you get caught trying to get in to pop that passive right after using your snare.
Just for the heck of it I'll point out that we still have nothing at all after you promised us a good NON MILITARY Lux skin after the travesty that is Steel Legion Lux was released over 2 years ago.

Do I think all of these need adjusted? Not necessarily. More than anything I feel her E needs a mana cost reduction possibly in addition to a slight damage buff, but not a damage buff without a mana cost reduction because 130 mana to check a bush and make sure you aren't about to get exploded is insane. Her passive definitely isn't ideal, but I'm not sure what to suggest since making each additional spell pop the existing mark is the only way to keep the current concept but make it actually useful would effectively make her do too much damage. Maybe allow other spells to pop it or allow allies to pop the mark similar to Leona's mark but reduce the damage it does to compensate for the increased frequency of the detonation. Id also like the skin I was promised 2 years ago.

Also, "Hi I'm Brad," if you don't like hearing people discuss possible changes to champions maybe you shouldn't read the forum dedicated to that practice.

Original QuitterApr 6, 20151 votes

Lux has been forgotten about for a long time. I think season 3 was the last time she was even given some QoL buffs.

Her issue is that 130 mana does not even kill off the caster minions unless you are at 90% of max potential CS and have purchased your items with that gold.

She also lacks damage potential and has to come into range for her passive. Just play someone else. They will never give her the simple buffs she needs to be good again.

LuggApr 6, 20151 votes

Lux is actually pretty balanced at the moment. Her mana costs really aren't any worse than most mages. Her shield being applied at the start would make it double applied when it came back, that would be OP. Lux can pre-detonate her E, not sure where that came from. While she isn't perfect, there are champs that need adjustments much more than her.

darkdillApr 6, 20152 votes

You misunderstand the shield bit. Lux gets the first application of her shield at the end of its cast animation. That delay gets her killed a LOT of the time. If she got the shield at the start of the cast instead of the end, it'd be more responsive.

And no, Lux can't pre-detonate her E like Gragas can. What I meant by it is that Gragas can hit Q a second time right before the barrel reaches its destination, and it'll explode the instant it gets there. Lux is left with a 0.1-0.2 second delay before she can detonate her E. That's REALLY clunky.

Sightless66Apr 6, 20151 votes

They did recently buff Athene's and give Lux that buff/bugfix allowing her passive to properly have an AP ratio when proced by her ult. Both of those help a decent amount. I think she's in a pretty decent place right now. I'd like the pre-detonation thing just for QoL purposes, but aside from that I don't think anything is really necessary.

yukonlApr 6, 20151 votes

Maybe some QOL changes such as removing the cast time of her E, Q, or W. Honestly she feels really clunky when I'm forced to stop to cast any of my spells.

TerchioApr 6, 20151 votes

She has a lot of power for being able to kite so well. So her sustain takes a hit. Heck, she still has a shield... I don't see the need on a long-range champion with multiple forms of CC. High mana cost seems acceptable to me.

And as for the W, the skill is a projectile. Just be glad it actually hits you without some crafty junk like Ezreal's W + E.

Pre-detonate is viable. Heck, I think the bots are having trouble with that one, as it seems most Lux Bots will detonate quickly half the time, and not at all the other half. I'd agree on the pre-detonate, but nothing else.

LQ9tcXETvNApr 6, 20151 votes

I agree. I'd love to run a normal 700-800 ap Lux build with Morello/Zhonyas/Rabadons/Void/ etc. But because of the E cost, I've been having to run Morello, Athenes which is less damage but at least I can stay in a fight for more than one burst. And the e is her only means to wave clear so it's difficult to farm with the costs.

Silents429Apr 7, 20151 votes

Did they not JUST fix a QOL bug for her with her passive and ult like a patch ago?

BakedLotionApr 7, 20151 votes

Riot hasn't responded a single time to Lux threads. Meanwhile anytime someone says something about LeeSin Nidalee Azir Zed Yasuo Xerath , etc. They immediately respond....

ScrimshäwApr 7, 20151 votes

lux is like xerath, except it's impossible to miss anything, and she can hit all five enemy players with her near instant ult that deals more damage than all three of xerath's 3 shots...

NagirahApr 7, 20151 votes

Lux main here. I think if they just reduce mana cost on her E she will be completely fine. She doesn't need anything else really, except maybe some very small QoL changes to make her less clunky to play.