@Riot: What are your thoughts on skillshot heals?

darkdill··5 votes·2,881 views

Imagine we made a new support Champion who had a heal-on-ally ability that's basically a skillshot. Pretty much all ally heals are direct-target or, in Bard's case, something your ally can easily access. Same with shield-on-ally effects (Lux is an exception).

Would skillshot heals be an interesting way to create new gameplay, or would they just be frustration factories?

32 Comments

RiotMeddler7 votes

Skillshot heals end up being stronger out of combat (where you can just have your ally stand still, which is effective but dull/annoying) than in combat (where they're a mixture of both interesting and frustrating as your ally dodges helpful effects unintentionally). Wouldn't do a straight skill shot heal as a result. A skillshot that, if it damaged an enemy champion, could then heal your allies in some way (e.g. missile that on enemy champ hit boomerangs back healing allies) by contrast might work, especially if the return speed was slow enough allies could react to it, putting themselves in its path.

Spaceman5pff2 votes

Right, didn't ezreal W used to heal allies by the same AP ratio it damaged enemies?

Ratbert1 votes

And they removed it. There's probably a reason behind this.

Lovely Pants1 votes

Well Ez's original W is maybe the most overloaded ability that has ever existed in the game, so it might not be the best place to look at the effect of such a heal alone.

But yeah, I think we've explored why it doesn't work sufficiently.

Spaceman5pff1 votes

idk i was just asking.. not trying to challenge the choice

RiotMeddler4 votes

It did. Making a skill where you get some benefit out of combat, more in combat, would also be a softer way of rewarding the more interesting, engaging use. I'd expect making the enemy engagement a requirement to be the most successful approach though, since it avoids the out of combat issues entirely.

In terms of why that was taken off Ezreal, that was before my time at Riot. My understanding though is that the primary reason behind the removal was just that Ezreal W did far too much at the time (damage, heal, enemy AS slow, allied AS boost).

Dominick Destine2 votes

{quoted}

In terms of why that was taken off Ezreal, that was before my time at Riot.

Morello-sama <3

Thryale1 votes

NMST to be more precise.

Spaceman5pff1 votes

That is uh.... alot.. I didn't realize it did all of those things at once! I thought the attack speed modifiers replaced the heal but wow was I wrong

Neamean4 votes

T-T This just reminded me of Karma healing fan. I miss it so much.

Thryale1 votes

I loved her healing fan. felt so awesome to swing a team fight by almost 1k hp. (yer tank goes in and is dropped to half hp, you drop a shield, about 500-600hp, and mantra Q, about 400-500hp depending on their %missing)

Birefringence1 votes

I was curious as to why Riot didn't decide to take that route with Soraka when she needs to get health back. It would give her insentive to be invested in trades rather than 1000 units away as some people complain. Though, I leave that up to Riot, I just hope you don't decide to nerf her into the ground at a later date.. item 3070

Thryale1 votes

really? I was told the reason why they took it off of him was because it was because it lead to "sub-optimal choices" since you'd never get to fully utilize both the heal and damage which "left the player being forced to choose between the heal OR the damage" which was a "bad" thing apparantly. :/

(I'm not making this up, I'd totally dig up the post, but it's been almost 5 years now and the board move has made it almost impossible to find. :( soz)

CaptnJakSparrow1 votes

{quoted}

It did. Making a skill where you get some benefit out of combat, more in combat, would also be a softer way of rewarding the more interesting, engaging use. I'd expect making the enemy engagement a requirement to be the most successful approach though, since it avoids the out of combat issues entirely.

In terms of why that was taken off Ezreal, that was before my time at Riot. My understanding though is that the primary reason behind the removal was just that Ezreal W did far too much at the time (damage, heal, enemy AS slow, allied AS boost).

His W made team fights largely one sided in his favor. Ez built AP. Pressed W in middle of team fight to heal his team for around 500-800 + making all of his allies attack faster while doing the exact opposite to enemy team. It was really stupid to play against.

The Sword Saint2 votes

Heads up meddler, there's some sona mains out for your head right now on these boards. They made an incredibly long and hostile thread full of baseless assumptions and forcing words into your mouth, trying to say that you claimed you were going to 'delete sona'.

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/U1T8kqvI-meddler-threatens-to-delete-sona-long-post

Weathered1 votes

Sounds awesome. Taric rework anyone? (wink wink)

darkdill1 votes

That could definitely work.

WarWork2 votes

How would it be different between a skill shot heal out of combat and Soraka now?

Thryale1 votes

Or, now this might sound crazy, a skill shot that did damage to only enemy champions(not minions) and lowered their atk spd and healed allies(and raised their atk spd) on a champ who's primary focus is being all about skill shots and positional mastery? Make it scale off AP to contrast the ad ratio on his other skill shot so the player can choose whether he wants to focus more on auto attacks or back line sniping.

(hint: for those of you who don't get the sarcasm/irony, I'm talking about Ezreal's original W)

Erockandroll1 votes

To what point or Purpose? Cause I can't see any good coming out of it, if a heal was made a skill shot for simply being a skill shot.

One interesting thought though, would be to give it a dual effect depending on whether it hit an ally or enemy. Those dual effects give the champ more options, while the ability remaining relatively balanced, since it be affected by the same mana cost and cooldown.

darkdill1 votes

That's one way to do it. Affects the first Champion struck, and applies an effect depending on whether it's ally or enemy.

Fizz Wukong1 votes

Same thing I was thinking, skill shot would be a stun if it hits a champion, but a heal if it hits an ally. Would need to be like Ezreal skill shot that ignores minions, but unlike Ezreal, stops at the first champion hit.

Lovely Pants1 votes

Ezreal's W did actually heal allies in the initial form of the skill.

I believe what a Rioter said about it was that it was such a contradictory effect most of the time that it never felt satisfying to use.

Quepha1 votes

I don't really like it. Your allies aren't trying to dodge your heal so there's no real point to making it into one. Support abilities that depend on your allies to make them work, like grabbing Thresh lantern, can be incredibly frustrating for the support when their allies don't properly use the abilities. I don't see a good reason to make an ability have that kind of frustration attached to it unless it's completely necessary for it.

Xicashina1 votes

Ya thats probably the entire most frustrating part of Lux's W as an example. I can't count the number of times allies have dashed away from my w only to blame me for "missing it".

LostFr0st1 votes

Pretty sure they would be frustration factories... part of the reason I never liked upgrading swindler's orb into orb of trust during the Bilgewater event [zombie-nunu-bummed] unless I had multiple slow/dashless champs on my team.

-LostFr0st

Alakalzam1 votes

Bad idea. It'd be pretty much impossible to use in most team fights and there's already enough everyone needs to keep track of without worrying about having to dodge your own team's skillshots so the right person gets hit with the ability.

Mecha MaIphite1 votes

Well Lux already has a skillshot shield. The heal could be watered down a bit for the ability to go through units, so it wouldn't be frustrating to use in a teamfight when everyone's all jumbled up.

Spaceman5pff1 votes

It works with a shield I think because shield aren't useful out of combat. I can't think of a way to elaborate on this well. Hopefully u get what im getting at here

Lovely Pants1 votes

I don't think a true skill shot heal would ever feel good, since as others have pointed out, your allies aren't trying to dodge you. It's confusing, and the worst case scenarios are really frustrating since (if you're anything like me) you'll occasionally uselessly dodge harmless ally skillshots out of reflex.

Maybe you could revisit the idea of positioning based healing from a different angle if you wanted to introduce a heal with innate counterplay. Just spitballin', but think of something like a reverse Fiddle Drain or a Karma tether which an opponent could body-block to interrupt might have some more satisfying gameplay. Even then, not so certain on the satisfaction player's side. I don't think you'd want to primarily define a champion around such an ability, for example.

Fizz Wukong1 votes

I think a skill shot heals/shields would be a "mager" [slayer-jinx-wink] benefit. Allowing for accurate players to heal their teammates from 800 - 1200 range. old Ezreal Lux

Is there range of use. All heals and shields (except Lux' shield) happen at close range, by making it a skill shot, you can save a teammate from a much safer distance as with Lux' shield, Soraka ult, Thresh lantern, Bard shrine and old Ezreal heal.

Pika3101 votes

{quoted}

Imagine we made a new support Champion who had a heal-on-ally ability that's basically a skillshot. Pretty much all ally heals are direct-target or, in Bard's case, something your ally can easily access.

Sona's is not a direct target, she literally has zero control over who it chooses. It's predetermined.

Just thought I'd point that out. Carry on.

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