Garen: Nerfed for being good when you're beating him

Noraver·Sep 16, 2015·102 votes·6,605 views

ahem Lemme just go have children and send them off to college while I wait for this stun to fade...

Funny how you get punished for doing well against her, yet she doesn't receive any nerfs. Honestly, her stun should disappear when you hit the same % of health, so she can't burst you from 90% to zero because a creep touched her once. You know, because then you'd be on equal fighting ground. Like the name Equilibrium Strike implies.

is k tho garen too stronk irelia immune to nerfs because of that stupid meme

108 Comments

Toxic SamuraiSep 16, 201571 votes

I support. Gut Irelia 2015. Toxic kit that makes you lose for being ahead.

BenParadoxSep 16, 20159 votes

Garen got nerfed because he is ridiculous in his current state. He can just run up to you, hit E, and then ult you, even under a turret. While Irelia is a problem as well, Garen needed and probably still needs more nerfs. In my opinion, he really needs is a rework to give him some form of counterplay, but since he just got reworked, nerfs will have to do. Also, Irelia is on the rework list, so things will hopefully be better then. Unless it ends up like Ryze's, Tristana's, or Garen's reworks, in which case it will not help.

BTW on a slightly unrelated note, I'm fine with the Skarner and Darius reworks, and while I think Mordekaiser still needs some work and a new ultimate, his rework was a step in the right direction. Except for the dragon ghost and the third Q strike.

I Main SwainSep 17, 201525 votes

you talk as if irelia cant just walk up to you, stun you, and shrek you

Ramza ParadiseSep 17, 20153 votes

except she can. i'm not saying irelia is op, she's just frustrating to play against no doubt.

i was playing mid and helped my top laner kill the jungler, a full hp irelia comes in and bursts me down with only sheen + phage because I was stunned for so long. was so confused because I didn't think i met the hp requirement, it's a horribly designed mechanic

StephenizgodSep 17, 20152 votes

Garen didnt get reworked! His kit was weakened and true damage was added to his ult... that is all... btw 99% of people who complain about Garen only do it because they think he is magically doing more damage to them then before the "rework"... well guess what! if he is kickin your ass all game then chances are pretty high you are not the Villain therefore he is not doing true damage! Oh and now even if you are kickin his ass then you are still not the Villain and he is still not doing true damage!!! OMG!!! I bet i blew your mind.... Idk how many times ive had to explain that his E could always crit or his ult damage wasnt changed or that his Q silence was nerfed or that his W use to have tenacity and helluva lot more bonus resistances...

Edit: on a side note garen is a fighter first and a tank second, so he is actually doing exactly as intended.

HazareSep 17, 20152 votes

Except, Garen truly IS dealing more damage and on a MUCH MUCH more ridiculous scale than before. I don't enjoy playing a tank, getting bumrushed by Garen 2-3 times (Hey lol, low CD and no ressource, fun fun fun) and then ulted for 1.4k when I'm at 3.1k max HP. He's a fighter, not a "LOL YOU'RE DEAD IF EVER HIT 40% HP" type of guy. Assassins should have that type of ability, not a freaking "Juggernaut".

StephenizgodSep 17, 20151 votes

Only if you are the Villain... And Garen is doing better now then before because of the new juggernaut items. He synergizes too well with them but that can be said about a lot of champions, i mean Vayne and BotRK is fucking ridiculous... Fiora, Xin, Ekko, Fizz, Lee, Irelia, Jax, Yi, Nidalee, Pantheon, Riven, Vi, and Yasuo are all Fighters that can and often do instantly pop someone...

GostreiverSep 17, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Only if you are the Villain... And Garen is doing better now then before because of the new juggernaut items. He synergizes too well with them but that can be said about a lot of champions, i mean Vayne and BotRK is fucking ridiculous... Fiora, Xin, Ekko, Fizz, Lee, Irelia, Jax, Yi, Nidalee, Pantheon, Riven, Vi, and Yasuo are all Fighters that can and often do instantly pop someone...

It's true , almost any "fighter/ assassin" can pop someone Fast as hell, and lower elo people sure they are going to get upset and come cry on the forums about it. But Garen being able to turret dive, take Multiple turret shots, Spin for true damage and then ult someone under tower completely 100-0 them. Wether it is the ADC or the Tank. Then he can Q out with a quick sprint just as good as the summoner ability "Ghost" and Instantly start regening huge portions of his health, so that he doesn't even have to back after such a greedy decision.

Is that no different than he was before the Juggernaut patch? Its fucking broken, maybe it was before too but it is undeniable now. Except to Garen mains who want to push 2 buttons the whole game and still complain about things Garen does and the "nerfs". He is an Automatic Champion. Fisher Price's My first champion. His ability rotation is no different than Katarina.. the difference is all the Armor, Health, Magic resist True damage, Health regen and escape. That is the EXACT definition of Imbalance

StephenizgodSep 17, 20151 votes

Garen could always do that!!! Thats what im trying to say.... the only difference is you needed to build tanky. Btw Garen's Q gives him 30% MS for 1.5 seconds, Ghost gives 27% MS for 10 seconds and ignores unit collision... So its not really just as good, i mean if it gave the ability to ignore unit collision id say it was.

Btw the more simple a champion is, the easier it is to deal with them. If you complain they are too simple then its because you don't know how to deal with them. The best way to deal with Garen is to not get hit by his Q, and you basically win the trade. If you are the Villain then run away, his Q has an 8 secod CD so if you can stop it (which you can easily with any form of CC) then you are pretty much home free unless he has Dead Man's Plate, but thats really a problem with that item now isnt it? Poking him to remove his passive during laning phase is how you bully him, if he cant regen then he will lose most trades. They lowered his silence duration and his E's damage early to mid game so he is a bit weaker ability-wise.

Does Garen need nerfs? Yes his ult should not do true damage based off the targets missing health. His ult doesnt make sense anyways as it has nothing to do with Justice, its more like picking on the weak... but most of the issue is Garen's synergy with Dead Mans, Steraks, and Black Cleaver. But Garen is not OP he is a noob stomper, no one knows what to do and they panic when they see him coming. He is actually quite easy to shut down if you know what to do, and i have faced many a person who does.

HazareSep 18, 20151 votes

Ghost has a Cool down of what, 4 minutes? What's the Cool down of Garen's Q again?... Does Ghost Silence, remove Slows and deal ALOT of damage too? Also, no offense meant, but you can't just run away from Garen in middle of a teamfight. Do you even understand the implications of what that would do to your team if you're the tank? He's going to kill you within 6 seconds of the engage or you can wait until all your lanes are completely pushed. There's no way that the "Run away" excuse is actually legitimate. It's the same as saying "Well, Akali's coming she's 12-0, but it's okay, if she doesn't catch up to you she's not going to kill you, thus she's completely fine even if fed to hell." Doesn't work that way. When the only "counter play" to something is "Run the hell away" there's a MAJOR flaw somewhere.

purplefalconSep 17, 20152 votes

Irelias fine where she is , absolutely perfect , almost 50% even winrate , thats balance.

purplefalconSep 17, 20152 votes

shes entirely cooldown reliant , micro manage enemy cooldowns or fail at league

Hey Im WillSep 17, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Irelias fine where she is , absolutely perfect , almost 50% even winrate , thats balance.

Win rate is not necessarily the best indicator to whether or not a champion is balanced or not.

Best Jinx OCESep 17, 20158 votes

KogMaw Zyra Veigar Vayne Varus XinZhao Warwick Zed Trundle Tryndamere TahmKench Sion Shyvana Riven Rammus Poppy Quinn Olaf Nidalee Mordekaiser Malzahar Lissandra LeeSin Karthus Jinx Jax JarvanIV Gragas Gnar Galio Fizz Fiora Evelynn Elise Ekko DrMundo Darius Amumu Annie Gangplank Leblanc Leona Pantheon Nasus Caitlyn Renekton Sejuani Graves MonkeyKing Yorick Yasuo Urgot Velkoz Taric Sona Singed Shaco Rengar Katarina Karma Kalista Annie Anivia

And then there's these Champions, some with % or flat bonuses to reduce damage which counters your advantage multiplicatively, some who gain attack speed or % fury bonuses on losing HP or others that gain damage and there are even some that killing is detrimental to your damage like Anivia or who heal more for being low HP or have % HP damage massively reducing cost efficacy of HP or others that have % missing HP executes which counter HP stackings effectiveness hugely or counters others who gain things out of fighting on low HP.

Garen has counter to HP stacking; Armor stacking: using skills: counters to harassing him through his % heal: counters to not harassing him through his stat gains: punishes isolated Champions: 1% of targets max HP as True dmg which punishes Champs with HP and also punishes them for having secured kills along with his ult now being true damage which itself punishes HP and armor too along with being against one securing kills and Irelia turning around and stunning you because you're higher health is OP, when her only other real counter ability is having a bit more tenacity for when there are multiple enemies around and an ultimate that lets her heal more for the more enemies it hits?

Garen has 5 billion ways to punish people for being ahead and Irelia has 1 and there are plenty of other champs that do it worse:

Olaf Karma KogMaw Sion Tryndamere Karthus DrMundo

Why are you picking on Irelia? =c

Garen got massive stats against you after you killed him; 1% of your max HP per spin of his E and for his auto's, True damage on his ultimate - versus a Stun on you for having more HP and on like an 8 second cooldown.

It was legit worth dying to your lane opponent intentionally just to secure the stats, just like it is worth taking damage to be able to stun someone but barely ever will it be more than a 300 damage combo on you - as opposed to an ultimate that now ignores your 42ish to 50MR so has effectively increased by 25% and is roughly 200 plus like a 3rd of their missing HP so against like a 1200 HP Irelia early game that's potentially a 500 damage execute where before he would have had to burst you down an extra 25% which could have resulted in a different outcome entirely plus he has his 1% max HP damage per spin and auto to get you there even faster - all because you smashed him in lane lmao.

Balanced Champ yeah dies intentionally to beat you - makes sense - dying for 25% bonus damage and 1% true damage - which is even more massive later in the game versus 1-2 second stun which doesn't work when you are winning the fights or bullying them... which means it's basically counter productive to be winning and Garen gets bonuses for losing.

Irelia: Punished for winning - rewarded for losing:

Garen: Wins by dying.

L. M. A. O.

Garen be like: "I died to my lane opponent gaining 100% magic penetration on my ultimate and a mini blade of the ruined king":

http://apollo-na-uploads.s3.amazonaws.com/1442496658/1912-so-much-win.jpg

Irelia be like: "I'm losing fights so I can stun for 1-2 seconds which is like 1 auto attack with 1.0 attack speed for like 100 damage - for a chunk of mana on an 8 second cooldown so I have some form of a method to trade back with someone who's gotten the jump on me or is out-trading me: in meleeish range as a single target stun; or: I'm winning fights - there goes my stun": http://apollo-na-uploads.s3.amazonaws.com/1442496747/fry.png

"Better nerf Irelia".

stuartk11Sep 16, 20157 votes

So what you're saying is....

Better nerf Irelia.

warpenguin555Sep 16, 20157 votes

atleast the juggernauts took some of her play time. Shes still op though

Bouncemaster ZacSep 16, 20156 votes

The best part is that it frequently stuns when in shouldn't. If you want proof positive that it stuns even when you aren't at higher % hp: have irelia at full and an enemy at full. They are both undeniably at 100%. Irelia presses e and... oh look, it stunned someone who isn't at a higher % hp than her. Funny thing, that.

UberAffeSep 16, 201518 votes

read the ability description. If the enemy has equal or greater % health they will get stunned.

still agree its stupid but it is working correctly.

JefftiffySep 16, 20155 votes

{quoted}

read the ability description. If the enemy has equal or greater % health they will get stunned.

still agree its stupid but it is working correctly.

No it isn't. Regardless of what he said. Irelia often stuns people with lower percentages of health because the game doesn't recognize the changes fast enough when she goes in. It happens to me all the time with Gnar. I burst her and she drops lower than me. She Q W AA which drops me lower then Es and stuns me anyways. I'm sorry but I'm at 25% hp she's at 50% there is literally a distinct difference. I think the game just sucks at updating her stun and that's what makes her so infuriating to play against.

UberAffeSep 16, 20152 votes

I've never experienced that, but if its happening it is a bug and should be reported instead of just complained about.

steelblackskySep 16, 20152 votes

turn off clientside prediction. game will be less smooth but you wont be baited by seeing what the client expected over what did happen in what order.

Bouncemaster ZacSep 16, 20152 votes

{quoted}

read the ability description. If the enemy has equal or greater % health they will get stunned.

still agree its stupid but it is working correctly.

Last I looked it only said greater %.

Fear PopoSep 16, 20157 votes

ACTIVE: Irelia pierces the target enemy, dealing them magic damage and Slow icon slowing them by 60% for a short duration. If her current health percentage is equal to or less than her target's, she Stun icon stuns them instead.

This is how it's been worded for many years.

Slamurai JackSep 17, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fear Popo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mHAoE8NI,comment-id=0001000000010000,timestamp=2015-09-16T21:11:11.134+0000)

ACTIVE: Irelia pierces the target enemy, dealing them magic damage and Slow icon slowing them by 60% for a short duration. If her current health percentage is equal to or less than her target's, she Stun icon stuns them instead.

This is how it's been worded for many years.

That's how it's worded on the League Wiki. But in the game itself, it says "Irelia pierces her target, dealing magic damage and slowing the target by 60% for 1-2 seconds. If the target has a higher health % than Irelia, she stuns the target for the duration instead."

Nowhere in game does it tell you that being at equal health will lead to you being stunned.

FastAsHeckSep 17, 20151 votes

tooltips in general are a joke. Darius doesnt even mention the heal for example (you could argue that its because its a reworked ability, but its the same with old abilities too, I just thought of his Q). The fact that we cant even see scalings or damage per level etc in the game and we have to use the wiki is ridiculus.

Bouncemaster ZacNov 11, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fear Popo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mHAoE8NI,comment-id=0001000000010000,timestamp=2015-09-16T21:11:11.134+0000)

ACTIVE: Irelia pierces the target enemy, dealing them magic damage and Slow icon slowing them by 60% for a short duration. If her current health percentage is equal to or less than her target's, she Stun icon stuns them instead.

This is how it's been worded for many years.

So I now this is old now, but I just played an Irelia game and I was right. It only says if the target is higher %. Not greater or equal. Greater.

SteelflameSep 16, 20155 votes

I don't agree to that. But it should be based on how big a difference it is based on %hp. at the same %hp, it is a .5 no matter what rank, but max scales with rank to 1-2 seconds for maximum duration. Lets just say 25% for max duration stun. Now, she gets a powerful stun when moderately far behind in hp, but otherwise she just gets a disruption.

AuryielSep 16, 20154 votes

Are people really only NOW catching onto the fact that Irelia needs a complete rework?

I really hope they pull a Gragas on her and say fuck off, she shouldn't even be a bruiser in the first place, let's make her thematic and gameplay watch better.

Baby GhoulSep 17, 20154 votes

Irelia item 3078 item 3111 item 3153

Bad Irelia play isn't punished because of how strong her spike is with Trinity Force. I've regularly seen Irelias go 0/4 in lane, which is a death sentence for most top laners. E.X. they need to start building tanky, and being farm bots. How is it fair that every other top laner gets punished for how they preformed in top lane, but she does not? When she finishes Trinity she can get a double kill out of the blue.

This is on top of the fact that the laning phase for Irelia is not tough. She has built in tenacity, long duration stun that activates when when she has lower health percentage (this specifically leads to a lot of dumb moments when laning against her), gap closer, and heal. It's as if she was made for climbing in solo queue. Her power spike, which is huge, is at such a convenient time in ranked play. She doesn't have as many trade offs, and I don't believe she takes a lot of skill to use.

She does fall off late game, but the fall isn't as dramatic as her rise is, and her early game is not weak.

Since everyone is always complaining Riot releases skins before nerfs. I propose in celebration of the Irelia nerfs, they should create that "Better Nerf Irelia" skin that has been floating around in Skins and Champion Concepts. It's a good opportunity to make fun of that silly meme people still use today, even though she's been the queen of solo queue for this season. FOTMs have come and go, but she's still there. Irelia is way too strong compared to most of her peers.

Jungle Lux GodSep 17, 20154 votes

Garen was nerfed because he does it to a much greater extreme than Irelia does.

Irelia punishes you for getting a small advantage to gain a small advantage. Garen punishes you for getting a moderate advantage to gain a significantly larger advantage.

Remlap1223Sep 16, 20153 votes

I'm hoping that her rework comes out soon.

Until then, better nerf Irelia.

IMMENSE COURAGESep 16, 20153 votes

better nerf irelia

TenSlashTenSep 17, 20153 votes

Keep nerfing these broken juggurnaut champs until we can finally remove focus from them and gut the annoying thresh/vayne combo I keep dealing with when I';m not first pick

somexotherxguySep 16, 20152 votes

Whether or not Irelia needs to be nerfed is a different question but are you really saying she is immune to them? She has only been nerfed which is kind of the main reason for the meme. So don't make it sound like she has been untouched forever because of a meme. When in reality she has only received nerfs.

Photos of GhostsSep 16, 201524 votes

She had been nerfed 3 times in a row in 2012. And then nothing for 2 years, just memes. Then a buff. Then a revert.

somexotherxguySep 16, 20152 votes

I stopped maining irelia around when they nerfed her hiten style and ult CD so i guess i failed to notice the changes that happened in season 4. And then i started keeping up with the patch notes a lot at season 5 so I noticed the nerf. Never even realized she had a huge buff in between so that was my mistake.

AudiomancySep 17, 20157 votes

[{quoted}](name=Photos of Ghosts,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mHAoE8NI,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-09-16T21:07:14.384+0000)

She had been nerfed 3 times in a row in 2012. And then nothing for 2 years, just memes. Then a buff. Then a revert.

Meanwhile Sona gets about 17 nerfs in a single patch.

ShinjusukeSep 17, 20157 votes

Can't hear you over Kha'zix's nerf train over the course of 2 seasons lol

Diananmen SquareSep 17, 20151 votes

Don't forget about that gamebreaking E damage nerf!!!!!!!11!!1one!

bradSep 16, 20152 votes

{quoted}

irelia immune to nerfs because of that stupid meme

>implying u dont realize that irelia has been nerfed almost a billion times and thats the reason why that may may exists in the first place >implying she wont ever get nerfed because of some shitty 4 year old epik meemee

BearricaneSep 16, 20159 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hi lm Brad,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mHAoE8NI,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2015-09-16T21:45:20.528+0000)

>implying u dont realize that irelia has been nerfed almost a billion times and thats the reason why that may may exists in the first place >implying she wont ever get nerfed because of some shitty 4 year old epik meemee

Greentexting somewhere that doesn't have greentext?

That's a paddlin'.

YumaS2AstralSep 16, 201511 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hi lm Brad,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mHAoE8NI,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2015-09-16T21:45:20.528+0000)

>implying u dont realize that irelia has been nerfed almost a billion times and thats the reason why that may may exists in the first place >implying she wont ever get nerfed because of some shitty 4 year old epik meemee

Irelia has actually received less nerfs than a bunch of champions... namely Khazix Sona Rengar Kalista RekSai Azir

Solidair3Sep 17, 20152 votes

Irelia would break if that happened. She would be useless.

The sad fact of the matter is that she needs a complete kit rework so she can be less of a stat check.

ImpossibleGTSep 17, 20152 votes

What? Irelia has a problematic kit that has single-handedly defined who was viable in top lane since Season 1? WHO KNEW?

Oh wait. Everyone did.

HazareSep 17, 20153 votes

Erm... Are you confusing Irelia with Renekton? Renekton was long considered to be the #1 top laner.

GostreiverSep 17, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Erm... Are you confusing Irelia with Renekton? Renekton was long considered to be the #1 top laner.

still is. And yet you still hear nothing but QQ from awful kids with no mechanical skill or understanding, who complain about Riven and Fiora. Renekton still has a massively strong early game and laning phase Titanic hydra and Steraks completely cancel his poor scaling into mid-late game. He can be a God but people dont know how to play. sucks to suck ahah

ImpossibleGTSep 18, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Erm... Are you confusing Irelia with Renekton? Renekton was long considered to be the #1 top laner.

I am not. When she was released, Irelia caused all sorts of problems because she dominated top lane by having literally everything in her kit. It got to the point that Riven was specifically tailored upon release to be "strong enough to compete with Irelia in top lane." We all know how that turned out. Irelia was the bar that all other top laners were compared against, and it created a ridiculous arms race where each new champion had to be strong enough to compete with all the other champions strong enough to beat up on Irelia, namely Riven.

Remember, this was back when Heart of Gold and Philosopher's Stone were still auto buys on top laners. Renekton's lane bullying didn't matter because double gold per 5 items meant enemy tops could miss every CS and still scale to late game stronger than him.

All of this is getting off topic, though. The point is Irelia started a chain reaction by having a kit so perfectly suited to top lane that she pushed out basically everyone else, until she got pushed out in turn by new releases effectively designed to beat her.

HazareSep 18, 20151 votes

Yeah no, you're really confusing Irelia with Renekton HARD. When Irelia came out, she wasn't considered "Godtier" she was on par with Shen. The one that actually set the bar in terms of strength required for Top Lane was the God of The Top Lane for 2 seasons in a row after he came out : Renekton. There was no stopping him. Just none. You could survive top lane, but that's barely it.