When Malphite uses his ground slam, frozen heart, and randuins omen...

Critkeeper··87 votes·8,964 views

for a total of 64% attack speed slow, bringing me from 1.96 attacks per second to 0.7 attacks per second...

oh well should have picked yi and pressed r so I can have 2.5 attacks per second instead because attack speed slows count as slows.

Yi literally does 2.7x the damage to malphite than any other champion could do just considering attack speed, not even accounting double strike or his true damage.

Alright well thats not a huge deal-- i can live with champion counters-- so maybe malphite is just countered really hard by yi in that regard. Maybe. Or maybe being immune to attack speed slows makes yi a better tank killer than anyone else including trundle, even if they don't have innate attack speed slows in their kits-- lets calculate it:

1 / (0.85 * 0.85) = 1.384

So yi does nearly 40% more damage to anyone with frozen heart and randuins omen than anyone else can ever hope to, and that isn't including the on hit true damage or double strike-- just the immunity to attack speed slows.

40%.

Forty fucking percent. Think about that for a moment. Thats like having 400 attack damage at 6 items as Trynd, then getting a boost from an active that temporarily gives you 160 bonus attack damage. Yi's immunity to attack speed slows is worth 160 bonus attack damage all by itself against targets with randuins while within the effect of frozen heart, and worth an astronomical 680 bonus attack damage against a tanky malphite with groundslam. Like holy shit.

The amount of damage yi does from his double strike, on hit true damage, immunity to attack speed slows, 80% attack speed boost, and immense speed allowing him to land attacks at full attack speed against moving targets is so fucking enormous it makes Tryndamere look like a fucking chump.

I've been playing a bit of master yi top, and even though he isn't that great in the early game it doesn't matter because he scales harder than anyone-- i'd say he even scales harder than nasus, and nasus never stops scaling. I've seen yi pentakill pretty much by himself when ahead, and I've done it twice myself, but i've never seen nasus do anything like that. Nasus is much easier to play around because he can be kited and whittled down, but a good yi will kill two people in the blink of an eye and one of them will be your tank.

I'm not saying this as a complaint. I like Yi. I'm saying this because I'm trying to rationalize why I should keep playing Tryndamere top when I could just play Yi top. It really doesn't matter how hard I dominate with Trynd, the enemy is eventually going to build randuins and frozen heart and become tanky as shit. I could just play Yi instead and kill them over and over and laugh at their armor, then group and pentakill their team. I don't see a point in playing Trynd when Yi exists. Hell I don't see a point in playing Trynd when Fiora exists.

144 Comments

Nyhver21 votes

Yi has a lot of power

he's one of those champions that you can do really well with despite having little to no skill by virtue of kit

Fat Bastard GOD12 votes

Despite his name having the name "Master" in it. Guess he mastered right clicking.

ARequestOfDeath12 votes

when you can dodge using alpha strike you have truely mastered yi

Masala Chai3 votes

W auto reset.

iamleburk4 votes

IF you can dodge in alpha strike. That's got to be the most buggy ability in the game. Look up the youtube video "I was in Alpha!!!", it's a compilation of some hardcore Master Yi main screaming every time Alpha strike bugs the fuck out, which is often.

Also, W auto reset

EfficientDynamo5 votes

He does have a really low skill floor, but his skill ceiling is pretty high as well. High enough that there are advantages to mastering him that simply aren't available for many other champs (e.g. Annie).

resumed14 votes

malphit op bc he lit counters my entire team... someone that powerful shouldnt exist...

my team looks like this btw

Quinn Ezreal Graves Lucian Thresh

kile1474 votes

Surprise, Ez is AP and laughs at your armor.

resumed16 votes

BUT MAH BLUE EZREAL BUILD

Stephenizgod13 votes

lmfao I laugh when people say Malphite is OP, then you look at their team comp against him and they are all Marksmen... its like "So a champion specifically designed to counter that very team, counters that very team? wow Rito plz nerf your champion is working exactly as intended...".

However as a Malphite main, I think Malphite's ult has some serious game health issues. It doesn't matter how I do in lane, as long as I can ult and hit 2 carries and my team follows up, we win almost any teamfight.

Saianna11 votes

Going with that logic Tryndameres ultimate is nothing more than 2-3 additional warmogs worth of HP for 5~s.

Yes, Yi counters most of speed-debuffing champions. There are also counters to health stacking (Vayne/Kog) Armor/MR stacking (Kayle, Trundle Xin)

On top of that you say what Yi can do with his ultimates against Malphite. Cho'Gath would just need to press R for the same effect. Darius would have to hit u few more times to do the same thing.

Critkeeper8 votes

{quoted}

Going with that logic Tryndameres ultimate is nothing more than 2-3 additional warmogs worth of HP for 5~s.

Yes, Yi counters most of speed-debuffing champions. There are also counters to health stacking (Vayne/Kog) Armor/MR stacking (Kayle, Trundle Xin)

On top of that you say what Yi can do with his ultimates against Malphite. Cho'Gath would just need to press R for the same effect. Darius would have to hit u few more times to do the same thing.

This isn't really about whether yi counters malphite, its about whether or not it even makes sense to play tryndamere anymore.

You could just play yi or fiora instead and do his job twice as well as he could do it. Tryndamere is just counterbuilt too easy and he doesn't get anything for it-- there is no tradeoff for him relying purely on physical damage through crit auto attacks-- the easiest thing to counter build in the game.

Does he get a good team fight? No. thats fiora, jax, yasuo and yi.

Does he get good dueling power? Yeah, against anyone who doesn't counterbuild him. Fiora has similar dueling power and can't be counterbuilt, might as well pick her.

Does he get good chasing power? Not really. He has no speed boost and his slow is extremely telegraphed, and his dash is the slowest in the game, he's a little better at it than yasuo and jax and worse at it than fiora and yi.

Does he atleast kill towers fast? Not as fast as yi, you can't crit a tower. He takes towers a little faster than jax.

Does he have good control over baron and dragon? No better than jax, or yi.

Is he hard to catch? Not really because no speed boost, though he can spin over walls. He's about as hard to catch as jax.

He's just bad at doing his job. Other champions do it better.

Saianna2 votes

Oh..

I really though this thread is one of "Yi is OP". Trynd is OK imo. Because even if you get slowed hard, your AS dissapears, you still have 6 seconds of ultimate to make up for that.

Yi does in 10s (ultimate) the same thing Tryndamere does in 16~ (time before dying + ult).

Critkeeper4 votes

{quoted}

Oh..

I really though this thread is one of "Yi is OP". Trynd is OK imo. Because even if you get slowed hard, your AS dissapears, you still have 6 seconds of ultimate to make up for that.

Yi does in 10s (ultimate) the same thing Tryndamere does in 16~ (time before dying + ult).

Trynd's ult is 5 seconds and he lasts for about 3 without it. You can expect to be alive for around 8 seconds as Trynd, and actually be hitting targets for 3 or 4 seconds.

Yi moves so fast he doesn't actually spend a significant amount of time catching up between auto attacks against a running target and his ult lasts much longer. He dies to focus fire, but comparing their ults in any regard is nonsense.

Saianna2 votes

how long you survive as trynda/yi depends on when you join the fight.

In Yi's case he's fragile and has resets thus he should be coming in late to just finishing targets (unless we talk about that abomination, tank yi)

While Trynda is slightly more durable. You still try to dodge Malphite, because if he slammed you, then he most likely also ulted to get to you.

All that's left is your position on each teamfight. But honestly I do believe he is OK, maybe i lack your experience with Trynda :)

Baunjo2 votes

I think you are under the impression that trynd should just be a devourer jungle. I personally do not like feeling pretty useless to my team until I get devourer, hence why I do not really play yi anymore unless I'm in a premade or normals.

Tryndamere does not have anything in his kit that really makes devourer tick, Yi has true damage and Jax has on hit AP. Xin is the same as tryndamere, although he actually has CC to help his team.

I have NEVER liked tryndamere jungle, if I play trynd I sit my happy little ass in top lane split pushing my little heart out until I get inhib, then go to bot lane.

Not sure why trynd was labeled as a devourer jungle tbh :/ he was only good with old feral flare

Auz the Ripper1 votes

Trynd has AP ratios that somewhat justify devourer/rageblade and I think his rage generation is an on-hit effect that sated can affect.

I assume that's the excuse for devourer trynd

Baunjo1 votes

The key word there is " somewhat " your E is not going to be that useful to you. Using your Q at any time while fighting unless you barely got out of ult is a stupid idea. I really don't see the benefit in building devourer with him when all he really gets is harder hitting auto attacks. You can still get that from not being useless for 15 minutes.

TheOvermind3 votes

You misunderstand, if you are malphite you can simply Q and walk away from Darius or Kayle, with Master yi, when he comes for you you have too either 1v1 and kill him or else he will butcher you. And let's be honest Malphite can't 1v1 for shit.

Sire Hippington2 votes

which is why you use his hard initiation ult to force a teamfight rather than trying to 1v1 a champ that is designed to be strong 1v1 with a champ that is meant to force teamfights - It's like complaining that you can't 1v1 talon with Jinx.

I don't think yi is well or healthy designed, but he for sure isn't the free win people make him out to be.

Levik9 votes

The counter to Master Yi is a fear. He runs away so fast during his ult it is hilarious.

LadyRenly3 votes

{quoted}

The counter to Master Yi is a fear. He runs away so fast during his ult it is hilarious.

5 Fiddlesticks vs 5 Master Yis was the most hilarious thing ever in One for All last year. Sandwich an ulted yi and enjoy the ping pong match

DorkunedAuras8 votes

Yi being immune to AS slows shouldn't be.

Wenderwall1 votes

{quoted}

Yi being immune to AS slows shouldn't be.

Yi isn't immure to AS slows. That is bs. His passive + item 3931+item 3124 + ult takes him to >2AS and with 15% AS slow, his AS is still high. Donno why it is floating around that Yi is AS immune. He is MS immune if ult is active.

CrazedPorcupine11 votes

his ult makes him immune to ALL SLOWS, this includes AS slows.

Spaceman5pff1 votes

I guess that makes sense on a technicality. But it isn't very clear at the surface.

I have been playing for about 2 years now, and only just today found out Yi is immune to attack speed slows.

Atanchan1 votes

To be fair, this was changed a while back because they thought it was odd that AS slows weren't included in slow resistance.

After all, it doesn't say he's immune to movement speed slows, it says he's immune to slows straight-up.

Spaceman5pff1 votes

I know, I know. It is just that it is a detail that doesn't seem intuitive.

Alytrox6 votes

Meanwhile, playing any other AS champion vs. Malphite makes this game so enjoyable!

Urgonnalearn2day51 votes

{quoted}

Meanwhile, playing any other AS champion vs. Malphite makes this game so enjoyable!

Damn you mean there's a counter pick in a moba?

Wow this just blew my mind!

Alytrox2 votes

{quoted}

Damn you mean there's a counter pick in a moba?

Wow this just blew my mind!

Show me a counter pick to Malphite then.That counters him in every possible way.

YumaS2Astral103 votes

{quoted}

Show me a counter pick to Malphite then.That counters him in every possible way.

Maokai

Does magic damage, therefore rendering Malphite's armor stacking useless.

Is a caster, therefore does not care about Malphite having attack speed debuffs

Can outsustain Malphite with his passive

Malphite is vulnerable to ganks, and Maokai is a strong grank follower with his snare.

Maokai's ult counter Malphite's ult and any possible follow ups.

He is a tree, and Malphite is a stone. As you know, Grass does super-effective damage against Rock.

Hard Penetrator9 votes

Mao isn't a counter to Malph, he just goes even. Vlad from the other hand will double Malph cs.

YumaS2Astral4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hard Penetrator,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QblAnZG8,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2016-03-21T20:10:58.340+0000)

Mao isn't a counter to Malph, he just goes even. Vlad from the other hand will double Malph cs.

I am a main Vladimir and on my opinion, Vladimir is technically a counter in the sense that he can survive the laning phase against Malphite and then outsustain him and outduel him. The problem is that Vlad can't stop Malphite from doing his job on teamfights, and Vlad offers little utility for his team, unlike Malphite which offers tons of utility for his team. So Vladimir is a shaky counter.

Penta Penguin5 votes

"can't stop Malphite from doing his job on teamfights"

Literally no one can and nobody should be able to, that's what Malphite does. Outside of that one button he doesn't do things much better than other tanks though

dapositiveviking12 votes

literally called unstoppable force

PeachsProperty10 votes

just need a champion with "immovable object" as their R to be made specifically to counter him ;)

StarGuardianSion4 votes

{quoted}

just need a champion with "immovable object" as their R to be made specifically to counter him ;)

Bard

Mistress Madoka5 votes

According to science an unstoppable force and an immovable object would both pass through eachother without actually touching. Infinite energy and stuff.

Because technically an unstoppable force and an Immovable object are infact the exact same thing

Sugar Momma3 votes

Upvoted for your last point :^)

charcharmunro22 votes

Singed. Magic damage means Malphite's weaker because he has to build MR over armor. Constant poison means Malphite's shield isn't up as often as he'd like. Singed is not attack-speed reliant in the slightest for anything so Malphite's E does jackshit to him. Singed can kite him around for days even with Malphite's Q, especially once he's got a Rylai's. Malphite's ult is about the only threat to Singed. AP Malphite CAN be an issue for Singed, but if you're going AP Malphite toplane your team is probably down a proper tank.

Urgonnalearn2day7 votes

{quoted}

Show me a counter pick to Malphite then.That counters him in every possible way.

Diana, ekko, Rumble, vlad? On my phone at work.

Ekko has probably the fanciest outplay potential. You literally can stop malphite's engage and potentially stun his follow up while getting your shield. His Aoe attack slow is over at that point and he has cooldowns. You meanwhile are tearing into that rocky booty like he cheated on you after you proposed.

The Yetii Rider18 votes

{quoted}

Show me a counter pick to Malphite then.That counters him in every possible way.

Morgana.

Want to slow me down and steal my MS? Get snared for the entire duration.

Hoping to ult in and burst me down? Black Shield absorbs your ult damage and I'm not knocked up.

Want to out duel me with Ground Slam? My auto attacks can't be slowed. They're a little pool at your feet that eat away at you.

Trying to initiate with no escape afterwards? Have a 2 second slow and a 2 second stun into a 3 second snare.

Morgana tears Malphite to shreds.

Ariel the Cruel4 votes

Ok. going to help AND hurt your claim here.


Help:

Yi also has an artificial AS buff with his passive. Which then gets amplified by Sated, because his passive stacks on-hit and applies on-hit effects. Effectively what this translates into is more AA's for any given AS.

"After landing 3 basic attacks, Master Yi's next basic attack within 4 seconds strikes twice..."

A=Auto attack, P=Passive Auto attack, S=Sated Ghost hit So normally 12 AA's on Yi = 15. A -> A -> A -> A+P -> A -> A -> A+P -> A -> A -> A+P -> A -> A With Sated he gets 17 A -> A+S -> A+P+S -> A -> A+P+S -> A+P+S -> A -> A+S -> A+P+S -> A+P+S -> A -> A+S

Now 2 AA's alone aren't that big of a deal. Until you consider that Yi has 3 on-hit effects in his kit: passive, Alpha Strike, and true damage.

Alpha Strike's Cooldown is reduced by 1 second for every AA. At max rank, it has a 14 second CD. Ignoring cooldown timer, Yi could use it twice in a normal 12 AA chain (beginning and end). With Sated, he could use it roughly 2.7 times. Not that big a difference, until you remember we ignored natural cooldown. Add it back in, and Yi can effectively get 3 alpha strikes when he would have normally gotten 2.

But now for the real terror: his 22%AD on-hit true damage. Without sated, Yi 12 AA's becomes 15. Meaning he applies true damage 15 times. With sated he AA's 17 times, BUT he applies on-hit effects TWENTY-FIVE times. That means he is dealing about 83% more true damage than normal with those 12 AA's. But just for the sake of demonstration, let us look at non-percent values. 20 true damage on-hit (I know this is low). Normal: 20x15 = 300 Sated: 20 x 25 = 500

Yi is a horrid abuser of Sated RageBlade. But the popularity of the combo has caused a lot of people to overlook the impact of individual items. Sated just breaks the F out of him.


Hurt:

Slows don't stack. Only the strongest effect applies and weaker effects become inert (They're still there in case the stronger effect wears off). So stacking FH and Omen on Malphite is a waste.

Critkeeper3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ariel the Cruel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QblAnZG8,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2016-03-21T18:26:00.709+0000)

Ok. going to help AND hurt your claim here.


Help:

Yi also has an artificial AS buff with his passive. Which then gets amplified by Sated, because his passive stacks on-hit and applies on-hit effects. Effectively what this translates into is more AA's for any given AS.

"After landing 3 basic attacks, Master Yi's next basic attack within 4 seconds strikes twice..."

A=Auto attack, P=Passive Auto attack, S=Sated Ghost hit So normally 12 AA's on Yi = 15. A -> A -> A -> A+P -> A -> A -> A+P -> A -> A -> A+P -> A -> A With Sated he gets 17 A -> A+S -> A+P+S -> A -> A+P+S -> A+P+S -> A -> A+S -> A+P+S -> A+P+S -> A -> A+S

Now 2 AA's alone aren't that big of a deal. Until you consider that Yi has 3 on-hit effects in his kit: passive, Alpha Strike, and true damage.

Alpha Strike's Cooldown is reduced by 1 second for every AA. At max rank, it has a 14 second CD. Ignoring cooldown timer, Yi could use it twice in a normal 12 AA chain (beginning and end). With Sated, he could use it roughly 2.7 times. Not that big a difference, until you remember we ignored natural cooldown. Add it back in, and Yi can effectively get 3 alpha strikes when he would have normally gotten 2.

But now for the real terror: his 22%AD on-hit true damage. Without sated, Yi 12 AA's becomes 15. Meaning he applies true damage 15 times. With sated he AA's 17 times, BUT he applies on-hit effects TWENTY-FIVE times. That means he is dealing about 83% more true damage than normal with those 12 AA's. But just for the sake of demonstration, let us look at non-percent values. 20 true damage on-hit (I know this is low). Normal: 20x15 = 300 Sated: 20 x 25 = 500

Yi is a horrid abuser of Sated RageBlade. But the popularity of the combo has caused a lot of people to overlook the impact of individual items. Sated just breaks the F out of him.


Hurt:

Slows don't stack. Only the strongest effect applies and weaker effects become inert (They're still there in case the stronger effect wears off). So stacking FH and Omen on Malphite is a waste.

Technically, for whatever reason, the attack speed slows do actually stack.

You can test this for yourself.

TheOvermind2 votes

Master yi is perhaps the only champion in the game that can take on a 1000 stack full build Nasus, simply because Wither doesn't do jackshit to Yi and well let's not forget about all that true damage.

TheVishual1 votes

{quoted}

for a total of 64% attack speed slow, bringing me from 1.96 attacks per second to 0.7 attacks per second...

oh well should have picked yi and pressed r so I can have 2.5 attacks per second instead because attack speed slows count as slows.

Yi literally does 2.7x the damage to malphite than any other champion could do just considering attack speed, not even accounting double strike or his true damage.

Alright well thats not a huge deal-- i can live with champion counters-- so maybe malphite is just countered really hard by yi in that regard. Maybe. Or maybe being immune to attack speed slows makes yi a better tank killer than anyone else including trundle, even if they don't have innate attack speed slows in their kits-- lets calculate it:

1 / (0.85 * 0.85) = 1.384

So yi does nearly 40% more damage to anyone with frozen heart and randuins omen than anyone else can ever hope to, and that isn't including the on hit true damage or double strike-- just the immunity to attack speed slows.

40%.

Forty fucking percent. Think about that for a moment. Thats like having 400 attack damage at 6 items as Trynd, then getting a boost from an active that temporarily gives you 160 bonus attack damage. Yi's immunity to attack speed slows is worth 160 bonus attack damage all by itself against targets with randuins while within the effect of frozen heart, and worth an astronomical 680 bonus attack damage against a tanky malphite with groundslam. Like holy shit.

The amount of damage yi does from his double strike, on hit true damage, immunity to attack speed slows, 80% attack speed boost, and immense speed allowing him to land attacks at full attack speed against moving targets is so fucking enormous it makes Tryndamere look like a fucking chump.

I've been playing a bit of master yi top, and even though he isn't that great in the early game it doesn't matter because he scales harder than anyone-- i'd say he even scales harder than nasus, and nasus never stops scaling. I've seen yi pentakill pretty much by himself when ahead, and I've done it twice myself, but i've never seen nasus do anything like that. Nasus is much easier to play around because he can be kited and whittled down, but a good yi will kill two people in the blink of an eye and one of them will be your tank.

I'm not saying this as a complaint. I like Yi. I'm saying this because I'm trying to rationalize why I should keep playing Tryndamere top when I could just play Yi top. It really doesn't matter how hard I dominate with Trynd, the enemy is eventually going to build randuins and frozen heart and become tanky as shit. I could just play Yi instead and kill them over and over and laugh at their armor, then group and pentakill their team. I don't see a point in playing Trynd when Yi exists. Hell I don't see a point in playing Trynd when Fiora exists.

How much PCP did you have to smoke before you thought highlander's movement speed cleanse applied to attack speed as well?

Please stop spreading false info

willuwontu2 votes

Have you played yi? You can test it in custom games with a friend, pick yi have them pick malphite maxing E first, have them E outside of your ult and note your attack speed, have them e when you've ulted and note that your attack speed doesn't change.

TheVishual1 votes

{quoted}

Have you played yi? You can test it in custom games with a friend, pick yi have them pick malphite maxing E first, have them E outside of your ult and note your attack speed, have them e when you've ulted and note that your attack speed doesn't change.

the only time it reduces aspeed slow is in the case of when an aspeed and mspeed slow are tied to the same ability

Critkeeper3 votes

{quoted}

the only time it reduces aspeed slow is in the case of when an aspeed and mspeed slow are tied to the same ability

Yi's ultimate makes him immune to any attack speed slow, even those that have no other cc attached to them like frozen heart. Test it yourself.

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