Since Riot Repertoir thinks Rengar is in an OP state, how should we nerf him?

darkdill·Jan 8, 2016·3 votes·1,603 views

Here's a post where you can ask questions about the stuff I've worked on, and I'll try to answer.

To quote him, "I think it's almost embarrassing that Rengar exists in his current form".

Not only does his stealth let him easily get on top of an ADC, but he can pretty much one-hit-kill them with a Ferocity Q crit. After that, he either kills one other player before dying, or at least severely damages them. Complete and utter anti-fun when you're facing him.

Lets nerf him, okay? Post what you think needs to happen to him.

13 Comments

Blue Collar BearJan 9, 20162 votes

I also like the idea of him as more of a fighter than an assassin.

I think removing the stealth would be integral to changing the way he functions, as well as the enhanced jump range from no bush. Why not allow a certain amount of short ranged jumps? It would be an interesting way for him to get around in fights.

I also really like the idea of a fear on his W.

darkdillJan 8, 20161 votes

My thoughts: Activating Rengar's ultimate causes a sound effect that can be heard by the entire enemy team, akin to Sion's ultimate. There, no surprises, and it's harder to snowball as him.

Either that, or his Ferocity Q needs to be changed so the extra damage is a DoT effect, not burst. There, he can't insta-kill you as easily (if at all).

MunchCrunchLunchJan 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

My thoughts: Activating Rengar's ultimate causes a sound effect that can be heard by the entire enemy team, akin to Sion's ultimate. There, no surprises, and it's harder to snowball as him.

Either that, or his Ferocity Q needs to be changed so the extra damage is a DoT effect, not burst. There, he can't insta-kill you as easily (if at all).

except that you can see sion coming. even if rengar did a global sound I doubt its enough. when you have 5 people on the map. that could be anywhere. idk maybe louder the closer you are to him?

PyrodiniumJan 14, 20161 votes

I am with the others on just removing the stealth part on Thrill of the Hunt. Replacing it with a powerful Movement Speed boost (and maybe buffing the hunter-vision range) would preserve the hunting thematic and remove the 'jump from stealth and burst-kill' that is his main problem.

Skrillex12354Jan 9, 20161 votes

Remove the stealth, increase the ults jump range by 300 units. Its stupid for an assassin to have stealth with a kit as overloaded as rengars. It works on eve since you fall off super hard and on twitch its fine because of his kit plus how long he takes to get scaling. Not to mention neither of those champs have such a large gap closer. Especially with the mastery changes rengar can remain very, very healthy :^) through his clears so he can get in early ganks. item 3154

1 800 MID LANEJan 11, 20161 votes

Eve's also isn't true stealth, if I recall.

OurLestradeJan 9, 20161 votes

The issue for me is that he shouldn't have been an assassin in the first place. I always imagined him as a bulky fighter that goes toe to toe with dangerous prey, not a wimpy assassin that aims for the weakest and blows them up :P

Rengar Top LaneJan 9, 20161 votes

Sion is a tank with a ton of cc and Rengar is a squishy with one job (kill the adc/apc). Sion has no reason to be a stealthy, surprise champion that goes for squishy targets first. With Sion, you can q, e, and r to peel, initiate, or catch someone. Rengar is just ult snare->follow-up/kill or ult->go for one shot. If he fails, he's dead or has to try running away. Sion can fail with ult, but still be useful with more cc and tankiness.

Why are we even comparing these two champions in the first place? They are two different classes of champions (tank | assassin). Sion's global sound was probably added to fit his theme. Rengar's stealth/low sound in background fits his theme.

Skrillex12354Jan 9, 20161 votes

rengar still has cc and it's idiotic to initiate with rengar in most cases.

the problem is most assassins take longer than 0.12 seconds to kill you and aren't stealthed + most have counter play / a point where they are weak. rengar can blow up the mid or adc extremely quickly while stealthed. The point isn't purely sion, that's just a comparison of similar long range initiation skills.

You can't say rengar is a well designed champion honestly

Rengar Top LaneJan 11, 20162 votes

{quoted}

rengar still has cc and it's idiotic to initiate with rengar in most cases.

the problem is most assassins take longer than 0.12 seconds to kill you and aren't stealthed + most have counter play / a point where they are weak. rengar can blow up the mid or adc extremely quickly while stealthed. The point isn't purely sion, that's just a comparison of similar long range initiation skills.

You can't say rengar is a well designed champion honestly

Rengar has very limited cc. It's either a slow or a root. Choosing a root prevents you from your steroids on q and heal on w. Sion has three cc's, two of them which are hard cc and one is a slow. Smart of you to add "in most cases" because you're wrong in other cases. Ex: having an ori on team.

Feast or famine isn't a great design, but doesn't give any reasons to destroying his ultimate to give the enemy team a chance to be punished for their mistakes (ex: over-extended enemy bot lane; solo farming adc; flashless mid). Add a global roar to him and everyone starts running towards their nexus. It's been said before. What hunter lets their prey know he's coming.

If you remove his true vision, how are you going to compensate Rengar mains? Same for stealth, ms boost. What are you going to do to compensate for destroying his previous playstyle?

CoolKnightSTJan 9, 20161 votes

I think it will be hard to nerf him properly when their is so much side power build into his kit. To be honnest riot should first decide if they want to keep supporting his toplane playstyle. If they ignore that one it would be a lot easyer to ballance rengar in the jungle.

kaykalosJan 11, 20161 votes

Dont pick adc on your team and anything is fine with rengar, but y i forgot when vayne was op at tank/fighter/jugg meta riot didnt something, pls riot treat rengar at adc meta like u treated vayne at tank/fighter meta

xMückeleApr 14, 20161 votes

I don't really understand your problems with Kittycat and his kit.. Ofc a fed Rengo is a bad thing for every Adc but wait, what happened that he is fed? Right someone of your team fed him! Should we nerf Zed, Kha zix, Fizz and so on too, just because they can "one shot" a carry when they are fed? Rengars Ult is part of his kit and even the stealth isn't really a so big problem. Why don't they play him everytime in the LCS when he's so OP? Because experienced players can counter him easily, and with the increased range of the "!" which is so terrifying for you, a Rengar can't even Flash jump, that you can't see the "!". To counter a Rengar is pretty easy, but I'm still playing him often, because only in 1 of 10 games the enemy team just even try to counter him.

And for the Adcmains(I don't really want to say how to counter, cause it would ruin my fun with Rengar) here are just a few thinks what you should think about: Why do you think, the bloodthirster has a shield, deathsdance has bleeding dmg, I just heard pink wards just look beautifull and red trinkets are at lvl9 also very amazing, why attackspeed shoes when you could(! I told you if you COULD !) skip these[Q is an aa and I thought there were shoes which are a wonder vs aa based champs(10% less dmg!!!)], and last but not least, why are there adcs with dodge skills? Even when your an Adc, you just have 1(!!) job when you see the "!". Surrive the first impact and you are almost safe, and if your not, where is your support/team?

If a Rengar ISN'T fed, he needs much more time to get his items, so if you see they have a Rengar in their team, maybe stay safe? Not alone? Dont push? And if your playing adc and he's fed...go to the next corner of your room, stay there with your face towards the wall and say 5 times: He told me to not feed him. You don't need to watch your game, i don't think you will play really much and hey, a grey screen is also something beautifull ;)