Does Darius really need a heal?

Noraver·Dec 1, 2016·5 votes·1,073 views

Back when Darius got his rework, it was the age of ranged top laners like Quinn, Kennen, Jayce, etc. People complained that he couldn't keep up in lane against them, so he received a heal on his Q.

Is there really a need for him to have this heal still? In team fights, the heal seems a little excessive, and he's been seeing more and more play recently. Before you nerf his strengths like his damage and team-fight stomp (Like he's chosen for), I think it might be best to just be rid of the heal instead. He doesn't need that heal to be competitive in top lane these days; it just make him a literal lane-ender if he gets ahead by a small margin.

29 Comments

Critmaster GarenDec 1, 20167 votes

{quoted}

Back when Darius got his rework, it was the age of ranged top laners like Quinn, Kennen, Jayce, etc.

you mean just like right now?

CerealBoxOfDoomDec 1, 20165 votes

he was shit before he got a heal

he is less shit now that he has a heal

yes he does need a heal though there are equally or more frustrating alternatives.

l Helios lDec 1, 20163 votes

Yorick ? Illaoi ? Chogath ? DrMundo ? Maokai ? Renekton ? Trundle ? Tryndamere ? Nasus ? Irelia ? Fiora ?

Top lane, land of sustain.

In addition, Q heal is fully dodgeable.

KilanostDec 1, 20161 votes

all of those except irelia/tryn are either aa range (a risk) or part of their ult (decreasing its sustained usefulness) so I feel like the dodgeable q makes sense considering it can be done at a distance. I think my biggest issue with the heal on decimate is that it can heal for so much esp when multiple people get hit like during a gank. Its why I dont really gank darius lanes until I have the items to deal with his dmg/ult.

But I do have to say that there is definitely something a little overly strong about Darius's early lane phase

l Helios lDec 1, 20162 votes

Thing is, his heal is what allows him to be aggressive. Without it, Darius couldn't be half as aggressive as he is. Remove the heal, and Darius can't be as aggressive because normal trades can become life-threatening ones

Fieryfury3Dec 2, 20161 votes

it is pretty ridiculous for him to be able to damn near 1v5 with just black cleaver and all tank items after when he is fed just because he can heal and give him enough time to keep hitting stacks. Someone that tanky should not be able to put out that much damage. Even if you do kill him it takes so long to do it that the rest of his team can get there by the time he is dead. After you already wasted so many spells just to kill him there is almost no chance of winning a team fight. If he is with his team then gg because you can no longer focus him unless your adc is fed enough to shred him down and when you don't he just does a ton of constant damage that gets hard to dodge when he has black cleaver.

l Helios lDec 2, 20162 votes

I mean... Illaoi can do worse much faster. Darius needs Noxian Might to sweep, illaoi just needs r. Any situation where you'd play dairus, illaoi is 15x better.

Fieryfury3Dec 2, 20161 votes

She might be able, so in that case nerf both of them

l Helios lDec 2, 20161 votes

If you genuinely believe that Darius is capable of 1v5, then the enemy team is a bunch of potatoes from Wood V.

The WHOLE POINT of juggernauts is tankiness with a lot of circumstantial damage. Late game Darius is shit without Noxian Might. Garen is shit damage unless you're the villain. Illaoi damage is shit if you dodge tentacles. Yorick damage is pretty damn solid actually, but he doesn't do much in full team fights. Volibear damage is shit outside of early game and W.

If half the people in this game spent their time getting better and less time whining, they'd all be gold and plat by now. >.>

Fieryfury3Dec 2, 20161 votes

I don't believe he is capable of 1v5 alone. He can usually get atleast 1 or 2 kills during a 1v5 though. That isn't the point though, it's that if he is capable of doing that 1v5, how is that gonna turn out in a 5v5. Even IF he gets caught out he can heal so much over and over that it becomes a burden to deal with him and his team almost always has enough time to come turn the 1v5 into a 5v5 and guess what, he is still almost at full health after that. He becomes damn near unstoppable because you can't waste abilities on him or you lose the teamfight, yet if you don't he will more than likely just outdamage you over time. Yeah they have good damage in the right circumstance. Which isn't hard to get into, Start a teamfight anywhere around a couple walls. There's illaois damage and what happens when you're melee. You just run away and let your team get slaughtered for the next few seconds? A tank or "juggernaut" shouldn't also consistently have near the highest damage in the game just because you can't kill them on account of their healing.

l Helios lDec 2, 20161 votes

item 3123 item 3165 item 3033

What healing? Honestly, it's like people forget those exist.

Regardless, it would seem you have no knowledge of the champion beyond you being curbstomped in the past by Darius players. There's nothing OP about the champion late game. If anything is overtuned, it's his laning, and even then that's more the result of other laners being weak and because so much of the weight of the game is invested in the early game. It only makes sense that a lane dominant champion like Darius would be a solid pick, plus he has some usefulness in transitioning a lead early to a strength later in the game.

WoonStruckDec 2, 20163 votes

Do ADCs really need lifesteal?

Blue Collar BearDec 1, 20162 votes

Sustain and/or shields is a hallmark of Juggernauts. How would you compensate him for losing an integral part of his class?

Swiftstrike4Dec 1, 20162 votes

If he had no heal he would have a really hard time in the top lane. The top laners need some type of sustain.

KilanostDec 1, 20161 votes

Isn't this why grasp exists?

l Helios lDec 1, 20165 votes

Pretty hard to utilize grasp against people like Quinn and Kennen

KilanostDec 1, 20163 votes

In that lane are you really hitting them with decimate anyway? Probably not. You're hugging your tower praying to whatever deity you may be loyal to that you'll be able to get some of the cs that is crashing into your turret until you get enough tank items + level 6 to go all in on them and snuff out their obnoxious little lives.

l Helios lDec 1, 20163 votes

Decimate reliability > grasp reliability. That was my point.

Swiftstrike4Dec 2, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Isn't this why grasp exists?

Grasp's heal has continue to be nerfed. It isn't really that strong anymore. Most top laners run it anyways but if Darius lacked a heal in the top lane he would still be at a disadvantage since most top laners have a heal in their kit.

He needs the heal to be an effective top laner. There are other things about his kit that could change, but without the heal he would be easily outclassed by other melee's tops.

Purple DeathDec 1, 20162 votes

Its counterplay-able so I think it's fine. If they take it away he gets kited into oblivion. Useless again gg.

23382622_DELDec 1, 20162 votes

People always forget about the executioner... always

five oh tree Dec 1, 20161 votes

I mean, if you want to take the heal away, you'll have to be ready for the compensation buffs he'd receive, because his w/r would be like 45% without the heal. He relies on it a lot. Without it, he'd be like Nasus before Nasus's ult was changed; he'd get kited to death and be unable to do anything at all. His damage wouldn't even matter.

AhristocatsDec 1, 20161 votes

the heal is useless most of the time

KilanostDec 1, 20161 votes

item 3123

RalanrDec 1, 20161 votes

Juggernauts are known for their sustain.

Big LincolnDec 1, 20161 votes

yes he does

KilanostDec 1, 20161 votes

item 3123

Dr DormidonDec 2, 20161 votes

As Darius main I'd like to say he doesnt rly need a heal. The problem is small, really small aoe on his Q so he actually doesnt really benefit from this feature. You know if we could get some other mechanic in exchange

Fieryfury3Dec 4, 20161 votes

well I do buy those when I play a champ that benefits from them. I always try to get my adc/apc to buy it but if they don't I will. I just think it's annoying because of the combination of damage and tankiness together. All it takes is damage item, usually black cleaver, and it becomes extremely hard to fight him even 2v1 depending on the champions involved.