Ziggs bot is okay but not Veigar bot?

Glîtchy·May 6, 2017·2 votes·985 views

So I went Veigar bot just now and explained to my team that I am still practicing with ADC champs so I had to go Veigar bot since I was autofilled, and no one bothered to offer when I asked if we could trade, and then afterwards they said I was "intentionally feeding and trolling" when they seemed to completely ignore my words, I won't get in trouble for "trolling" would I?

Plus I don't see why Veigar bot is SO bad compared to Ziggs bot, why do they have a problem with Vei but not Ziggs?

18 Comments

oSEXYPLATYPUSoMay 6, 20173 votes

ziggs bot works because of his passive and the way it applies to structures

and his wave clear and poke

GlîtchyMay 6, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QPuTHpc3,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-05-06T23:08:10.922+0000)

ziggs bot works because of his passive and the way it applies to structures

and his wave clear and poke

What about them reporting me for "trolling" even though I tried trading and explained that I couldn't play ADC's effectively yet?

LostFr0stMay 6, 20175 votes

Reporting someone for playing a certain champ isn't going to end in anything. You're fine.

hater free zoneMay 6, 20171 votes

also his satchel charge (w) instantly destroys turrets at <25% HP. Ziggs is a sieging monster.

StaconaMay 7, 20171 votes

passive does more damage than that

hater free zoneMay 7, 20171 votes

I'm just saying that the W will immediately destroy the turret if it's hp is that low. Not that it deals enough damage to destroy it, but it's effect is straight up 'destroy' turret.

GlîtchyMay 7, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I'm just saying that the W will immediately destroy the turret if it's hp is that low. Not that it deals enough damage to destroy it, but it's effect is straight up 'destroy' turret.

Not gonna lie, that ability seems pretty bullshit with that in mind.

CobaltTheMadMageMay 6, 20173 votes

Ziggs has better AA range and damage, plus a passive that gives him glorious BS pushing power and synergizes disturbingly well with items like Nashor's Tooth and Lichbane. Plus IMO his poke is a bit better suited for trading duo lane than what Veigar does.

StaconaMay 7, 20171 votes

margin for error AA range, so not really, no. Ziggs has synergy with Lichbane if you are going for the passive build where you auto a lot, but doesn't have synergy at all with Nashor's unless you really wanted to over kill objectives.

Veigar doesn't have sustain damage or any way to take objectives easily.

SirTeemoMushroomMay 7, 20171 votes

veigar is a good mid laner , because of his combo E-W-Q which deals massive damage and the final touch R which is a free kill at a certain amount of health . playing vs 2 champions though and getting caught is a dead end . you gonna die unless you flash , because veigar has no escapes .

Reaper SorakaMay 7, 20171 votes

Neither of them have sustained damage so I don't like supporting them. Both of them can whiff their combo, but ziggs will have a satchel charge to escape or siege with. Veigar has a great stun, but against a competent opponent he won't be able to make something happen.

Pref urgot over either of these. Consistent high damage is the ADC way.

StaconaMay 7, 20171 votes

Ziggs has quite a bit of sustain damage with 45% CDR while weaving in autos

dim2aMay 7, 20171 votes

Veig is not a great botlane carry for reasons mentioned, unless you have an adc elsewhere on your team (vayne top, quinn jungle, etc). However if you asked for a trade, and they didn't, and you're playing the champion you're comfortable with, it's not punishable, so you're fine. In fact if they report it, chances are their future reports will carry less weight, since riot adjusts weight of reports based on how frequently one does "false reports". So play what you can, don't worry about it, and mute your team if necessary.

P.S. I think the main reason veig bot is not great unless adc is present elsewhere is that your team lacks sustained damage, veig is mostly burst. If they have no tanks, it doesn't matter much, but if they do, your team might have a hard time killing them without an adcs. Some apcs (AP mid) do good sustained damage, but if that's the case, then your team is heavily AP, so their tanks load up on MR and you have a problem late game. But all these considerations are secondary to playing a champion you're comfortable with.

StaconaMay 7, 20171 votes

Support

dim2aMay 7, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Support

I meant as carry bot (as I believe that is what OP is referring to). As support what I said does not apply, as you are not expect to be a primary sustained damage dealer anyway. Doesn't mean you can't be, but if you're not, other meta roles cover that.

StaconaMay 7, 20171 votes

Veigar doesn't have the sustain damage or objective taking Ziggs does, if you want to play Veigar in the bottom lane just play him as support, and as a proper support and not full AP; Veigar's cage is one of the most powerful abilities in the game.

StatcomanMay 8, 20171 votes

Ziggs is trash to be honest compared to Veigar. Once you get a kill it's pretty much game over for their bot lane. I started this season in Bronze 5 and now I'm Gold 1 mostly by just playing Veigar as an ADC or APC(Whatever you want to call it). It's borderline retarded how broken it is.

GlîtchyMay 8, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Ziggs is trash to be honest compared to Veigar. Once you get a kill it's pretty much game over for their bot lane. I started this season in Bronze 5 and now I'm Gold 1 mostly by just playing Veigar as an ADC or APC(Whatever you want to call it). It's borderline retarded how broken it is.

I primarily did poorly because our jg kept waiting to gank until I was almost dead, cause apparently scuttle is more important than preventing Ashe from getting fed